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Massive MCU revision

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It says he has Hypersonic+ reactions but it gives no link or calc to justify the rating. It just says it happened, which is one of the worst profile justifications possible.
 
I checked one of McClane's feats, but he doesn't physically outpace any. If anything, he usually gets tagged by them and only dodges by ducking into cover, which anyone can do so to save themselves from explosions.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It says he has Hypersonic+ reactions but it gives no link or calc to justify the rating. It just says it happened, which is one of the worst profile justifications possible.
Click to expand...
You can ask Kep about it.
 
NVM got it. But we'll have to wait for the movie to see where Hawkeye was when he ran from the explosion.
 
Durability doesn't matter if you're holding back or not, so Cap did stagger him with a kick, and Iron Man blasted him (though with weaponry only)
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
The fact he was able to slightly stagger him was impressive enough, as Loki is High 7-C.
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Loki is not a brick wall that his body won't naturally sway a bit against an external force. Especially one that hit him high and away from his feet.

I agree with that. Cap shouldn't be thousands of times weaker.

We agree there, but the scaling is still weird between Cap not doing any more than punching holes in concrete walls and hanging there with people who can punch other people high into a second storey window.

I always thought 7-A Corvus was iffy, but Matthew thinks Corvus being matched by Cap is PIS.

Corvus has little else beside outmatching Cap and manhandling Vision who at that point can do little more than carry his weight into someone's general direction.

So you're saying that Cap was blitzing Iron Man? Also, skill only gets you so far. When the knight hits the boxer he knocks him out. And especially when Iron Man is thousands of times stronger he would have instantly murdered Cap on the spot.

I'm saying that the skill gap is what allows Cap to throw punches unhindered. Iron Man can't get a hit in if he keeps flinching backwards and any that he throws gets blocked by the shield. That said, Cap still hasn't done any damage at all. Only that he tanked normal punches from Iron Man, whose AP tends to be based on attacks he uses momentum on.
 
Loki is High 7-C anyway, so that probably matters little.

Yes, but still Ultron shouldn't be thousands of times stronger than Cap. Makes no sense at all.

Didn't Corvus only really harm Vision with his Glaive though?

The skill gap doesn't matter much, if Iron Man can instantly murder Cap with a punch. And if overwhelming someone with punches is not enough, Bucky did force Tony's arm upwards which is blatantly overpowering him strength.
 
Captain Marvel Strength
Captain Marvel stopping the missile seems a KE feat. Stopping a building sized object heading at hypersonic+ speeds
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Didn't Corvus only really harm Vision with his Glaive though?
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He took a couple hits from him without harm so there's that. It could be a case of durability being much higher than AP.

Revan Laha said:
Captain Marvel stopping the missile seems a KE feat. Stopping a building sized object heading at hypersonic+ speeds
Click to expand...
We don't know how massive the missile is. It could be way heavier than it looks.
 
This calc, even if accepted, doesn't change the large scaling issues with Captain America and other Super Soldiers. Not to mention despite one throwaway line saying Deathlok is weaker, if his feats are better then he's just better. His formula is even an improved version of what Cap was given in-universe.
 
Deathlok didn't fight 8-A characters while Cap did. Cap shouldn't be that much lower than 8-A characters. It makes no sense whatsoever for him to be thousands of times weaker.
 
And frankly I don't think there is any scaling issue if we scale Cap to Iron Man. His 9-B and 9-A feats were all quite casual, and attack potency is the potency behind an attack, not destructive capacity. The only valid anti-feat is the helicopter one, which is already PIS.
 
Captain America has scaling that doesn't match his typical portrayal and feats. We don't rate 616 Captain America at 4-B or Prime Earth Superman at Tier 2 for similar reasons. Having some scaling doesn't justify a rating if its not consistent with their standard portrayed power. MCU Cap just isn't Tier 8.
 
MCU Cap is consistently portrayed on the level of Tier 8 characters. Him "just isn't" is merely an argument from incredibility, that people feel that Cap is just a "peak human". 616 Cap is Tier 8 as well despite it "feels high". I could say the same thing to anything, that Tier 6 Hulk "feels wrong" and Tier 8 Iron Man "just isn't".
 
> MCU Cap is consistently portrayed on the level of Tier 8 characters

He's isn't. His "high end" showings are being consistently unable to harm Tier 8 and Tier 7 characters to any degree and getting injured by far weaker things. He just isn't as strong as you're saying he is.
 
You can't say that he isn't Tier 8 when he scales to such characters.

And no one cares how the character is portrayed by the author.Authors,especially from Marvel and DC don't give a crap about AP and staff like that.Sometimes characters show casual Planet Level feats and then a minute later be impressed by a mountain busting attack.

Frieza threatened Toppo with an attack that can destroy even a whole planet -cough-,Dyspo is Lightspeed -cough-., Buller Level Goku -cough-, Sword Level Naruto -cough-

My point is:If the character shows enough strength to rival a certain tier,he should be that tier.
 
But he doesn't show that strength. He shows that he's incapable of harming them and shows much lower ceilings consistently.
 
And this is not the first time I brought up this. Cap has fought Loki, Ultron, Iron Man, Corvus Glaive, Spider-Man (who fought Cull Obsidian without the Iron Spider suit), not to mention briefly holding back Thanos.

I think it is best to bring up all that feats you mentioned.If Cap can really harm them or tank their attacks he should be upgraded,but for now you just only named the feats.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
But he doesn't show that strength. He shows that he's incapable of harming them and shows much lower ceilings consistently.
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Iron Man was being overwhelmed by his attacks, with FRIDAY literally saying that Cap would beat him hand-to-hand eventually. Bucky was able to force Iron Man's hand upwards, and if they were that far apart Iron Man would murder them in one punch.

It could be a case of Iron Man having durability higher than strength, but Cap was clearly nearly comparable in terms of physical strength.
 
Captain America does not scale to Thanos in any way.

He was able to slightly stagger Loki with a kick, but Loki is High 7-C anyway.

For Cap vs Ultron:

  • He took a push from Ultron's telekinesis.
  • Took blasts to the chest.
  • Briefly overpowered Ultron and threw him into a concrete pillar.
  • He got choked by Ultron and attempted to choke him back as well.
  • Finger beams to the chest again.
  • A punch to the helm.
  • Shoved into a train.
Cap (and Bucky) vs Iron Man

  • Bucky stopped Iron Man's efforts to try and shoot him in the face, as well as crushing the gauntlet with his bionic arm
  • Cap took blasts from Iron Man
  • Bucky overpowered Iron Man's arm, pushed him against a wall and nearly ripped his arc reactor out
  • Cap forced Iron Man towards a wall and pummelled him, with FRIDAY stating that Iron Man can't beat him hand-to-hand
  • Takes more blasts from Iron Man
If you think a thousand-times-weaker character is capable of not getting instantly murdered against a thousand-times-stronger character, then I don't know what to say to you.
 
Iron Man was being overwhelmed by his attacks

Due to a massive skill gap between the two. It had nothing to do with strength

FRIDAY literally saying that Cap would beat him hand-to-hand eventually

She did not. She just said that Iron Man couldn't beat him in hand to hand combat. Even if she did say that, him winning would be entirely due to the shield being able to damage Iron Man's armor

Bucky was able to force Iron Man's hand upwards, and if they were that far apart Iron Man would murder them in one punch.

You're right about all of this, which is why when Civil War came out it was established that its extremely inconsistent scaling wise. Iron Man in that particular movie has a multiple of anti-feats even. Such as a reflected repulsor blast disabling his targeting system or a falling car giving him internal damage

but Cap was clearly nearly comparable in terms of physical strength.

Even if he was, that's inconsistent with his other portrayals both in the movie and in the franchise
 
If you think a thousand-times-weaker character is capable of not getting instantly murdered against a thousand-times-stronger character, then I don't know what to say to you.

I think its a text book case of this in actio
 
People tryna scale Cap to Thanos? Wut?
 
The "skill gap" is also bullshit. It matters not how skilful you are when you're facing an opponent thousands of times stronger. One punch and you're dead.
 
And he is consistently portrayed as nearly comparable to Iron Man-level characters, I don't get how it is inconsistent. If he shows strength that rivals another tier, he scales.
 
I think its a text book case of this in actio

"Just because a certain character displays a certain extreme degree of power in one instance doesn't imply that they will remotely possess the same scale of power in another, and that we can automatically scale another character from the higher end feat."

Cap is consistently near the level of 8-A characters though, with not as much anti-feats (IIRC the only tier 9 feats he struggled with is the helicopter one and tanking explosions), unlike comic characters.
 
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