Massive Magi revision.

[-BANLK-]

Not really massive actually......

1) Freezing a desert feat.

Anyone who has read the manga would know that Sinbad did not freeze the entire desert, he was merely talking about the power of the djinn vessel in general. Read the chapter here. Due to this the 6-B rating is wrong since it assumed Sinbad froze the entire desert. But since Sinbad was just demonstrating his power and not trying to cover the entire desert in ice, he also has no reason to lie about a djinn vessel's power and also the fact that he has a casual High 6-C feat makes me think that "High 6-C, likely 6-B" would be the best tier for him.

2) Powerlevels.

Almost every metal vessel users have comparable strength therefore all the metal vessel users should have the same tier as Sinbad.

3) Weapon equip.

Currently Alibaba is rated as 7-B in weapon equip, it should be changed to "High 6-C, likely 6-B", since Kougyoku made a huge hole on Ugo with her weapon equip, Alibaba stopping Muu's Barbados with his weapon equip is also another feat. And even with his beginning of the series knife Alibaba penetrated Judar's borg .

 

[-BANLK-]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this seems to make sense, but we need more input first. You can check the Knowledgeable Members List for people that you can ask to comment here.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I agree.

Also, everyone currently at 7-B will be upgraded to High 6-C imo for the same reasons.

The scaling is fine, only the tiers will change I guess

 

[Antvasima]

Why should all of the retainers without Djinns (Ja'far, etcetera) be upgraded from 7-B to High 6-C? I thought that they were considerably less powerful?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I agree. I also think we should change the justification for Morgiana's speed

 

[M3X_2.0]

http://*********.com/Manga/Magi-Sinbad-no-Bouken/Ch-110?id=303736#8

Should not this be taken into account for the Country level?

 

[-BANLK-]

@M3X If you mean by "Can destroy an entire country overnight" then it is not 6-B.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Not really, it was the citation of destroying Sasan. I got the wrong link

 

[-BANLK-]

Why should all of the retainers without Djinns (Ja'far, etcetera) be upgraded from 7-B to High 6-C? I thought that they were considerably less powerful?

Assimilated Household Vessels can harm Metal Vessael users. Though normal household vessels like Masrur and Morgiana are not that powerful. Currently we don't have a profile page for any assimilated household vessel user iirc. Jafar is a half assimilated household vessel user so he maybe far stronger than what we give him credit for.

 

[-BANLK-]

Not really, it was the citation of destroying Sasan. I got the wrong link

Even then Sasan is pretty small.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Basically what BANLK said.

There isn't a hard number of what they borrowed from the main metal vessel, but considering they can harm the metal vessal users, I see no issue.

I say this more as a spitball more so then this needs to happen.

Magi is pretty close with one another in power.

If you are a magi, a metal vessel user or a household user, generally speaking you can keep up with eachother.

With a few exceptions obviously but that seems to be the general rule of thumb.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that makes sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Are you certain that regular household vessel users harming djinn users isn't plot-induced stupidity though?

 

[-BANLK-]

Are you certain that regular household vessel users harming djinn users isn't plot-induced stupidity though?

Household vessel users can harm metal vessel users , it's just that the MV users are considerably more powerful than any HV users.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So you suggest similar ratings then?

Did you use the Knowledgeable Members List?

 

[-BANLK-]

Okay. So you suggest similar ratings then?

Yes, similar ratings but with different justification.

Did you use the Knowledgeable Members List?

No but @Kinkiest already replied.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would prefer more input, especially from other staff members.

 

[-BANLK-]

I asked @TataHakai for his opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[TataHakai]

6-B isn't from the assumption that Sinbad DID freeze the whole desert, it's from Sinbad stating that he CAN cover an entire desert in ice

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Then I think that the 6-B statistics should stay as they are.

 

[-BANLK-]

@TataHakai There is nothing to back up Sinbad's statement, also literally in the same chapter Sinbad states that "With the power of a metal vessel, you can destroy an entire country overnight ". Therefore "High 6-C, likely 6-B" is the most logical tier.

 

[TataHakai]

@TataHakai There is nothing to back up Sinbad's statement, also literally in the same chapter Sinbad states that "With the power of a metal vessel, you can destroy an entire country overnight ". Therefore "High 6-C, likely 6-B" is the most logical tier.

Except for the fact that the verse has half a dozen casual High 6-C feats and even Low 6-B feats from people inferior to Sinbad so the scaling fits the feat.

Sinbad has no reason to lie and hasn't about his power prior to that, there's absolutely no reason to assume this is a hyperbole for the sake of assuming it's a hyperbole.

And statements don't take precedence over feats, if a person destroys a universe in one attack then says he can destroy a universe over time it doesn't not make him universe level, likewise here when we literally know Sinbad can exert country levels of energy.

Oh and by the way countries in Magi are much larger than our own, which our AP charts are made from, so that statement wouldn't support your point anyways, not that it matters since Ohtaka isn't aware of our calcculations and doesn't know how much energy is required to freeze over a desert of that size, so her statements aren't aware of what Sinbad is capable of.

 

[-BANLK-]

And where are these High 6-C and low 6-B feats, can you show me?

 

[TataHakai]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KinkiestSins/Shaking_Sindria

Here's the low 6-B feat done by Barbrossa and some fodder, all inferior massively to Sinbad, check the bottom of the page

 

[-BANLK-]

LOL that's not the current Sindria , its the previous one which is barely the size of a city . There is literally a single High 6-C feat in this whole series and that is done by Sinbad.

 

[TataHakai]

LOL that's not the current Sindria , its the previous one which is barely the size of a city . There is literally a single High 6-C feat in this whole series and that is done by Sinbad.

That's a fair point i missed that

but if there is a High 6-C feat done by Sinbad then that can be used to support the 6-B rating

 

[-BANLK-]

And that is why I have been saying "High 6-C, likely 6-B" is the most logical tier. The main reason why I am against giving straight up 6-B rating is because, in a verse filled with tier 7 feats this single High 6-C feat is not enough to justify the supposed 6-B statement.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think about "At least High 6-C, likely 6-B" Tata?

 

[TataHakai]

Why wouldn't it be? At the time of his statement Sinbad had 2 djinn's which is only something recreated by Hakuryuu and Kouen, he was a literal god tier of the verse at the time so it wouldn't exactly be inconsistent.

All of those tier 7 feats are casually done by fodder who would be flicked away by a serious sinbad, we have plenty of verses where a single statement is used to justify multiple ratings.

DBZ god tiers are Solar system+ based on a statement by Cell when the verse is filled with Planet to Dwarf star level feats, and that's a further gap than Tier 7 to Tier 6.

 

[Antvasima]

Cell had lots of support for being Solar System level from supplementary material though, not just a single statement.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Cell had lots of support for being Solar System level from supplementary material though, not just a single statement.

I agree with Tata, although we might be on different pages

TBH, we have a loose definition of the word 'outlier' and what we considered legitimate or not.

7-B Sinbad is casual.

Most of the tier 7 feats are done by fodder.

The support for the verse being tier 6 is pretty solid if you ask me.

That's just me though. I do think BANLK makes sense though.

I think it is just a matter of being conservative. His High 6-C feat was actually seen.

His 6-B feat was a passing statement that he could, not that we have seen him do.

It really doesn't change the verse that much, it is somewhat similar to GEOM feats being 4-B, but he has 4-A statements and some one-off feats at this level.

You can interpret this as either support for his statement that he could freeze a desert, or use it as a realm of possibility for magi characters.

 

[KinkiestSins]

LOL that's not the current Sindria , its the previous one which is barely the size of a city . There is literally a single High 6-C feat in this whole series and that is done by Sinbad.

Also, my calc is old and outdated, but it can be higher.

That seems to be tata's point.

That said, i dont know anyone who wants to properly calculate an earthquake/shaking sindria.

My calc is admitedly messy.

 

[Antvasima]

On second thought, I am fine with BANLK's suggestion.

 

[TataHakai]

Cell had lots of support for being Solar System level from supplementary material though, not just a single statement.

Fair point, i don't mind BANLK's suggestion but if his reasoning is "it's not consistent" then i don't agree with that, Sinbad is a god tier of the verse minus all the higher gods and dimensional hierarchy stuff.

 

[-BANLK-]

1) Why wouldn't it be? At the time of his statement Sinbad had 2 djinn's which is only something recreated by Hakuryuu and Kouen, he was a literal god tier of the verse at the time so it wouldn't exactly be inconsistent.

Bruh even Barbarossa had 2 djinns and he is nothing special. Having multiple metal vessels only gives you the advantage of variety, it does not increase the strength of your attacks. Hakuryuu had 2 djinns yet he barely won against Alibaba who had a single djinn. Also stop this headcanon, all metal vessel users are pretty much on equal level, in a fight between two djinn users the environment, compatibility, strategy, hax and luck decides the victor. The advantages Sinbad has over other metal vessel users would be, having the ability to change his djinn equip in response to the powers of his opponent and having a large amount of magoi (the only advantage of this is that it lets him stay in his djinn form for longer period of time and he can likely use his extreame magic more frequently but it does not increase his strength) and having the power to use dark rukh (This lets him powerup his attacks). Sure he is strong but you are straight up wanking him.

2) All of those tier 7 feats are casually done by fodder who would be flicked away by a serious sinbad, we have plenty of verses where a single statement is used to justify multiple ratings.

Dude I love Sinbad but this is just wrong. There is no doubt that Sinbad would defeat most metal vessel users but it would not be as easy as you have described. Those guys you are calling fodders are metal vessel users and like I have said previously all metal vessel users are comparable to each other in power.

"The main reason why I am against giving straight up 6-B rating is because, in a verse filled with tier 7 feats this single High 6-C feat is not enough to justify the supposed 6-B statement." I just copy pasted this stuff.....

3) Fair point, i don't mind BANLK's suggestion but if his reasoning is "it's not consistent" then i don't agree with that, Sinbad is a god tier of the verse minus all the higher gods and dimensional hierarchy stuff.

I am guessing you don't know who Arba is.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I suppose that the revisions should be started soon.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Anyway, I suppose that the revisions should be started soon.

So I am modifying everyone to be 'Large Island Level, likely Country Level'?

I can do that now if you want.

 

[Antvasima]

First we have to agree which Magi characters that should scale. In addition, you need to make sure to update both the tiers, the attack potencies, the striking strengths, the durabilities, and if necessary, the tier categories at the bottom of the pages.