MCU Phase 6 General Discussion Thread

[darkphantom9805]

False actually if you actually looked you'd see the CRT is broken up into several sections, the first is directly addressing why the specifc calcs don't work for scaling, the second is addressing a few of the anti-feats, and the third is visual comparisons, with the fourth being cross scaling so a whole 1/4th of the CRT is about visual comparisons so congrats your wrong

Not false and you would be the one who’s wrong the same logic in that crt can be used for nearly every single live action verse dcu dceu the boys etc and downgrade all of them multiple of those anti feats are straight up you taking background objects as moving and saying because they are moving the same speed they are fighting they fight that so slow

And trying to separate the spiders is still the dumbest thing ever you are straight up going against the very narrative of the story

 

[Dalesean027]

Not false and you would be the one who’s wrong the same logic in that crt can be used for nearly every single live action verse dcu dceu the boys etc multiple of those anti feats are straight up you taking background objects as moving and saying because they are moving th same speed they are fighting they fight that so slow

If you're argument is that other verses would be downgraded if you judged them the same then sure ig, I'd 100% agree? DCEU unfortunately in your case has many many more cases of blatant superspeed in combat for its characters and showcases heightened perceptions constantly across numerous scenes for Superman, WW, Flash, and Aquaman. They also visually in real time scenes move much faster than MCU guys and quite frequently perception blitz looks and appear as blurs on screen. The most you could axe from the DCEU is like suicide squad speed if they have some weirdly high speeds but otherwise thats definitely a bad example especially considering also they have actual good statement

Also yeah the boys does need to be downgraded badly lol so yeah?

 

[Dalesean027]

And trying to separate the spiders is still the dumbest thing ever you are straight up going against the very narrative of the story

Its already how we treat our crossover scaling on the actual comic side, this is no different, they have their own entirely separate isolated scaling in their original works and universes and when they crossover for an event we don't just give them the same scaling because they've interacted once, you see we don't have equal stats for every single version of Spider-man who has ever crossed over with another one or the same for any character.

 

[Chritin]

Nah it’s lowballing most the anti feats are literally you nitpicking background visuals and goin well the entire world isn’t frozen and still moving when they fight meaning they are just that slow this type of logic can literally be applied to nearly every single live action verse in general cause speed is almost never consistent in LA verse in fiction unless the characters entire power focuses on speed

Heck your literally trying to separate the spiders which is stupid as they all clearly scale to each other tobey and Andrew are literally directly called equal in speed and they kept up with electro at his strongest

"Nitpicking background visuals"

My brother in christ there are TWICE the number of moments where the creators spell out how fast they are then we do calcs saying otherwise. Like most of them don't take any kind of extrapolation. They are telling you how fast they are. That's kinda hard to argue against.

Also, I know it was already picked apart why the higher end calcs don't work, but did anyone also take note of the fact that there's a HUGE gap in general? Like the only thing between MHS and Supersonic+ is Iron Man's flight speed? I feel like that's also pretty telling.

 

[Lonkitt]

Not false and you would be the one who’s wrong the same logic in that crt can be used for nearly every single live action verse dcu dceu the boys etc and downgrade all of them

Bringing up other verses isn't supporting your case man. "Whataboutism" isn't a strong argument at all, especially since among all of those verses, the MCU is probably the strongest case of a visual medium, same goes for the Raimiverse

Also, yeah, The Boys DOES need to get downgraded in speed LMAO

 

[M3X_2.0]

Not false and you would be the one who’s wrong the same logic in that crt can be used for nearly every single live action verse dcu dceu the boys etc and downgrade all of them multiple of those anti feats are straight up you taking background objects as moving and saying because they are moving the same speed they are fighting they fight that so slow

And trying to separate the spiders is still the dumbest thing ever you are straight up going against the very narrative of the story

Cope harder

 

[Isaacbobanka]

Bringing up other verses isn't supporting your case man. "Whataboutism" isn't a strong argument at all, especially since among all of those verses, the MCU is probably the strongest case of a visual medium, same goes for the Raimiverse

Also, yeah, The Boys DOES need to get downgraded in speed LMAO

He is not wrong other verse have this and its very common in live-action movies/tv shows for there to be far slower characters and i think there is a word for it which i forgot. If we downgrade Mcus speed which even tho in the thread it was part of 1/4 it was still mostly the visuals that people were convinced by even the support comments said this that some street characters being hypersonic makes "zero sense".

I think this question needs to be asked: If you ask a writer or creater "can your street tier character move at atleast mach 5 feats"? They would instantly say no which is why this isn't something just shared in Mcu but all street tier live-action movies or shows.

If you're argument is that other verses would be downgraded if you judged them the same then sure ig, I'd 100% agree? DCEU unfortunately in your case has many many more cases of blatant superspeed in combat for its characters and showcases heightened perceptions constantly across numerous scenes for Superman, WW, Flash, and Aquaman. They also visually in real time scenes move much faster than MCU guys and quite frequently perception blitz looks and appear as blurs on screen. The most you could axe from the DCEU is like suicide squad speed if they have some weirdly high speeds but otherwise thats definitely a bad example especially considering also they have actual good statement

Also yeah the boys does need to be downgraded badly lol so yeah?

This is inacurate while dceu does have showcases on high speed every feat they do has inconsistancies and is contradicted by something.

Overall the problem is the writers who simply dosen't understand the physics of their character or the verse. With this i see no reason to use writers mistakes and downgrade characters based anti-feats purly made from missunderstandment.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I think this question needs to be asked: If you ask a writer or creater "can your street tier character move at atleast mach 5 feats"? They would instantly say no which is why this isn't something just shared in Mcu but all street tier live-action movies or shows.

Let me ask you something then. If the creator told you these characters don’t move at Mach 5, would you still push them to move at Mach 5 with calculations?

 

[Lonkitt]

He is not wrong other verse have this and its very common in live-action movies/tv shows for there to be far slower characters and i think there is a word for it which i forgot. If we downgrade Mcus speed which even tho in the thread it was part of 1/4 it was still mostly the visuals that people were convinced by even the support comments said this that some street characters being hypersonic makes "zero sense".

But why do those verses matter...? This isn't a DCEU revision, it's an MCU revision. Being ""similar"" isn't backing anything up

I think this question needs to be asked: If you ask a writer or creater "can your street tier character move at atleast mach 5 feats"? They would instantly say no which is why this isn't something just shared in Mcu but all street tier live-action movies or shows.

No man we are NOT doing this Ben 10 leading questions shit with MCU creators. Please be better than this. Besides, guys like Whedon have already been very blatant about how characters such as Quicksilver peak at Supersonic

Plus, we already got a ton of calculations done for this revision that more than support the fact that Subsonic is far more consistent and reliable for the MCU

This is inacurate while dceu does have showcases on high speed every feat they do has inconsistancies and is contradicted by something.

Again. Why are we talking about the DCEU? This isn't supporting your case, we're strictly talking about the MCU here

Bro's really using the DCEU as his big argument

Overall the problem is the writers who simply dosen't understand the physics of their character or the verse. With this i see no reason to use writers mistakes and downgrade characters based anti-feats purly made from missunderstandment.

Here's the thing, most writers don't understand physics to a genius degree. Does that mean the characters are suddenly Hypersonic - MHS+? No, not at all. You're gonna have to give us more than "but in the DCEU" and "writers don't understand physics"

Plus...I don't see how writers not understanding physics contradicts scenes of bullets being faster than MCU characters as well as characters being held at gunpoint

 

[Isaacbobanka]

Let me ask you something then. If the creator told you these characters don’t move at Mach 5, would you still push them to move at Mach 5 with calculations?

Yes creators might have strong words when it comes to a verse but they are not absolute. For example Eric Krikman if i belive it right stated Omni-man could beat superman in a fight (comic one) but if we look at their feats we can see that superman in his comics is on a completly different leves therefore feats >author statments.

 

[Lonkitt]

Yes creators might have strong words when it comes to a verse but they are not absolute. For example Eric Krikman if i belive it right stated Omni-man could beat superman in a fight (comic one) but if we look at their feats we can see that superman in his comics is on a completly different leves therefore feats >author statments.

This is such a non-statement, how does this affect anything we've been talking about???

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yes creators might have strong words when it comes to a verse but they are not absolute. For example Eric Krikman if i belive it right stated Omni-man could beat superman in a fight (comic one) but if we look at their feats we can see that superman in his comics is on a completly different leves therefore feats >author statments.

Then you’re wrong and that’s a very stupid, idiotic argument. The writer or author tells you a canon information and you push for headcanon calculations in order to ignore it?

Sure, “feats > author statements”, and MCU doesn’t have any. If the author doesn’t know the “physics” of their characters, what makes you believe you do?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Also the fact both of you are coping here rather than arguing on the thread tells us all we need to know. There is no argument, just incredulity.

 

[Isaacbobanka]

But why do those verses matter...? This isn't a DCEU revision, it's an MCU revision. Being ""similar"" isn't backing anything up

Because its a general question: "Should verse be downgraded because of visual anti-feats" which is universally shared for all live -action addaptions and its not just dceu but all verses. Dceu is just an example.

No man we are NOT doing this Ben 10 leading questions shit with MCU creators. Please be better than this. Besides, guys like Whedon have already been very blatant about how characters such as Quicksilver peak at Supersonic

Plus, we already got a ton of calculations done for this revision that more than support the fact that Subsonic is far more consistent and reliable for the MCU

1. Quicksilver is from age of ultron only the second Avengers movie while the rest of the scaling comes after that so i don't see how it would affect every character in MCU even the top tiers who gets progressivly faster later on. 2. How does lower feats like subsonic limit their speed? While more feats might be subsonic i see no reason for the entire verse all the way from street tiers to characters like Thor and Captain marvel be downgraded to sub sonic because low tiers have more sub sonic feats now.

Again. Why are we talking about the DCEU? This isn't supporting your case, we're strictly talking about the MCU here

Bro's really using the DCEU as his big argument

I responded to daleseans comment talking about dceu and why its a good exampel and why are you assuming i am using it as a "big argument". My big argument is the fact that downgrading an entire verse to sub-sonic even the high tiers who barley have these anti-feats makes zero sense.

Here's the thing, most writers don't understand physics to a genius degree. Does that mean the characters are suddenly Hypersonic - MHS+? No, not at all. You're gonna have to give us more than "but in the DCEU" and "writers don't understand physics"

Plus...I don't see how writers not understanding physics contradicts scenes of bullets being faster than MCU characters as well as characters being held at gunpoint

The scenes of them being held at gun point is the showcase that they do not understand physics yes. This is the reason for my argument as being held by gun point do not limit they're capabilites to dodge attacks and is of no reason why higher reaction speed feats should be ignored. Just like any other verse we should still scale their speed to their capabilites not what the writers think of their speed which is why visual scaling makes zero sense.

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

Not false and you would be the one who’s wrong the same logic in that crt can be used for nearly every single live action verse dcu dceu the boys etc and downgrade all of them multiple of those anti feats are straight up you taking background objects as moving and saying because they are moving the same speed they are fighting they fight that so slow

And trying to separate the spiders is still the dumbest thing ever you are straight up going against the very narrative of the story

Because its a general question: "Should verse be downgraded because of visual anti-feats" which is universally shared for all live -action addaptions and its not just dceu but all verses. Dceu is just an example.

1. Quicksilver is from age of ultron only the second Avengers movie while the rest of the scaling comes after that so i don't see how it would affect every character in MCU even the top tiers who gets progressivly faster later on. 2. How does lower feats like subsonic limit their speed? While more feats might be subsonic i see no reason for the entire verse all the way from street tiers to characters like Thor and Captain marvel be downgraded to sub sonic because low tiers have more sub sonic feats now.

I responded to daleseans comment talking about dceu and why its a good exampel and why are you assuming i am using it as a "big argument". My big argument is the fact that downgrading an entire verse to sub-sonic even the high tiers who barley have these anti-feats makes zero sense.

The scenes of them being held at gun point is the showcase that they do not understand physics yes. This is the reason for my argument as being held by gun point do not limit they're capabilites to dodge attacks and is of no reason why higher reaction speed feats should be ignored. Just like any other verse we should still scale their speed to their capabilites not what the writers think of their speed which is why visual scaling makes zero sense.

Y'know, your points would actually make a lot more sense if you were to actually argue about it on the thread.

 

[Lonkitt]

Because its a general question: "Should verse be downgraded because of visual anti-feats" which is universally shared for all live -action addaptions and its not just dceu but all verses. Dceu is just an example.

It's a general question you're trying to use to support the MCU not being downgraded. You're not being slick with this and truth be told, it's not even a good argument when we've got shit like the DCU which ACTUALLY has feats that are consistently well above Supersonic

Let's keep things simple though. We're only focusing on the MCU. So stop bringing up other live action verses

1. Quicksilver is from age of ultron only the second Avengers movie while the rest of the scaling comes after that so i don't see how it would affect every character in MCU even the top tiers who gets progressivly faster later on. 2. How does lower feats like subsonic limit their speed? While more feats might be subsonic i see no reason for the entire verse all the way from street tiers to characters like Thor and Captain marvel be downgraded to sub sonic because low tiers have more sub sonic feats now.

1. Provide evidence that high tiers become SIGNIFICANTLY faster later on. Better yet, show prove that they they actually get faster in reactions, NOT FLIGHT SPEED, but REACTIONS that go far above Subsonic

2. Maybe if you read the actual thread, you'll see why Thor and Captain Marvel can't have their reactions scaled above subsonic. Based on how you've been talking, you saw that it was a verse wide downgraded and didn't bother reading. You just went here to go "nuh uh"

I responded to daleseans comment talking about dceu and why its a good exampel and why are you assuming i am using it as a "big argument". My big argument is the fact that downgrading an entire verse to sub-sonic even the high tiers who barley have these anti-feats makes zero sense.

I'm assuming it's your "big argument" because you can't stop mentioning it despite how irrelevant it is. No, it isn't a good example, it's an entirely different verse. Try again

"Barely any anti-feats" and yet we listed a ton in the thread itself. Again, read the thread instead of seeing the word "downgrade" and INSTANTLY complaining

The scenes of them being held at gun point is the showcase that they do not understand physics yes. This is the reason for my argument as being held by gun point do not limit they're capabilites to dodge attacks and is of no reason why higher reaction speed feats should be ignored. Just like any other verse we should still scale their speed to their capabilites not what the writers think of their speed which is why visual scaling makes zero sense.

Like M3X said, if the writers don't understand their own ""characters' physics"", why should I assume you do?

We ARE scaling them to their own capabilities in the downgrade thread man, they just aren't that fast

Again, if you took the time to carefully read the thread instead of complaining at the notion of subsonic MCU, you might be able to understand that. But I can tell you haven't read it because you're ignoring Thor and Captain Marvel's several anti-feats

 

[Isaacbobanka]

This is such a non-statement, how does this affect anything we've been talking about???

This was his comment: "Let me ask you something then. If the creator told you these characters don’t move at Mach 5, would you still push them to move at Mach 5 with calculations?"

This question was not about the disussion but rather my oppinion.

Then you’re wrong and that’s a very stupid, idiotic argument. The writer or author tells you a canon information and you push for headcanon calculations in order to ignore it?

Sure, “feats > author statements”, and MCU doesn’t have any. If the author doesn’t know the “physics” of their characters, what makes you believe you do?

You think my argument is "idiotic" when your basiclly saying that a canon information should be used before something which is both canon and something done by the actually character and not the words of someone who can say whatever they want even if its wrong.

Yes i belive that actuall calculations and factual information is above a persons statment because it is simply more factual and easly proven.

Also the fact both of you are coping here rather than arguing on the thread tells us all we need to know. There is no argument, just incredulity.

I could be arguing on the thread but i already know it will be accepted. This site have bias and it shows in the thread when a moderator makes a thread it takes like a day for it to be accepted while normal users can wait months or even years.

I could care less about this site acceptance specially after this.

Btw i am not going to respond to the other comments since its a lost cause i already know you and your friends opinion on this is set in stone but the fact that you think characters like Thor in even love and thunder is as fast as a street tier character makes this laughable.

 

[darkphantom9805]

I could be arguing on the thread but i already know it will be accepted. This site have bias and it shows in the thread when a moderator makes a thread it takes like a day for it to be accepted while normal users can wait months or even years.

This is true actually ridiculous some take ages why some mod threads get accepted in a day

 

[Lonkitt]

This was his comment: "Let me ask you something then. If the creator told you these characters don’t move at Mach 5, would you still push them to move at Mach 5 with calculations?"

This question was not about the disussion but rather my oppinion.

???? Okay????

Again, though, it IS a non-statement. The Omni-Man > Superman statement is probably the worst example you could've brought up

You think my argument is "idiotic" when your basiclly saying that a canon information should be used before something which is both canon and something done by the actually character and not the words of someone who can say whatever they want even if its wrong.

That is NOT at all what M3X was saying, holy strawman

Yes i belive that actuall calculations and factual information is above a persons statment because it is simply more factual and easly proven.

Which is funny since the downgrade thread addresses the fact all of calcs being used for high speed ratings are just outright unuseable for a multitude of reasons. I didn't see you or darkphantom address that. Curious

I could be arguing on the thread but i already know it will be accepted. This site have bias and it shows in the thread when a moderator makes a thread it takes like a day for it to be accepted while normal users can wait months or even years.

No...? Sometimes threads just go faster than others. I'm not saying there's never been bias on the wiki, but sometimes revisions just go by faster because they get the right attention and, surprise surprise, they're well made

The fact that you're passionate enough to yap about your disagreement here but not on the thread itself is kinda telling that you don't have anything to refute the arguments...or like I mentioned, you just haven't read the arguments

Btw i am not going to respond to the other comments since its a lost cause i already know you and your friends opinion on this is set in stone but the fact that you think characters like Thor in even love and thunder is as fast as a street tier character makes this laughable.

Concession accepted

This is true actually ridiculous I still have multiple crt that need like 1 MoD comment to get it accepted that are months olds yet some of these literally get passed and changed within a day

Darkphantom, your MCU CRTs are highkey really poorly put together. This has been a problem with you and the MCU for awhile. You make a ""big"" upgrade thread using material from deleted scenes, flimsy statements, misinterpretations, and then get upset when people tell you to provide a source or when they give you a legitimate reason for disagreeing, and then you proceed to say "use common sense and logic" without elaborating

 

[darkphantom9805]

Again. Why are we talking about the DCEU? This isn't supporting your case, we're strictly talking about the MCU here

Bro's really using the DCEU as his big argument

the dceu is massively wanked and is somehow ignored from this and it’s a perfect example you can’t just use this logic to downgrade 1 verse and ignore them for others nearly all LA verses

Like you will look at this and say yeah that’s Relativistic speed then you see this in the mcu and you go yeah that’s subsonic speed this type of stuff can be done to nearly every LA verse in fiction where you ignore all feats and show them fighting incredibly slowly and say that’s the speed they are

 

[Lonkitt]

the dceu is massively wanked and is somehow ignored from this and it’s a perfect example you can’t just use this logic to downgrade 1 verse and ignore them for others nearly all LA verses have this logic unless your Strictly a speed related character like flash

Like you will look at this and say yeah that’s Relativistic speed then you see this in the mcu and you go yeah that’s subsonic speed this type of stuff can be done to nearly every LA verse in fiction where you ignore all feats and show them fighting incredibly slowly and say that’s the speed they are

How about you stop bringing up other verses that aren't relevant and actually read the downgrade thread instead of getting mad because you saw the words "MCU", "downgrade", and "subsonic" together?

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

I could be arguing on the thread but i already know it will be accepted. This site have bias and it shows in the thread when a moderator makes a thread it takes like a day for it to be accepted while normal users can wait months or even years.

I could care less about this site acceptance specially after this.

Dude chill, you're looking at a mod here as I didn't even post my response to the thread yet as I'm already in the process on working on the response. Just give things a chance

 

[darkphantom9805]

How about you stop bringing up other verses that aren't relevant and actually read the downgrade thread instead of getting mad because you saw the words "MCU", "downgrade", and "subsonic" together?

I mean it is relevant you just want it ignore it because it contradicts your narrative either all verses should play by this logic or none of them do you can’t cherry pick stuff like that ignore all their feats and only do that for one specific verse

Darkphantom, your MCU CRTs are highkey really poorly put together. This has been a problem with you and the MCU for awhile. You make a ""big"" upgrade thread using material from deleted scenes, flimsy statements, misinterpretations, and then get upset when people tell you to provide a source or when they give you a legitimate reason for disagreeing, and then you proceed to say "use common sense and logic" without elaborating

also this is straight up not true and most of this would honestly be lying I always give sources and provide scans for what I argue so that isn’t true and heck if you actually read before speaking nonsense most of my crt literally have like 20+ people say they agree but because mods never want to appear they never get accepted like if you look at the namor or hulk thread literally 1 single person maybe 2 disagrees out of dozens of people it means they read it and understood it just fine

 

[Lonkitt]

I mean it is relevant you just want it ignore it because it contradicts your narrative either all verses should play by this logic or none of them do you can’t cherry pick stuff like that ignore all their feats and only do that for one specific verse

Ignore it? Cherry picking? Brother, we addressed EVERY CALC putting characters at higher levels and why they don't work. We're not ignoring shit, YOU are

Please stop projecting

 

[darkphantom9805]

Ignore it? Cherry picking? Brother, we addressed EVERY CALC putting characters at higher levels and why they don't work. We're not ignoring shit, YOU are

Please stop projecting

No they don’t and you need to stop getting mad for getting called out that your literally cherry picking a narrative and exclusively applying this to 1 verse other people sees this it not just us it gets mentioned a lot from people on this site and people off it

 

[Lonkitt]

No they don’t you need to stop getting mad for getting called out thag your literally cherry picking a narrative and exclusively applying this to 1 verse

Okay so you're just not gonna read the thread's arguments and keep complaining while also strawmanning me and the others, but you're also not gonna make an actual statement on the thread itself...?

Concession accepted

 

[Qurbonboev]

Yes creators might have strong words when it comes to a verse but they are not absolute. For example Eric Krikman if i belive it right stated Omni-man could beat superman in a fight (comic one) but if we look at their feats we can see that superman in his comics is on a completly different leves therefore feats >author statments.

There are much better cases you can use. Like CW Flash writers saying that his speed is Mach 7, while we can see him traversing the globe

 

[Dalesean027]

There are much better cases you can use. Like CW Flash writers saying that his speed is Mach 7, while we can see him traversing the globe

The problem is the MCU has the low speed statements while also having no valid feats for higher stuff though

 

[Kaydee1648]

we addressed EVERY CALC putting characters at higher levels

the crt didn’t address Gorr dodging Thor’s lightning calc, but yeah it addressed most of them.

Regardless, i see this prompting the creation of more speed calcs to build a visual narrative ‘consistency’.

 

[M3X_2.0]

the crt didn’t address Gorr dodging Thor’s lightning calc

because there's none

 

[Kaydee1648]

oof
coulda sworn i saw one while checking recent blog posts, maybe its just not accepted yet

 

[M3X_2.0]

if you link I can evaluate it

 

[RoTt35]

Gorr dodged and blocked Thor's lightning, but I think there isn't a calc for either feat yet

 

[Lonkitt]

the crt didn’t address Gorr dodging Thor’s lightning calc, but yeah it addressed most of them.

Such a calc does not exist, I'm afraid

 

[Isaacbobanka]

After looking a bit there are also other lighting feats like from Hela who reacted to Thors lighting and later somewhat reacts to lightning from Thor.

Also later on Jane foster turns into pure lightning not sure if this would count for reaction/combat but still.

 

[Dalesean027]

Also later on Jane foster turns into pure lightning not sure if this would count for reaction/combat but still.

Nope this is her sub-rel feat that involves perception speed only

After looking a bit there are also other lighting feats like from Hela who reacted to Thors lighting and later somewhat reacts to lightning from Thor.

This was addressed already in the CRT, this is why we said actually read it.

 

[Nierre]

I could be arguing on the thread but i already know it will be accepted. This site have bias and it shows in the thread when a moderator makes a thread it takes like a day for it to be accepted while normal users can wait months or even years

Can you direct me to your arguments in this thread? There's like... no opposition in that CRT, so I thought this was unanimous but clearly not everyone feels the same way about it. I can check out your debunks and reevaluate the thread if you wish

 

[Isaacbobanka]

Can you direct me to your arguments in this thread? There's like... no opposition in that CRT, so I thought this was unanimous but clearly not everyone feels the same way about it. I can check out your debunks and reevaluate the thread if you wish

1. Quicksilver is from age of ultron only the second Avengers movie while the rest of the scaling comes after that so i don't see how it would affect every character in MCU even the top tiers who gets progressivly faster later on. 2. How does lower feats like subsonic limit their speed? While more feats might be subsonic i see no reason for the entire verse all the way from street tiers to characters like Thor and Captain marvel be downgraded to sub sonic because low tiers have more sub sonic feats now.

This is one.

Also

The scenes of them being held at gun point is the showcase that they do not understand physics yes. This is the reason for my argument as being held by gun point do not limit they're capabilites to dodge attacks and is of no reason why higher reaction speed feats should be ignored. Just like any other verse we should still scale their speed to their capabilites not what the writers think of their speed which is why visual scaling makes zero sense.

 

[Dalesean027]

This is one.

Also

Make the argument in the thread, you saying anything in discussion here doesn't matter

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Bringing up other verses isn't supporting your case man. "Whataboutism" isn't a strong argument at all, especially since among all of those verses, the MCU is probably the strongest case of a visual medium, same goes for the Raimiverse

Also, yeah, The Boys DOES need to get downgraded in speed LMAO

Forget speed, they are using an unapproved equation for the Fireball calc. Actually, I think it was rejected by @DontTalkDT