MCU Spider-Man Relativistic+ Downgrade

[Propellus]

So, apparently from this scene is the reason why MCU Spidey is scaling to Relativistic+ due to him keeping up with Doctor Strange. But one problem from this is that Strange was clearly holding back and wasn't even going to kill the guy, I mean sure Strange is trying to incapacitate him for the box, but that doesn't mean you have to necessarily go all out just to incapacitate one person. So instead, I suggest changing MCU Spidey's Relativistic+ with Spider-Sense with just "higher with Spider-Sense".


Input and occuring arguments are welcome for debate though.

 

[Lonkitt]

Higher should be safer. His Spider-Sense can let him react and fight faster, but there's not as much evidence in favour of it scaling to guys like Strange or Thanos' speed. Like I said in the general chat, this scene is more impressive on an intelligence basis for Peter rather than any scaling involving stats

I agree with this

 

[Dalesean027]

Pretty sure its there because this feat was performed under astral plane timeframe with his spidey outspeeding stranges grabs with his spider sense

 

[Propellus]

Pretty sure its there because this feat was performed under astral plane timeframe with his spidey outspeeding stranges grabs with his spider sense

Yeah, but again, it's clear that Strange wasn't going all out with him, and the only reason why Spidey managed to "defeat" him was through his own intelligence, which is more of an intelligence feat instead of a reaction speed feat.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah, but again, it's clear that Strange wasn't going all out with him, and the only reason why Spidey managed to "defeat" him was through his own intelligence, which is more of an intelligence feat instead of a reaction speed feat.

??? I'm not talking about anything to do with the fight, strange was clearly holding back then but here this was done under the astral plane timeframe which is slowed down to high hell and Spider-Man's spidey senses are instinctively keeping it away from strange faster than he can grab in a pretty quick timeframe


Relativistic with Spider sense comes from this one instance and has nothing to do with the rest of their fight

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Whats the deal with “Relativistic+ with Spidey sense" anyways? I thought his whole schtick was Spidey sense or am i wrong?

Edit: as in we literally scale almost every street tier to MHS+ off of events that happened later on in the movie that were dependent on Spidey sense when we can actually scale that same Spidey sense to Rel+?

 

[Chariot190]

Eh idk.

You can hold back power as to not kill, but why would you hold back speed? You can do one and not the other. Especially when a handful of the times Spidey outspeed him isn't really in portrayed as strange sandbagging anyway and a few times he's even pretty shocked himself. And strange kinda really wanted that box tbh.

 

[Chariot190]

Also didn't El goblino tag strange too and strange barely had time to react

 

[Propellus]

Eh idk.

You can hold back power as to not kill, but why would you hold back speed? You can do one and not the other.

Power isn't really the only thing that you could hold back, it is possible to hold back speed, otherwise I'd have DCEU Batman scaling to Superman just because he held back in speed or even in general if that was the case.

Also didn't El goblino tag strange too and strange barely had time to react

That's likely an outlier anyways.

 

[Dalesean027]

Also didn't El goblino tag strange too and strange barely had time to react

He like snuck the bombs in the box or something I believe

 

[Chariot190]

Power isn't really the only thing that you could hold back, it is possible to hold back speed, otherwise I'd have DCEU Batman scaling to Superman just because he held back in speed or even in general if that was the case.

Just because he could, doesn't mean he did. Why would he? If strange wanted a box, from Spidey, that could literally end the multiverse because of some brat, and he had the speed to get it back, why in hell would he hold back speed? Not trying to kill the kid is one thing, but assuming he held back speed goes against everything in that scene, from his shock at spideys own speed, to even just the fact that if he could just blitz to get the box, he would 100% do that.

A better example would be The Flash, he pulls punches too, but does he hold back on his speed when said speed can get the job done? Not really.

That's likely an outlier anyways.

If it happened, that would just make it consistent given he and Spidey kinda scale to each other to a degree, that isn't what an outlier is bro

 

[Dalesean027]

Agreed with Chariot on this one like the timeframe of the astral plane aside why would strange hold back trying to grab the box from spider as he's outspeed to an insane dergee by spideys body's reactions with his spider sense

 

[Lonkitt]

Chariot's convinced me as well

 

[Propellus]

Just because he could, doesn't mean he did. Why would he? If strange wanted a box, from Spidey, that could literally end the multiverse because of some brat, and he had the speed to get it back, why in hell would he hold back speed? Not trying to kill the kid is one thing, but assuming he held back speed goes against everything in that scene, from his shock at spideys own speed, to even just the fact that if he could just blitz to get the box, he would 100% do that.

Well, you got me, I suppose this is fair.

A better example would be The Flash, he pulls punches too, but does he hold back on his speed when said speed can get the job done? Not really.

That's completely different context from what I've compared to between Batman and Superman.

If it happened, that would just make it consistent given he and Spidey kinda scale to each other to a degree, that isn't what an outlier is bro

Just because something happens won't always equate to consistency. Spidey doesn't even have concrete scaling to Thanos in any shape or form. And even then, using this logic, this has only worked for Spidey's spider-sense in this instance, so no it wouldn't be "consistent" for the other past crews. And even then, the Relativistic+ scaling seems to be only for god tiers only.

 

[Chariot190]

That's completely different context from what I've compared to between Batman and Superman.

Yeah but superman canonically sandbags literally every stat subconsciously
Ngl, I wouldn't be surprised if strange fed Spidey to the sharks for the greater good, he doesn't really **** around

Just because something happens won't always equate to consistency.

It literally does when the Spidey level lads, which he is, consistently **** with strange. We only use "outlier" for the most extreme cases, Norman tagging strange when he scales to someone who can tag strange just makes it more concrete.

Spidey doesn't even have concrete scaling to Thanos in any shape or form.

Didn't mention Thanos, only strange.

And even then, using this logic, this has only worked for Spidey's spider-sense in this instance, so no it wouldn't be "consistent" for the other past crews. And even then, the Relativistic+ scaling seems to be only for god tiers only.

They all downscale from Spidey sense though.
Either way, don't care, I'm only saying strange holding back speed makes zero sense and goes against what's established in the scene itself

 

[Thelastmlg]

Eh idk.

You can hold back power as to not kill, but why would you hold back speed? You can do one and not the other. Especially when a handful of the times Spidey outspeed him isn't really in portrayed as strange sandbagging anyway and a few times he's even pretty shocked himself. And strange kinda really wanted that box tbh.

this is actually something i always wonde in those cases, if a character wants to capture another or incapacitate or whatever that means they won't go all out, why would they hold back speed as well, sure strenght, durabiltiy and hax makes sense, but speed is not inherently damaging, i guess if the stronger character is toying with them sure, but if they are seriously trying to get the guy, why wouldn't they blitz him?

 

[Propellus]

It literally does when the Spidey level lads, which he is, consistently **** with strange. We only use "outlier" for the most extreme cases, Norman tagging strange when he scales to someone who can tag strange just makes it more concrete.

The rest of the Spidies don't even scale to MCU's Spidey's spider-sense at all, they only scale to his regular speed which is currently rated at MHS+.

Didn't mention Thanos, only strange.

That's literally why Strange is Relativistic+, because of his battle with Thanos.

Either way, don't care, I'm only saying strange holding back speed makes zero sense and goes against what's established in the scene itself

But I suppose you made your point.

 

[Propellus]

Chariot's convinced me as well

But I guess you can do your magic and close the thread, looks like I've goofed by my own confusion and thought this scaling didn't really make sense to me.

 

[Lonkitt]

No worries, it happens more than you'd think with a lot of users

I'll close this up