• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

MCU He Who Remains Already Soloed A Version Of Your Favorite Verse (1-A Tier)

Status
Not open for further replies.

ParkerKent007

189
76
No Caption Provided


MCU He Who Remains should get 1-A Tier, for the following reason.

HWR already soloed a version of your favorite multiverse and a version of anybody in any multiverse in all of fiction -- by definition of his actions, and the onscreen physics of the MCU.

Literally means HWR has beaten someone who looks, behaves, and has the exact same powers as any and all versions of ...

The Doctor from Doctor Who. Rick from Rick and Morty. Infinite Ultron from What If? TOAA from Marvel comics. The Presence from DC comics. Take your pick. Any kind of fictional entity you can imagine.

HWR already beat them all, individually and in unison, by simple proof of his existence until he gave up to the Loki variants.

Here's proof:


---


HWR created and controlled the TVA to maintain the Sacred Timeline by pruning all other branches, until he willingly gave up. A timeline is a universe. A branch is a small moment and place in spacetime that if left unchecked becomes an alternate timeline aka universe. In order for HWR to exist at the instant he gave up, the TVA needed to prune any branch that would lead to his premature death.

Due to the nature of the MCU multiverse, that requires pruning a branch in every place across the universe at every moment in time. In other words, constantly pruning infinite branches. As shown in Loki Season 1, the TVA fires Reset Charges that move the branch (small moment and place in spacetime) to the Void at the end of time where Alioth consumes it.

Loki Season 1 also shows that HWR knew everything that had happened to everyone in the Sacred Timeline, that HWR allowed the variants Loki and Sylvie to branch off and find him, and that the Sacred Timeline branches off infinitely into the multiverse shortly after HWR dies. This means that everything that occurred in the Sacred Timeline occurred with HWR being fully prepared for it and having survived it already until he gave up. That is the point of the TVA pruning branches.

---


No Caption Provided


In Thor Dark World, astrophysicist Erik Selvig's blackboard about the Convergence explained how multiverse physics works in the MCU, which aligns with both the alternate timelines AND completely separate universes established in all other MCU movies and TV series. The circled areas above show the real-world physics on Selvig's blackboard. Here's what they mean:

NEXUS OF ALL REALITY:

"The many-worlds theory proposes instead that every time one state, or outcome, is observed, there is another "world" in which a different quantum outcome becomes reality."

https://www.space.com/32728-parallel-universes.html

SCHRODINGER'S CAT:

"This is where we get back to a version of Schrödinger’s idea. In the Everett version of the cat puzzle, there is a single cat up to the point where the device is triggered. Then the entire Universe splits in two. Similarly, as DeWitt pointed out, an electron in a distant galaxy confronted with a choice of two (or more) quantum paths causes the entire Universe, including ourselves, to split. In the Deutsch–Schrödinger version, there is an infinite variety of universes (a Multiverse) corresponding to all possible solutions to the quantum wave function."

https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/the-many-worlds-theory/

FRACTAL GATEWAYS CONNECTING BRANES:

"The new paradigm that cosmologists have arrived at by several routes is an infinite fractal hierarchy that has “universes” within “universes” without end."

https://rloldershaw.people.amherst.edu/ifu.htm

"Now imagine that multiple universes exist as membranes, or branes, through a multidimensional hyperspace."

https://www.nature.com/articles/35082684

---

By definition of the above real-world physics, which Selvig shows exist in the MCU, and the physics of the MCU multiverse established in its various movies and TV series, at every single moment in time at every single place in space, an infinite number of branched timelines exist where an infinite number of ultimate-tier top-level powered threats emerge with full knowledge of HWR and with full commitment to destroy HWR and using an infinite number of ways of attack ... and HWR beat them all by simple proof of his existence until he gave up. By definition, the fictional opponents already attacked, in some branches individually and in some branches they all attacked all at once. Yet, again, HWR beat them all by simple proof of his knowing everything to occur beforehand and his existence until he gave up to the Loki variants.

Why? Because it's a possible outcome. In the Schrodinger's Cat many-worlds fractal branes multiverse, if anyone can imagine something, that possible outcome is its own branch universe.





As The Ancient One told Doctor Strange while he first traveled through the multiverse, "At the root of existence, mind and matter meet. Thoughts shape reality. This universe is only one of an infinite number."

By definition of HWR's existence until he gave up to the Loki variants, the only thing that is not possible is the PERMANENT SUCCESS of an ultimate-tier top-level powered threat with full knowledge of HWR and with full commitment to destroy HWR.
 
ParkerKent007 said:
No Caption Provided


MCU He Who Remains should get 1-A Tier, for the following reason.

HWR already soloed a version of your favorite multiverse and a version of anybody in any multiverse in all of fiction -- by definition of his actions, and the onscreen physics of the MCU.

Literally means HWR has beaten someone who looks, behaves, and has the exact same powers as any and all versions of ...

The Doctor from Doctor Who. Rick from Rick and Morty. Infinite Ultron from What If? TOAA from Marvel comics. The Presence from DC comics. Take your pick. Any kind of fictional entity you can imagine.

HWR already beat them all, individually and in unison, by simple proof of his existence until he gave up to the Loki variants.

Here's proof:


---


HWR created and controlled the TVA to maintain the Sacred Timeline by pruning all other branches, until he willingly gave up. A timeline is a universe. A branch is a small moment and place in spacetime that if left unchecked becomes an alternate timeline aka universe. In order for HWR to exist at the instant he gave up, the TVA needed to prune any branch that would lead to his premature death.

Due to the nature of the MCU multiverse, that requires pruning a branch in every place across the universe at every moment in time. In other words, constantly pruning infinite branches. As shown in Loki Season 1, the TVA fires Reset Charges that move the branch (small moment and place in spacetime) to the Void at the end of time where Alioth consumes it.

Loki Season 1 also shows that HWR knew everything that had happened to everyone in the Sacred Timeline, that HWR allowed the variants Loki and Sylvie to branch off and find him, and that the Sacred Timeline branches off infinitely into the multiverse shortly after HWR dies. This means that everything that occurred in the Sacred Timeline occurred with HWR being fully prepared for it and having survived it already until he gave up. That is the point of the TVA pruning branches.

---


No Caption Provided


In Thor Dark World, astrophysicist Erik Selvig's blackboard about the Convergence explained how multiverse physics works in the MCU, which aligns with both the alternate timelines AND completely separate universes established in all other MCU movies and TV series. The circled areas above show the real-world physics on Selvig's blackboard. Here's what they mean:

NEXUS OF ALL REALITY:

"The many-worlds theory proposes instead that every time one state, or outcome, is observed, there is another "world" in which a different quantum outcome becomes reality."

https://www.space.com/32728-parallel-universes.html

SCHRODINGER'S CAT:

"This is where we get back to a version of Schrödinger’s idea. In the Everett version of the cat puzzle, there is a single cat up to the point where the device is triggered. Then the entire Universe splits in two. Similarly, as DeWitt pointed out, an electron in a distant galaxy confronted with a choice of two (or more) quantum paths causes the entire Universe, including ourselves, to split. In the Deutsch–Schrödinger version, there is an infinite variety of universes (a Multiverse) corresponding to all possible solutions to the quantum wave function."

https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/the-many-worlds-theory/

FRACTAL GATEWAYS CONNECTING BRANES:

"The new paradigm that cosmologists have arrived at by several routes is an infinite fractal hierarchy that has “universes” within “universes” without end."

https://rloldershaw.people.amherst.edu/ifu.htm

"Now imagine that multiple universes exist as membranes, or branes, through a multidimensional hyperspace."

https://www.nature.com/articles/35082684

---

By definition of the above real-world physics, which Selvig shows exist in the MCU, and the physics of the MCU multiverse established in its various movies and TV series, at every single moment in time at every single place in space, an infinite number of branched timelines exist where an infinite number of ultimate-tier top-level powered threats emerge with full knowledge of HWR and with full commitment to destroy HWR and using an infinite number of ways of attack ... and HWR beat them all by simple proof of his existence until he gave up. By definition, the fictional opponents already attacked, in some branches individually and in some branches they all attacked all at once. Yet, again, HWR beat them all by simple proof of his knowing everything to occur beforehand and his existence until he gave up to the Loki variants.

Why? Because it's a possible outcome. In the Schrodinger's Cat many-worlds fractal branes multiverse, if anyone can imagine something, that possible outcome is its own branch universe.





As The Ancient One told Doctor Strange while he first traveled through the multiverse, "At the root of existence, mind and matter meet. Thoughts shape reality. This universe is only one of an infinite number."

By definition of HWR's existence until he gave up to the Loki variants, the only thing that is not possible is the PERMANENT SUCCESS of an ultimate-tier top-level powered threat with full knowledge of HWR and with full commitment to destroy HWR.
Click to expand...

Disagree FRA.
 
DaReaperMan said:
That would be based as ****, the hell?
Click to expand...
Tolkien's letters says that all fictions are finite portions of God/Eru's infinite potential, therefore Eru upscales from Cthulhu Mythos and World of Darkness right?

Obviously we gotta put Eru at tier 0, and all the Ainur downscale from him. So tier 0 Gandalf and Sauron lol.
 
ParkerKent007 said:
The Doctor from Doctor Who. Rick from Rick and Morty. Infinite Ultron from What If? TOAA from Marvel comics. The Presence from DC comics. Take your pick. Any kind of fictional entity you can imagine.
Click to expand...
No level of cross scaling like this is allowed. The MCU is the MCU and has no authority over those other properties. The only thing that shares its canon is the Marvel comics and the MCU is relegated to its own personal multiverse space.

ParkerKent007 said:
NEXUS OF ALL REALITY:

"The many-worlds theory proposes instead that every time one state, or outcome, is observed, there is another "world" in which a different quantum outcome becomes reality."
Click to expand...
This doesn't work in context. The Convergence physically connects space across nine galaxies, not through a multiverse (which as a reminder didn't exist when this movie was made).

ParkerKent007 said:
FRACTAL GATEWAYS CONNECTING BRANES:
Click to expand...
Branes are higher dimensional points, but a brane on its own is only indicates a Tier 2 rating without more to it. Since it's just mathematics related to plotting a higher dimensional point.

ParkerKent007 said:
SCHRODINGER'S CAT:
Click to expand...
The ultimate issue here is that Schrodinger'a Cat is misunderstood. What it means is that while they're can be an infinite amount of theoretical things, once view they become define and permanent. There's nothing higher than Low 2-C here, because only a singular variation of the cat can ever be true.

In other words everything mentioned here is already handled by a 2-A multiverse located within a Low 1-C space with an infinite amount of other 2-A multiverses. There's nothing 1-A about these statements.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
No level of cross scaling like this is allowed. The MCU is the MCU and has no authority over those other properties. The only thing that shares its canon is the Marvel comics and the MCU is relegated to its own personal multiverse space.


This doesn't work in context. The Convergence physically connects space across nine galaxies, not through a multiverse (which as a reminder didn't exist when this movie was made).


Branes are higher dimensional points, but a brane on its own is only indicates a Tier 2 rating without more to it. Since it's just mathematics related to plotting a higher dimensional point.


The ultimate issue here is that Schrodinger'a Cat is misunderstood. What it means is that while they're can be an infinite amount of theoretical things, once view they become define and permanent. There's nothing higher than Low 2-C here, because only a singular variation of the cat can ever be true.

In other words everything mentioned here is already handled by a 2-A multiverse located within a Low 1-C space with an infinite amount of other 2-A multiverses. There's nothing 1-A about these statements.
Click to expand...
Salvation is here.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
No level of cross scaling like this is allowed. The MCU is the MCU and has no authority over those other properties. The only thing that shares its canon is the Marvel comics and the MCU is relegated to its own personal multiverse space.


This doesn't work in context. The Convergence physically connects space across nine galaxies, not through a multiverse (which as a reminder didn't exist when this movie was made).


Branes are higher dimensional points, but a brane on its own is only indicates a Tier 2 rating without more to it. Since it's just mathematics related to plotting a higher dimensional point.


The ultimate issue here is that Schrodinger'a Cat is misunderstood. What it means is that while they're can be an infinite amount of theoretical things, once view they become define and permanent. There's nothing higher than Low 2-C here, because only a singular variation of the cat can ever be true.

In other words everything mentioned here is already handled by a 2-A multiverse located within a Low 1-C space with an infinite amount of other 2-A multiverses. There's nothing 1-A about these statements.
Click to expand...
To clarify:

1. I said "HWR already soloed a version of your favorite multiverse and a version of anybody in any multiverse in all of fiction -- by definition of his actions, and the onscreen physics of the MCU. Literally means HWR has beaten someone who looks, behaves, and has the exact same powers as any and all versions of ..."

So obviously not the same characters in separate works of fiction, but their identical in-work MCU multiverse counterparts who operate the same way as the original characters in separate works of fiction.

2. MCU explicitly adheres to the Hugh Everett many-worlds theory, as proven here:

https://mashable.com/article/antman-quantumania-mark-everett-oliver-cameo

"Credited as Jogger With Dog, Mark Oliver Everett appears in Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania's opening sequence ... He's also the son of the late Hugh Everett III, the physicist who came up with the Many Worlds Theory of quantum mechanics ..."





MODOK tells Scott as he splits to into alternate selves, "It's a probability storm. Every choice you could make existing all at once ... You're inside Schrodinger's box and you're the cat."

3. In Everett's version of Schrodinger's Cat, more than one variation can be true:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat#Many-worlds_interpretation_and_consistent_histories

"In 1957, Hugh Everett formulated the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, which does not single out observation as a special process. In the many-worlds interpretation, both alive and dead states of the cat persist after the box is opened, but are decoherent from each other. In other words, when the box is opened, the observer and the possibly-dead cat split into an observer looking at a box with a dead cat and an observer looking at a box with a live cat."

4. The Convergence did in fact involve the multiverse. Astrophysicist Jane Foster says onscreen, "The very fabric of reality is going to be torn apart."





That's not just a random statement. A very popular 1998 book by Oxford University physicist David Deutsch is titled "The Fabric of Reality" that covers the multiverse:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fabric_of_Reality


Amazon product ASIN 014027541X

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/10/david-deutsch-multiverse-fabric-reality
 
ParkerKent007 said:
To clarify:

1. I said "HWR already soloed a version of your favorite multiverse and a version of anybody in any multiverse in all of fiction -- by definition of his actions, and the onscreen physics of the MCU. Literally means HWR has beaten someone who looks, behaves, and has the exact same powers as any and all versions of ..."

So obviously not the same characters in separate works of fiction, but their identical in-work MCU multiverse counterparts who operate the same way as the original characters in separate works of fiction.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter, its still severe amounts of cross scaling that you may N E V E R do here
 
ParkerKent007 said:
So obviously not the same characters in separate works of fiction, but their identical in-work MCU multiverse counterparts who operate the same way as the original characters in separate works of fiction.
Click to expand...
The issue being that they can't have the same level of power unless you prove they have the same level of power. The MCU cannot own other properties and the wiki has universally and historically banned any type of all fiction scaling like you're suggesting.

ParkerKent007 said:
MODOK tells Scott as he splits to into alternate selves, "It's a probability storm. Every choice you could make existing all at once ... You're inside Schrodinger's box and you're the cat."
Click to expand...
Which is what I said and what the cat means. There's infinite possible variations but only one is ever going to be real. That's how that thought experiment works.

ParkerKent007 said:
Everett's version of Schrodinger's Cat, more than one variation can be true:
Click to expand...
While Everett's version has that, Schrodinger's does not. Everett's version is what the MCU currently uses and is solely a 2-A justification.

ParkerKent007 said:
The Convergence did in fact involve the multiverse. Astrophysicist Jane Foster says onscreen, "The very fabric of reality is going to be torn apart."
Click to expand...
It was torn, but look at the movie itself. The only realms effect were 9 galaxies and the goal of the main villain was to turn a singular universe into a different state of matter. It's a solely universe-sized event.

ParkerKent007 said:
The Fabric of Reality" that covers the multiverse:
Click to expand...
Her quote is a generic quote about something effecting space, it's not a reference to a 1998 novel.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Why hasn't this been closed yet
Click to expand...
I wanted to explain to the OP on why the upgrade isn't going to happen without just closing it.

EDIT: Wait, this is the solar system busting Thor guy again. Anyways I'll close this based on the OP's request.
 
ParkerKent007 said:
To clarify:

1. I said "HWR already soloed a version of your favorite multiverse and a version of anybody in any multiverse in all of fiction -- by definition of his actions, and the onscreen physics of the MCU. Literally means HWR has beaten someone who looks, behaves, and has the exact same powers as any and all versions of ..."

So obviously not the same characters in separate works of fiction, but their identical in-work MCU multiverse counterparts who operate the same way as the original characters in separate works of fiction.
Click to expand...
That opens a can of worms you can not begin to fathom.

Let's say, for the sake of an argument, that what your say is accurate. Ok so the MCU is now Tier 0, as it should have MCU Counterparts of Azatoth, Yog-Sothoth, SCP-001, Jehovah, etc.

But, now we have an issue, because in WoD (World of Darkness) they also follow the Many-worlds interpretation, and in fact, even have Type 4 Multiverses, which are even larger than the Type 3 Multiverse you are arguing for in the MCU.

So does the MCU have its own version of WoD, or does WoD have its own version of the MCU? Or do they both contain one another? And what if there are other verses that have Type 3 & Type 4 Multiverses? Does it become a paradox? Or a recursion loop?

See this is why we don't do cross scaling. Cause this effects more than this singular verse, it affects all the verses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

ThanatosX
  • Locked
MCU Cosmology Upgrade – It’s about Time
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
Dereck03
Dereck03
RoTt35
  • Locked
MCU Multiverse Downgrade
Replies
27
Views
3K
Planck69
Planck69
RoTt35
MCU Cosmology Update
Replies
19
Views
3K
BEYONDER19999
BEYONDER19999
Why don't Spider-Verse characters have dimensional travel range across the entire Marvel Multiverse?
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
Sir_Ovens
Sir_Ovens
  • Locked
3-B MCU Thor (Onscreen + WoG Proofs)
Replies
3
Views
684
Propellus
Propellus
Back
Top