MASSIVE DRAGON BALL UPGRADE

[Frey6678]

Goku in his profile here is only hypersonic+ when he should be at least MHS because he was training to be quicker than lightning and lightning is 270,000mph and being quicker than lightning which is something that is considered normal for popo as it was within his expectations
Goku obviously achieves that speed and beyond because even kami himself is shocked at goku speed and can’t even see him so Goku should be MHS from that statement alone but it doesn’t end there as
Goku was able to dodge tien tri beam which should scale above full power kamehameha at point blank and not only did he dodge it but he traveled a long distance during the beams duration which i did a calculation and it’s this fast so Goku shouldn’t be hypersonic+

 

[Nullflowerblush]

There is a rule that prohibits the creation of a CRT for major verses like Dragon Ball if three are ongoing already.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I could’ve sworn Classic Dragon Ball simply scaled to the speed of Roshi’s MAX Power Kamehameha in terms of combat speed. When was that deemed invalid?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Tien's Tri Beam should upscale from Max Power Kamehamaha in terms of Attack speed as well as AP and Goku dodged that at point blank range.

 

[thetechmaster36]

I could’ve sworn Classic Dragon Ball simply scaled to the speed of Roshi’s MAX Power Kamehameha in terms of combat speed. When was that deemed invalid?

After the flight speed revisions that Damage did at one point last year

 

[Frey6678]

Yeah, Tien's Tri Beam should upscale from Max Power Kamehamaha in terms of Attack speed as well as AP and Goku dodged that at point blank range.

You mean this?
Not only did goku dodge it at point blank range but he traveled an insane amount of distance within the time of the beam being launched all the way to when it hit the ground
So great speed feat

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

After the flight speed revisions that Damage did at one point last year

What speed tiers did he remove and why?

You mean this?
Not only did goku dodge it at point blank range but he traveled an insane amount of distance within the time of the beam being launched all the way to when it hit the ground
So great speed feat

is there a Calc for this?

 

[Frey6678]

is there a Calc for this?

Nah

 

[thetechmaster36]

What speed tiers did he remove and why?

You can literally check right there; Sub-Rel+ and Relativistic were removed and Hypersonic+ combat speed replaced it instead.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

You can literally check right there; Sub-Rel+ and Relativistic were removed and Hypersonic+ combat speed replaced it instead.

Did Damage remove it for no reason or did Damage make a thread to downgrade the speed? Because I’m 99% he could only change the travel speed and not combat and reaction speed during the thread

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Note: I want to know because I don’t want random downgrades that weren’t needed to be downgraded

 

[Frey6678]

is there a Calc for this?

now there is

 

[Huesito88]

For starters this is probably calc stacking? Even if it isn't I can't believe I'm saying this =P it could be a outliner that kid Goku (who's relative to Tien) dodged Tien's Tri Beam as it's a move that vastly exceeds it's own users maximum strength. To the point that imperfect Cell couldn't even dodge it (and nowhere is it stated that imperfect Cell is somehow only gotten massively stronger and stayed the same in speed or slower). If the calc is fine then this would put Kid Goku on nearly on par with even Piccolo's Moon speed feat even giving Piccolo best circumstances for that feat. Piccolo preformed said feat with one arm instead of him using two arms (Demon explosive wave would probably still be a little more) and with weight clothing.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do agree that it might be considered Calc Stacking, but I disagree with it being an outlier to Goku's reaction speed. All we know is that is surpasses Roshi's Max Power Kamehameha Wave in terms of power. We have 0 evidence of it being THAT much higher however.

Also, Tien using it to match Semi-Perfect Cell is what I call an outlier. While it his his strongest attack, it's never been that much stronger than his melee attacks. It's implied to be nothing against King Piccolo, in Saiyan saga the Neo Tribeam did 0 damage to Nappa when Piccolo and Gohan were able to harm Nappa and it was implied Krillin's Destructo Disk could have harmed him. And most importantly, why didn't he use it sooner against the likes of Android 17 and 18? Also, given the Androids can also detect hidden power levels, Android 20 should have been able to detect power in him if he had a secret weapon far above what Vegeta and Piccolo were capable of at the time. And even as far as Dragon Ball Super is concerned, even Tien's clones who are multitudes weaker than the real Tien were durable enough to tank the Tri Beam and remain conscious. There is far more consistency in it being portrayed as within the same ball park as his physical stats and/or other Earthling Z Fighters than it being some table turning trump card.

 

[Frey6678]

It might be calc stacking but I think it’s a great speed feat
Moving just 1m before an attack reaches the position you were is far less impressive than moving 100m away from your original position before the attack reaches
So I don’t think it can be something as simple as at least scaling to the beam speed because distance between tri beam and arena matters and so does the distance goku traveled during the duration of the beam

 

[Huesito88]

"Also, Tien using it to match Semi-Perfect Cell is what I call an outlier. While it his his strongest attack, it's never been that much stronger than his melee attacks."

Tien never matched Imperfect Cell, I never even said that. Tien really only managed to push back imperfect Cell that's all, but my main point with the imperfect Cell battle is that imperfect couldn't dodge it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

"Also, Tien using it to match Semi-Perfect Cell is what I call an outlier. While it his his strongest attack, it's never been that much stronger than his melee attacks."

Tien never matched Imperfect Cell, I never even said that. Tien really only managed to push back imperfect Cell that's all, but my main point with the imperfect Cell battle is that imperfect couldn't dodge it.

People let them selves take hits all the time in Dragon Ball, so I still either wouldn't call that an anti-feat or consider it PIS.

 

[Huesito88]

People let them selves take hits all the time in Dragon Ball, so I still either wouldn't call that an anti-feat or consider it PIS.

Ok yes I'll admit that does happen a lot, but for Semi he was trying to become Perfect and Tien did managed to stop him dispite Semi efforts on trying to still get to them or just trying to Kill Tien before he could fire another one

"Bastard Tien, wasn't much but he did get in the way"

 

[Quasar002]

Up

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

If this feat is accepted would it scale to combat or travel speed?

 

[Frey6678]

Should we all agree that at least the quicker than lightning statement should be taken seriously and they should be MHS at least?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Why should "Calm as the skies, faster than lightning" be taken seriously exactly?
The weather metaphor.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Should we all agree that at least the quicker than lightning statement should be taken seriously and they should be MHS at least?

Goku should actually be sub relativistic and relativistic I asked Damage about it I got a response but then I told Damage that they were sub relativistic and relativistic before damage changed it to Hypersonic+ so they could’ve been removed for no reason

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Why should "Calm as the skies, faster than lightning" be taken seriously exactly?
The weather metaphor.

Well Popo says that Goku needs to be faster than lighting directly

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

now there is

This is 100% Calc Stacking so it can’t be used, but I agree with Goku’s combat speed upscaling from Roshi’s Kamehameha

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Goku should actually be sub relativistic and relativistic I asked Damage about it I got a response but then I told Damage that they were sub relativistic and relativistic before damage changed it to Hypersonic+ so they could’ve been removed for no reason

update: damage said he’d fix it when he does a revision in the future

This is 100% Calc Stacking so it can’t be used, but I agree with Goku’s combat speed upscaling from Roshi’s Kamehameha

would it still be Calc stacking if it’s stated that the tri beam is as strong as the kamehameha or no

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

would it still be Calc stacking if it’s stated that the tri beam is as strong as the kamehameha or no

It still would be, yeah.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It still would be, yeah.

I see

 

[Frey6678]

I don’t understand calc stacking tbh
If a certain attack like a bullet from a Glock is dodged at 1cm distance point blank then it can be calced with distance between bullet and character as well as the distance character moved to dodge it
But if it’s a beam like tri beam which would at least be as fast as super kamehameha, a beam with speeds that we know, is dodged a certain way it can’t be accepted due to calc stacking rule…meh whatever I tried at least I guess..
In that case due to calc stacking rule how would goku dodging the beam be quantified in first place

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Well Damage said he’d add back the speed ratings so they’ll be higher than MHS so we can close the thread or wait until Damage adds it back and close the thread

 

[Damage3245]

Goku was able to dodge tien tri beam which should scale above full power kamehameha at point blank and not only did he dodge it but he traveled a long distance during the beams duration which i did a calculation and it’s this fast so Goku shouldn’t be hypersonic+

Yeah, this calc can't be used due to calc stacking.

EDIT: As for what Goku's combat speed should scale to, I'll address that soon when I can.

 

[Frey6678]

Yeah, this calc can't be used due to calc stacking.

EDIT: As for what Goku's combat speed should scale to, I'll address that soon when I can.

Ok
I have a question then
If a character attack is calced at light speed
Then another character dodges it
The dodger is 10 meters away from where the attack was launched
Assuming its not just aim dodge how would that be quantified in this wiki since calc stacking isn’t allowed?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

in which way i agree

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I have a question then
If a character attack is calced at light speed
Then another character dodges it
The dodger is 10 meters away from where the attack was launched
Assuming its not just aim dodge how would that be quantified in this wiki since calc stacking isn’t allowed?

As FTL.

 

[Frey6678]

As FTL.

Hmm doesn’t seem right normally since dodging a LS attack from 10 meters away like say just by moving your body 0.5 meters away in order to dodge wouldn’t really be FTL speed but eh whatever

 

[Nullflowerblush]

That seems like Calc Stacking.

 

[Damage3245]

As FTL.

Dodging a lightspeed attack =/= FTL.

 

[Frey6678]

Light speed = 299792458m/s
Time it takes to travel 10 meters =
3.33564E-8 seconds
0.5/3.33564E-8 = 14989627.178m/s or sub rel+
but I guess if an attack in a series is stated to cross the earth 7.5x in one second and gets calced at light speed and a character dodges said attack it magically can’t be calced because it’s already a calc and calc stacking not allowed while an attack that is stated to be light speed would somehow quantifiable despite no difference between the two
One just needed a minor calc since it was stated to cross earth 7.5x in one second
The other just had a speed stated for it
I don’t see why just because one of them needed a minor calc now it becomes illegal to calc a character’s reaction time if they dodge it

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Dodging a lightspeed attack =/= FTL.

Admittedly, I read the message wrong.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Since the changes haven’t been fixed can I just fix it myself? (Want to get staff approval before I do so) since it wasnt suppose to be changed