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MCU Phase 6 General Discussion Thread

LegendariumOfLies said:
Forget speed, they are using an unapproved equation for the Fireball calc. Actually, I think it was rejected by @DontTalkDT
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The calculation uses both of the two new formulas that were proposed. And as I mentioned in the upgrade thread, the math behind the formula that give high results was accepted, but later it was decided to use the other formula instead. And the calculation that give low results has not yet been evaluated. So the calculation uses an approved formula. It just needs to be evaluated for the other end.

Additionally, the characters are scaling to Homelander's neutron bomb statement, not this.
 
darkphantom9805 said:
the dceu is massively wanked and is somehow ignored from this and it’s a perfect example you can’t just use this logic to downgrade 1 verse and ignore them for others nearly all LA verses
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Not wanked. But you're not wrong, but it isn't the mods job to hardcore seek downgrades for every verse because one or three other verses get downgraded. I don't think people ignore other verses either, it's just asking a lot for the community to tackle dozens of verses with material being made actively or having to reread hundreds of chapters, several movies or spin offs, etc. DCEU is also dead not ignored, just less interest is put into it.
 
Okay so I don't know if any of you have seen this but one website from my country released an article stating the plot for Doomsday has entirely been leaked by leakers Majestic_ucm and MytimeToshineHello. Take note that this is only speculation and Marvel isn't above changing their plots through reshoots. Now I'll "spoil" everything for those who want to read it so here we go

- Movie would begin with a duel involving Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man against Deadpool and Wolverine, both having been sent by Beast to destroy a doomed universe. Wolverine sacrifices himself by staying behind with Spidey while Deadpool escapes to join Professor X who laments this is the only solution to avoid an Incursion. Maguires's world is naturally destroyed in that scenario.

- Steve Rogers, who lives with Peggy and has a son named Jim, is visited by Loki, specifically a variant from prior the ending of season 2 who convinces him and his family to move to Earth-828 where they live happily for ten years. Dr Doom appears and asks Steve to go back to Earth-616 to join the heroes.

- A battle between the X-Men and the Avengers ensues during which the Avengers try to steal Beast's dimensional travel technology. Doom and Reed are also planning of building canons to separate universes and timelines and definitely stop Incursions.

- Thor and Steve decide to go to the TVA to find Loki and asks him to help them but once there, they find out everyone's dead and Loki had his heart ripped out by Dr Doom who reveals his true colors. He apparently manipulated events to not only let Incursions happen but also caused several of them so he could reshape existence to his image and resurrect his own dead family. Doom reveals Steve's arrival in the FF's universe led to the death of his family (apparently Steve's life with Peggy was causing Incursions) and uses an illusion of Peggy to torment him.

- The final battle happens in Latveria, where Doom is about to cause a final Incursion. The Avengers, the X-Men, the FF and other heroes all charge at Doom's armies and Thor even has an army of Valkyries sent by Odin from Valhalla and personally fights Doom. Unfortunately, Doom proves to be too powerful, steals Loki's power, remakes existence and the multiverse to create Battleworld and erases the heroes's memories.
 
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I wonder if further attempts to upgrade the Iron Spider will be made now that Raimiverse Doc Ock being able to damage it can no longer be taken into account...

(Though on the other hand, there's still the fact that Star-Lord's blasters were treated as a threat to the armor, and even indirect shots from Sanctuary II caused a lot of damage, so...)
 
Dinobot1996 said:
(Though on the other hand, there's still the fact that Star-Lord's blasters were treated as a threat to the armor, and even indirect shots from Sanctuary II caused a lot of damage, so...)
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Star-lord can think what he wants there’s no evidence it would’ve damaged the armor and shots from the sanctuary didn’t cause that much damage regardless those same Sanctuary blast did way more damage to a Leviathan then even antman did with his punches they straight up overpowered Wanda was a threat to hulk war machine etc those blast were dangerous to nearly everyone on the battlefield besides captain marvel

The suit is directly stated by WoG to scale and be made of the same nano tech tony suit is made from and there’s 0 evidence they don’t scale or why Tony would narratively give someone he treats as his son a suit thousands of times weaker then his own
 
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darkphantom9805 said:
Star-lord can think what he wants there’s no evidence it would’ve damaged the armor and shots from the sanctuary didn’t cause that much damage regardless those same Sanctuary blast did way more damage to a Leviathan then even antman did with his punches they straight up overpowered Wanda was a threat to hulk war machine etc those blast were dangerous to nearly everyone on the battlefield besides captain marvel

The suit is directly stated by WoG to scale and be made of the same nano tech tony suit is made from and there’s 0 evidence they don’t scale or why Tony would narratively give someone he treats as his son a suit thousands of times weaker then his own
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I don't think Peter was ever hit by one of the bolts directly so he wouldn't scale to the full thing. Also it's pretty heavily implied that Star-Lord's blasters would've killed Peter, with even Tony somewhat sharing that sentiment, which is part of the reason why he held Drax hostage. No reason to threaten to kill the other guy's team member if your team member could no-sell the hit. The entire point of standoffs like that in fiction is that both parties have something to loose & are trying to negotiate. If Peter could tank it, why not let Star-Lord shoot him & find out the hard way that Peter is a unit? Why go through this whole "you shoot my guy I'll shoot him" ballet when there would've been 0 stakes for Tony? Did Tony just want blood?

Also simply being made of nanotech doesn't magically make it as strong as Tony's armors. My nail clippers are made out of metal. Swords are also made out of the same metal. Does that mean that my nail clippers are just as strong & dangerous as a sword?

How long are we going to partake in this song & dance? None of this evidence is new & all of it has been debunked to the moon & back yet you're still bringing it up. Is there anything at all we can say to change your mind on this topic? Because if not, then there's really no point in typing these responses anymore, and making these is starting to feel like this
Dinobot1996 said:
I wonder if further attempts to upgrade the Iron Spider will be made now that Raimiverse Doc Ock being able to damage it can no longer be taken into account...
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Probably not, there are still 100+ anti-feats in NWH alone even when ignoring the cross-verse scaling

I honestly disagree very strongly with the recent MCU speed & cross-scaling CRT but I'm going to wait until Doomsday comes out before talking about it. I doubt I'd change anything anyways given the overwhelming support behind it
 
Lonkitt said:
Speed downgrade. Class M for MCU Spidey came from Raimi and TASM cross-scaling
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Spider-Man should get his Class M webbing back though. This was the original justification "Held the 3,200 ton Spirit of America Ferry from collapsing in half" and it’s unrelated to the speed changes.
 
Legion350 said:
Spider-Man should get his Class M webbing back though. This was the original justification "Held the 3,200 ton Spirit of America Ferry from collapsing in half" and it’s unrelated to the speed changes.
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Yeah idk why that was removed, that one wasn't me

I can just add it back since it was a simple error
 
Lonkitt said:
Yeah idk why that was removed, that one wasn't me

I can just add it back since it was a simple error
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It was removed beforehand because the calc LS was lower than the scaling LS. So it was rephrased as it is now and left at higher
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
I don't think Peter was ever hit by one of the bolts directly so he wouldn't scale to the full thing. Also it's pretty heavily implied that Star-Lord's blasters would've killed Peter, with even Tony somewhat sharing that sentiment, which is part of the reason why he held Drax hostage. No reason to threaten to kill the other guy's team member if your team member could no-sell the hit. The entire point of standoffs like that in fiction is that both parties have something to loose & are trying to negotiate. If Peter could tank it, why not let Star-Lord shoot him & find out the hard way that Peter is a unit? Why go through this whole "you shoot my guy I'll shoot him" ballet when there would've been 0 stakes for Tony? Did Tony just want blood?
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Neither were most the other high tiers yet they were still overpowered by them and sent flying I don’t think anyone actually survived a direct hit by them besides carol when looking it always hits the heroes right next to them and sends them flying exactly like it did to Peter so I don’t see why it would be different narratively those blast were a threat to and could injure nearly everyone on the battlefield besides carol

also it doesn’t matter what you think is implied it wasn’t we don’t scale off your feelings we scale of what it’s shown to do or stated they never once confirmed Star-lord can damage it tony himself doesn’t know anything about the guns in the first place
ThePrimalHunter said:
Also simply being made of nanotech doesn't magically make it as strong as Tony's armors. My nail clippers are made out of metal. Swords are also made out of the same metal. Does that mean that my nail clippers are just as strong & dangerous as a sword?
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except it does because it’s made from the exact same metal only difference would be thickness his suit WoG directly says they are in the same ballpark in terms of tier meaning their stats are roughly the same

Meaning your thousands of times difference is head canon sorry

ThePrimalHunter said:
How long are we going to partake in this song & dance? None of this evidence is new & all of it has been debunked to the moon & back yet you're still bringing it up. Is there anything at all we can say to change your mind on this topic? Because if not, then there's really no point in typing these responses anymore, and making these is starting to feel like this
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It hasn’t been debunked lol it’s been ignored literally every answer to the WoG is I don’t like it so ill ignore it despite its officially stated to scale meanwhile there are a grand total of 0 statements that it doesn’t scale besides your opinion

Them being so far apart not only goes against WoG but straight up goes against the narrative of the story itself he’s not going to give someone who he sees as his son such a weak suit especially when that suit was specifically designed for when Peter is ready to join the avengers
 
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ThePrimalHunter said:
Because if not, then there's really no point in typing these responses anymore, and making these is starting to feel like this
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Yeah, that's what talking to darkphantom about anything is like. He completely stone walls anything regardless of what you say (AKA he does not read posts)
 
It seems like there's a decent amount of stuff that needs to be reassessed now that NWH cross-scaling isn't being used.

Is this Raimiverse novel stuff I brought up a few months ago more usable now, or can it still be safely dismissed as exaggerations?
 
darkphantom9805 said:
Neither were most the other high tiers yet they were still overpowered by them and sent flying I don’t think anyone actually survived a direct hit by them besides carol when looking it always hits the heroes right next to them and sends them flying exactly like it did to Peter so I don’t see why it would be different narratively those blast were a threat to and could injure nearly everyone on the battlefield besides carol
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You know who else was super close to those blaster bolts & was about as affected as Peter? Bucky, regular-ass foot soldiers, Wanda (a glass canon with no remarkable durability), Groot, etc. The only person of note that was directly hit by them was Carol, and she was completely uneffected

Peter litteraly cowers in fear when the plasma bolts start getting close to him, yet you're claiming that he should be comparable to a character that no-selled dozens of them
darkphantom9805 said:
also it doesn’t matter what you think is implied it wasn’t we don’t scale off your feelings we scale of what it’s shown to do or stated they never once confirmed Star-lord can damage it tony himself doesn’t know anything about the guns in the first place
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This is the funniest thing I've ever read from you. Aren't you the same guy that tried arguing that the Iron Spider & Mark 50 suits should scale because they "looked the same"? You scale off of nothing BUT your feelings

We know they can probably damage it because Star-Lord knocked Peter over with a kick, and because again, if the suit was so strong why would he at all be worried about some random yahoo with space guns hurting Peter? Was he worried about some random chitari soldiers destroying Captain America's shield? No, because he knew that it was strong enough to take their blaster's hits
darkphantom9805 said:
except it does because it’s made from the exact same metal only difference would be thickness his suit WoG directly says they are in the same ballpark in terms of tier meaning their stats are roughly the same

Meaning your thousands of times difference is head canon sorry
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So are you agreeing with my claim that my nail clippers are as strong as a sword because they're made from the same metal? That is litteraly what you are saying here. You are an actual joke dude. Black Panther's suit is made of nanotech. Is it magically as strong as the Mark 50 suit? The time heist suits in Endgame use nanotech. Stark nanotech no less. Are those suits scalable to the Mark 85? Why would Tony give his fellow Avengers suits thousands of times weaker than his after all? Endgame Black Widow is tier 6 confirmed? You should get on that CRT, this could be revolutionary

We don't know the exact type of metal it's made of, we just know that it's vagely nanotech. Nanotech is a type of technology, not a type of metal. I actually don't think we're given a canon answer as to what metal specifically the suits are made of

Your WoG statement is a twitter post from a leading question from 1 writer out of dozens. And by definition being "in the same ballpark" means that they are simular but not equals. To use an NBA analogy, Brian Scalabrine is on the same courtyard (in the same ballpark) as LeBron James, but if you put both of them in a 1v1 basketball game, LeBron is winning every single time

If you want your headcannon of the Iron Spider & Iron Man suits being scalable, you're going to need more evidence than vibe scaling & a claim on twitter. We don't scale off your feelings after all
darkphantom9805 said:
It hasn’t been debunked lol it’s been ignored literally every answer to the WoG is I don’t like it so ill ignore it despite its officially stated to scale meanwhile there are a grand total of 0 statements that it doesn’t scale besides your opinion
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It has been debunked time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. You just plug your ears and repeat the same arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over anv over and over without offering any new insight or scans or anything. Like dude I love Spider-Man too but the glaze is genuinely obsurd

Again, is there anything I can say that will get you to even briefly consider the other side of the arguement? Because if not then we're both just wasting our time
darkphantom9805 said:
Them being so far apart not only goes against WoG but straight up goes against the narrative of the story itself he’s not going to give someone who he sees as his son such a weak suit especially when that suit was specifically designed for when Peter is ready to join the avengers
Click to expand...
darkphantom9805 said:
also it doesn’t matter what you think is implied it wasn’t we don’t scale off your feelings we scale of what it’s shown to do or stated
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Anyways I'm probably going to leave the argument here, I don't think it's really worth my time anymore & I promised myself to stop engaging with things that get me heated like this, so I'll just practice some healthy habits and stop typing into the void
 
Dinobot1996 said:
It seems like there's a decent amount of stuff that needs to be reassessed now that NWH cross-scaling isn't being used.

Is this Raimiverse novel stuff I brought up a few months ago more usable now, or can it still be safely dismissed as exaggerations?
Click to expand...

I'm already handling/drafting up the Raimiverse version. I'm gonna be upgrading the verse, though the speed will remain Subsonic (albeit with calcs now)

The web decapitation thing is brought up a ton on this forum, but I think it's hyperbole. His webs ain't doin' allat
 
Dinobot1996 said:
Actually, why is the Green Goblin missile calculation listed as High 8-C+ on the blog, verse page, and relevant profiles? It came out to 5.907 tons, whereas I thought the midpoint of High 8-C was 6.5 tons due to it ranging from 2 to 11 tons.
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Okay so update, yeah this is just a typo. Changes nothing besides the fact the + shouldn't be there

EXCEPT I just talked to Dale and he said it MIGHT need a recalc because 20 PSI isn't defaulted to anymore. Stay tuned for that

Btw, no matter what the recalc comes out to, the missile scaling is still legit. We just want it to be accurate and up to date
 
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Wait so if Wanda is a glass canon how did she survive hits from Thor in zombies ?


9876744-ezgif-3bb318aa336259.gif
 
We already consider Wanda to have gotten more durable as her powers grew. Zombie Wanda was never snapped, so by the time of Marvel Zombies, she has some extra years of experience compared to where her main universe counterpart was at the time of WandaVision.
 
Oh yeah, more potential Spider-Man stuff in the future

I still found evidence that Post-Homecoming, Spidey improves pretty much in every way. I was saving it for a different Spidey key split, but then the downgrade for speed was revealed along the way. The keys can still be applied, it would just be a really basic upscale (none of the other 8-Cs would be affected by this btw). So, like at worst, we're looking at "At least 8-C, higher with the Iron Spider" for a Post-HC key. That's probably gonna be the case tho since there's like, no other better calcs he can scale to after HC (yeah the Shuri calc is well after HC, but he scales to that through Cap and Black Panther so you know what I mean). I'll search though, you know I've still got Spidey brainrot

I'll get searching, but MCU Spidey stonks aren't looking great gang (even if he should be considered stronger than guys like Cap after HC, regardless of the feats we use)

I'm gonna focus on TASM and Raimi stuff before that if I go through with it
 
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Lonkitt said:
Oh yeah, more potential Spider-Man stuff in the future

I still found evidence that Post-Homecoming, Spidey improves pretty much in every way. I was saving it for a different Spidey key split, but then the downgrade for speed was revealed along the way. The keys can still be applied, it would just be a really basic upscale (none of the other 8-Cs would be affected by this btw). So, like at worst, we're looking at "At least 8-C, higher with the Iron Spider" for a Post-HC key. That's probably gonna be the case tho since there's like, no other better calcs he can scale to after HC (yeah the Shuri calc is well after HC, but he scales to that through Cap and Black Panther so you know what I mean). I'll search though, you know I've still got Spidey brainrot

I'll get searching, but MCU Spidey stonks aren't looking great gang (even if he should be considered stronger than guys like Cap after HC, regardless of the feats we use)

I'm gonna focus on TASM and Raimi stuff before that if I go through with it
Click to expand...

Actually it might be more like Post-Endgame based on another source I found that ties into others
 
Hey, feel like someone here may wanna check this out

vsbattles.com

[4-0-0] Literally better call Saul - Higuruma vs MCU's She-Hulk

Someone has attempted this before, but i'd like to try changing things around to see this going to fruition and give the middle finger to misogynistic jokes if they come Higuruma and Jennifer meet on different sides of court in the case of Mr. Sansweet In circa 1950, Oliver Sansweet tries to...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Alright, in the morning (which is like 6+ hours from now) I'll get my Raimiverse revision up around that time. I gotta sleep tho and I got a morning uni class. Y'all won't need to wait for much longer
 
My God, when did everyone’s speed get downgraded to subsonic? I thought the ratings were a bit inflated for the street tiers, but this is absurd 😭
 
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