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Massive Source Downgrades (Maou Gakuin)

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Well, I do have permission from Glass to apply the concept/info downgrades, so I guess I can do that now?
image.png
"and most staff is on my side"

Yes, No. You only have a single vote my friendly, don't try to manipulate the vote and people.
 
@Artorimachi_Meteoraft stop derailing the thread. If you don't have anything to contribute beyond trying to pry for my private information then stop commenting.

@Dog3352 The DC heralds CRT where some of the people leaning into agreeing counts for one or the other would like to talk to you, but if you want me to get more staff I can get more to comment.

@Qawsedf234 @Maverick_Zero_X Can you guys give input on whether or not this is a type 3 concept?
 
bro?

I was just giving more context to that screenshot because you misunderstood what I said. No need to act like an ass over me explaining something to you.
I'm not "acting stupid", I just didn't "ask normally", I'm not cussing you out, I just want to know why the hell you're commenting on another topic of another verse here.
 
@Dog3352 The DC heralds CRT where some of the people leaning into agreeing counts for one or the other would like to talk to you, but if you want me to get more staff I can get more to comment.
This has 0 meanings.
Are you saying that someone who didn't agree actually agreed only because he was inclined to agree, doesn't the person have the slightest right to pass the final verdict and say whether he really agrees or not?
And yes, call more people to comment here, we've been asking for this since yesterday.
 
If there nothing more to the OP then it's type 3, but not because it doesn't have a past. A concept of an individual human will always just he Type 3. It's only Type 2 if its a broader concept like "humanity" or something along those lines.
The last conversation of an entire review in CM was in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/threads/conceptual-manipulation-clarifications-revisions.128012/page-3

Where did I get these conversations from:

In the first, it says that the concept does not need to be universal to be type 1 or 2, saying that the concept being universal does not make it a type 1 or 2 concept (it was before, but after this topic, no is longer a requirement)
"So that we're clear: We agree that changing an abstraction in a fashion that affects reality is not Type 1 or 2, unless said abstraction has demonstrated being the fundamental source of a property?"

"Yeah sure, I guess."
The second and third, it is said that a concept that has no specification (example in the conversation itself), is more likely to be a type 3 CM.
"It would make it easier to classify cases where it is not very clear whether they are Type 1 or 2 concept manip, though. Not all fiction is very clear on the matter. Concepts (or other abstractions) frequently are manipulated without really explaining what their nature is in deta
"What would your alternative suggestion regarding Type 3 be?"

"I still think about keeping type 3 for some kind of safe zone. For example, a character name Toujo Basara, he is said to have a conceptual attack, but nothing more than that; and Siren from Azur Lane, they said that they can control the very fundamental, concept part of the pocket dimension they create, but nothing more than that, and we can't just assume they automatically govern reality universally. Or Tobio from Highschool DxD, he can destroy the concept of magic."

"That's what I meant."
This is literally a direct confirmation that the concept does not need to have universal scale in order to be CM type 1 or 2, saying that something like "universal AoE" is not necessary (making it very clear that universal AoE or universal scale is not required to be type 2 or 1).
Extra proof: This confirmation has a link that goes straight to the revisions, in the penultimate and ante-penultimate changes (revisions), they take out words like "govern the universe" or "govern reality", taking out universal scales, and replacing them with words like "govern reality in all its area" or "govern reality in all area that the concept governs" (making it clear once again that you don't need universal AoE to be CM type 2 or 1).

Another "confirmation" that universal scale or reality scale is not needed.
I don't like the ""universal"" label. Its gives a strong impression that range/AoE is the prime factor in deciding the type of concept. I am sure we pretty much agreed that range/AoE is a complete non-factor in deciding the Type/Nature of Concept.

And also the explanation from the source is almost like a copy of the explanation of what the HGR is (is treated as CM 2).

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.
 
If there nothing more to the OP then it's type 3, but not because it doesn't have a past. A concept of an individual human will always just he Type 3. It's only Type 2 if its a broader concept like "humanity" or something along those lines.
This is nothing more than AoE, it was already said in the last CRT review of CM that I don't need big AoE or something, but fundamentalism.
 
@Dog3352 You do realize ignoring the thread I posted where what the staff discussed about what the concepts are, something that's applied to the pages isn't helping you right?
And then you realize that the change made was the one to the CRT that I posted.

I made further changes to make it so that concepts don't need to be universal in AoE anymore. I hope the formulation is ok.

 
I said that what you need is "fundamentality" or "governing on basic fundamentals/minor concepts", and I'm going to prove that what I was saying was right.
The page itself states this
Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon.
And more importantly this
These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself.
A person's future being erased, but only that person and only in the present and not retroactively, is Type 3.

The High-Godly Regen stuff even notes that you can get the rating with Type 3, it's just more difficult.
 
@Dog3352 And yet governing reality is still in the page, I wonder why, maybe because that's still what's needed for type 2 and 1 concepts.
Lmao. See the changes.

pre-review:
Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object in the same way the concept itself was changed, effectively altering reality on a universal, if not higher, scale.
Pos-review:
Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object linked to it in the same way the concept itself was changed.
Pre-review:
'''1. Independent Universal Concepts:''' Such concepts are completely independent from the reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
Pos-review:
'''1. Independent Universal Concepts:''' Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
pre-review:
'''2. Dependent Concepts:''' Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality.
pos-review
'''2. Dependent Concepts:''' Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence
 
Before the revision, they made it very clear that it MUST be a universal AoE to be type 1 or 2, but after the CRT revision I posted, they changed the explanation, changing words like "govern all reality" to "govern all reality within their area of influence"
 
@Dog3352 You do realize you're shooting yourself in the foot the more and more you show me the page where it says shape all of reality right? Constantly showing me the page where it says what I've been saying throughout this thread isn't helping you.

Either way 3 staff members agreed with this thread, (or 3.5 if we're being semantic) so the changes can be applied.
 
@Dog3352 You do realize you're shooting yourself in the foot the more and more you show me the page where it says shape all of reality right? Constantly showing me the page where it says what I've been saying throughout this thread isn't helping you.

Either way 3 staff members agreed with this thread, (or 3.5 if we're being semantic) so the changes can be applied.
"governs all reality" to "All reality whitin THEIR AREA OF INFLUENCE"

It's literally in the CRT itself, in the changes made, and in the CRT admins and users' own words, you are just IGNORING A FACT.
 
@Dog3352 that doesn't really change anything, Death governs all of reality within its area of influence, it still governs reality by default which makes it a type 2 concept.
 
...Ignorant.

The admins themselves agreeing that you DON'T NEED to have universal AoE to be type 1 or 2.
"So that we're clear: We agree that changing an abstraction in a fashion that affects reality is not Type 1 or 2, unless said abstraction has demonstrated being the fundamental source of a property?"

"Yeah sure, I guess."
This is literally a direct confirmation that the concept does not need to have universal scale in order to be CM type 1 or 2, saying that something like "universal AoE" is not necessary (making it very clear that universal AoE or universal scale is not required to be type 2 or 1).

I made further changes to make it so that concepts don't need to be universal in AoE anymore. I hope the formulation is ok.

This said by the same person who applied the changes...

Extra proof: This confirmation has a link that goes straight to the revisions, in the penultimate and ante-penultimate changes (revisions), they take out words like "govern the universe" or "govern reality", taking out universal scales, and replacing them with words like "govern reality in all its area" or "govern reality in all area that the concept governs" (making it clear once again that you don't need universal AoE to be CM type 2 or 1).

pre-review:
Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object in the same way the concept itself was changed, effectively altering reality on a universal, if not higher, scale.
Pos-review:
Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object linked to it in the same way the concept itself was changed.
Pre-review:
'''1. Independent Universal Concepts:''' Such concepts are completely independent from the reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
Pos-review:
'''1. Independent Universal Concepts:''' Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
pre-review:
'''2. Dependent Concepts:''' Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality.
pos-review
'''2. Dependent Concepts:''' Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence
The changes were made to make it clear that it no longer takes Universal AoE to be type 1 or 2...but you are simply too ignorant to even notice the obvious...
 
@Dog3352 that doesn't really change anything, Death governs all of reality within its area of influence, it still governs reality by default which makes it a type 2 concept.
Now READ the difference between one explanation and the other.

pre-review:
Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object in the same way the concept itself was changed, effectively altering reality on a universal, if not higher, scale.
Pos-review:
Each concept is linked with its respective "object". In this way, altering the concept will change every object linked to it in the same way the concept itself was changed.
Pre-review:
'''1. Independent Universal Concepts:''' Such concepts are completely independent from the reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
Pos-review:
'''1. Independent Universal Concepts:''' Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
pre-review:
'''2. Dependent Concepts:''' Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality.
pos-review
'''2. Dependent Concepts:''' Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence

Changes made by the same person who said this:

I made further changes to make it so that concepts don't need to be universal in AoE anymore. I hope the formulation is ok.

Before the changes, it's OBVIOUS even in the explanations that you need to have universal AoE to be type 1 or 2, but after the revision, the explanation was later made for people to see that you don't need to have universal AoE to be type 1 or 2 anymore two.

Like I said, you're just too ignorant to notice the obvious, I bet you're not even reading my answers.
 
@Dog3352 You're not even reading what I'm arguing aren't you? Not even gonna bother entertain this argument if you will not pay attention to what I've said this entire thread.
 
From what I can see nothing Dog has said has real been hostile. Rhe ignorant thing seems to come more frustration than hostility.
I would like you to please take a look at what I said above, and even (only if you want) could you go to the thread where I got these conversations from.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/conceptual-manipulation-clarifications-revisions.128012/page-3

Also, these are some of the admins who followed and accepted the topic:
@DontTalkDT
@Promestein
@Antvasima

I made further changes to make it so that concepts don't need to be universal in AoE anymore. I hope the formulation is ok.
^^^^
By the way, these words and these changes were applied by @DontTalkDT
@Everything12 was also on this CRT, but the things discussed that I posted were only mentioned on the third (last) page, and I only saw his presence on the first and second page, so I don't know if he accompanied by page 3.
 
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@Dog3352 You're not even reading what I'm arguing aren't you? Not even gonna bother entertain this argument if you will not pay attention to what I've said this entire thread.
You're just proving me right, and besides, most of your words are the same, saying I need to "govern all reality" or "govern the the universe".
 
Quote me where I said the universe right now. If you can’t then you’re essentially strawmanning me
 
From what I can see nothing Dog has said has real been hostile. Rhe ignorant thing seems to come more frustration than hostility.
Not only that part, he has actually been hostile towards Glass previously in the course of the thread, that was the third time so I had to call him out on that
Are you the administrator who cannot understand the obvious...? Lmao.

Seriously admin? Do I trim explanations to make it sound like I'm lying? fufufu what a low blow for an admin.
 
Not only that part, he has actually been hostile towards Glass previously in the course of the thread, that was the third time so I had to call him out on that
I went "hostile", because he was manipulating the text to look like something else, and it wasn't "hostility", I wanted an explanation of why he was doing this.
And did you really look for a time when I was hostile just for that?
I don't like idiots, ignorant or manipulators, they pissed me off, I was pissed off, and wanted explanations for what he was doing.
 
So you’re calling me an idiot now? Ok, good luck trying to convince me that your side is right if ad Hominem is your option against disagreements
 
So you’re calling me an idiot now? Ok, good luck trying to convince me that your side is right if ad Hominem is your option against disagreements
I think you misunderstood my text, I said that these are the types of people I hate the most, not that you are that type of person.
Ignorant? You proved to be.
Idiot? Not from my point of view.
Manipulator? Only once.
 
When several staff members are telling you this doesn't qualify for type 2 because it's not a concept that governs reality, only one that covers a specific individual, this whole "ignorant" card flies out the window because you're basically calling every staff member ignorant, which isn't a good look for you if you want to convince us this is type 2 or 1 concept.
 
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