- 18,393
- 14,311
OP was legit trying to apply the changes without even a positive conclusion?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Massive Source Downgrades (Maou Gakuin)
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
- Start date
-
- Tags
- maou gakuin
- Status
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #282
We did reach a positive conclusion. Type 2 concepts and type 2 info are going. As no evidence has been provided of HGR, that will go too. If there are any characters who have HGR not reliant on regenerating their sources, now would be the time to list them (or, y'know... just give evidence that sources are harder to regen than type 1/2 concepts).
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,128
- 11,008
Buddy character can think and act with sources which are fundamental concepts which also stores ones Existence via memories which are abstact information which forms the building blocks of one's Existence.
Insufficient hax? What hax ? Why don't you show information type 1 Regenerating someone from soul and mind destruction?
- 19,403
- 10,011
@Dog3352 a thread being terminated means it's not rejected tho, second that's a much older thread compared to what I posted, which again the arguments applied over to the concept page as we clearly see.
@ImmortalDread she's only applying stuff that's been accepted.
@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara you might need one more staff input on the regen for that to be applied since I'm neutral on the whole thing.
@ImmortalDread she's only applying stuff that's been accepted.
@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara you might need one more staff input on the regen for that to be applied since I'm neutral on the whole thing.
- 19,403
- 10,011
@EldemadeDityjon none of the scans you have for info hax really tells me anything on it being literal type 2 information.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,128
- 11,008
Why don't you explain how information type 1 gives you Regeneration?
- 1,224
- 690
Lmao? See the topic, the description says that it is a continuation of the previous topic, because it was not finished, and the topic in the link of the one I posted is the same one that you posted. Literally said that the topic was not finished, nor fully decided, what I posted and the continuation of what you posted.
The topic you posted started in September 2021, the one I posted not only says in the description itself that it is a continuation of the topic you posted, it also says it is not finished, it also starts in November 2021, and ends in 2022.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,920
- 5,841
Because 3 to 1 is acceptable for voting.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,128
- 11,008
Who agreed ? Have you even waited for dereck to comment on this ? DDM also Disagrees maveric literally said neutral. This thread hasn't been active for 2 days. Nice way to push it without consulting staff who are knowledgeable for their own profit.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #290
Fair enough. I'll make a followup thread after the edits are done, unless other staff members want to comment or change their minds.
- 18,393
- 14,311
? I see 3:2 in her profile. And this goes against multiple policies
- 19,403
- 10,011
@EldemadeDityjon what part of type 1 info is remotely a thing here?
@Dog3352 so you’re not going to address how the thread I linked has it’s arguments repeated in the page, ok.
@Dog3352 so you’re not going to address how the thread I linked has it’s arguments repeated in the page, ok.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,128
- 11,008
2:2. Maverick didn't say fully agreed. OP literally trying to push it.
- 22,572
- 13,849
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,920
- 5,841
Dereck's or content mods votes do not count in Content revision threads
- 19,403
- 10,011
@EldemadeDityjon that's still agreeing, otherwise Maverick would’ve just said neutral.
- 18,393
- 14,311
@PrinceofPein
Still want to talk? Unless you are ignoring Dereck for not being a knowledgeable member of the verse.
Still want to talk? Unless you are ignoring Dereck for not being a knowledgeable member of the verse.
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,037
- 3,203
maverick is leaning agree but neutral so counting that as agree isn't fair
would it hurt someone to wait instead of just rushing with your grace period
this isn't a vsmatch
he needs to follow up
would it hurt someone to wait instead of just rushing with your grace period
this isn't a vsmatch
this isn't an agreement.
he needs to follow up
- 18,393
- 14,311
Also, this is involving big or controversial changes to the verse, 2:2 is not definitely enough for applying any changes.
- 1,224
- 690
Topic I posted: It is a continuation of the topic you showed, and newer than yours (started in December 2021 and ended in 2022, yours started in September 2021 and ended in the same month), and also your topic and said to be a continuation of the incomplete topic you posted.
"The topic of this discussion is in regards to how we treat conceptual manipulation and is sort of stemming from the current JjK hax revisions thread, and this incomplete thread discussing some of the concepts I am touching upon today."
In addition to the conversations of the admins themselves (and other users) that I showed, which demonstrate that I was not wrong, the description of HGR and basically the explanation of what is the source.
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.
And being portrayed as either a Type 2 or Type 1 concept.
My arguments are the conversations between the admins and other users, the topic and conversations that decided how the CM works, being just things accepted by the admins and users themselves, yours is just an unfinished topic that was created a continuation to clarify more about the CM.
My topic posted>>>>>>>>>>your topics in every way (except being worse, of course)
Besides the but, the same person who applied the change to the CM page is the same person who said this:
"I made further changes to make it so that concepts don't need to be universal in AoE anymore. I hope the formulation is ok."
- 18,393
- 14,311
Ya, I feel it is unfair to apply the changes right now. If this was Elden Ring revision or any big verse, you would not pass it with 3:2 at all, let alone 3:1 and there are still arguments in this thread.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #302
3:2 is good enough, yes. Glass has already called staff, so if none of them are interested in evaluating this, then there's not much to do but accept the votes we have now.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #303
So we should just ignore a majority vote because the revision is significant? Not how that works.
- 18,393
- 14,311
Fuji, I feel there is vote manipulation right now, give it up or I will move this to RvR
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #305
Vote manipulation is when you count the votes normally, I guess. Glass already told you the votes are fine as they are.
- 18,393
- 14,311
Multiple people here stated that her stance is not clear, therefore neutral stance. You can't take it as a full agreement to every downgrade. It is 2:2
- 18,393
- 14,311
Also, I would request from you to count blue names in your OP.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #308
I'm choosing the include only staff votes since they are the only ones deciding anything here.
Her stance is "leaning agree" so I counted it as agreement. It is more in favor of the downgrade than against it. She's free to correct me or say if she's changed her opinion if she wants.
- 18,393
- 14,311
Sure, we can for more staff attention as well. I don't see any need for rush.
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,037
- 3,203
Dread's vote should hold weigh here. She's very knowledgable with Maou Gakuin similarly to dereck
And seeing there are staff disagreement between staff it would need more additional staff members.
Calling Celestial Pegasus might help here since he is very knowledgable and familiar with this verse and similar verses.
again rushing revision is never suggested
- 18,393
- 14,311
Not sure why she was rushing.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,128
- 11,008
May be she is just scared that only glass & planks support her claim & other staff might disagree.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,128
- 11,008
Elizha has been constantly involved with many of the MG threads he/she is definitely more knowledgeable than any staff who agreed with OP. He/she should be pinged too.
- 1,224
- 690
Since now we're probably just going to wait until I get more votes, I want to make it clear why I disagree, and why my words are right.
I not only spent the whole thread saying that to be CM type 1 or 2 no is about "major scale" or "universal scale", I said that what you need is "fundamentality" or "governing on basic fundamentals/minor concepts", and I'm going to prove that what I was saying was right.
First proof: The last conversation of an entire review in CM was in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/conceptual-manipulation-clarifications-revisions.128012/page-3
Where did I get these conversations from:
In the first, it says that the concept does not need to be universal to be type 1 or 2, saying that the concept being universal does not make it a type 1 or 2 concept (it was before, but after this topic, no is longer a requirement)
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
Another "confirmation" that universal scale or reality scale is not needed.
And also the explanation from the source is almost like a copy of the explanation of what the HGR is (is treated as CM 2).
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.
I not only spent the whole thread saying that to be CM type 1 or 2 no is about "major scale" or "universal scale", I said that what you need is "fundamentality" or "governing on basic fundamentals/minor concepts", and I'm going to prove that what I was saying was right.
First proof: The last conversation of an entire review in CM was in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/conceptual-manipulation-clarifications-revisions.128012/page-3
Where did I get these conversations from:
In the first, it says that the concept does not need to be universal to be type 1 or 2, saying that the concept being universal does not make it a type 1 or 2 concept (it was before, but after this topic, no is longer a requirement)
The second and third, it is said that a concept that has no specification (example in the conversation itself), is more likely to be a type 3 CM.
This is literally a direct confirmation that the concept does not need to have universal scale in order to be CM type 1 or 2, saying that something like "universal AoE" is not necessary (making it very clear that universal AoE or universal scale is not required to be type 2 or 1).
Extra proof: This confirmation has a link that goes straight to the revisions, in the penultimate and ante-penultimate changes (revisions), they take out words like "govern the universe" or "govern reality", taking out universal scales, and replacing them with words like "govern reality in all its area" or "govern reality in all area that the concept governs" (making it clear once again that you don't need universal AoE to be CM type 2 or 1).
Conceptual Manipulation
Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Conceptual Manipulation
Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Another "confirmation" that universal scale or reality scale is not needed.
And also the explanation from the source is almost like a copy of the explanation of what the HGR is (is treated as CM 2).
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.
Last edited:
- 18,393
- 14,311
The thread is not done, so I don't think it's a good idea to apply any changes.
@Theglassman12 Are you going to ping for additional staff members as the policy above stated?
I still request blue names to be counted, you can actually color the staff members, so people can see the difference.
@Theglassman12 Are you going to ping for additional staff members as the policy above stated?
I still request blue names to be counted, you can actually color the staff members, so people can see the difference.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #317
I can drop HGR for now and just make a thread on that later. I'll continue waiting for staff and probably just apply the edits over the weekend if nobody shows up.
- 18,393
- 14,311
You need to wait till @Theglassman12 pings the relevant staff members and then change the edits. Only because the thread dies, does not give you any right to apply any changes.
Also, there are still open arguments here.
- 5,683
- 3,210
No, that would be a headache. It's better to find a solution for that here and it will make things much easier and quick
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
- Thread starter
- #320
We're 4 pages into this thread and HGR wasn't even discussed until page 3-4. It would be easier to make a new thread recompiling the relevant information for the sake of understanding.
...Yeah, I said I would wait. But my patience isn't infinite, and I could apply the changes tonight if I wanted to. It has nothing to do with the thread dying.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
