Massive Ben 10 Revisions Part 1 (2020 Corona edition)

[Gohanblanco217]

We'd need a lot more values, our only options are to use escape velocity of the planet, the crater, or somehow find Diamondheads terminal velocity on the planet he lands on. Two out of the three are lower in tier by a large margin making it more consistent.

Well then you should probably settle this with Firestorm since I have 0 knowledge on this kind of stuff anyway.

To kill it

That's like saying I'm gonna use a nuclear bomb because I want to get rid of a single 10-B human.........Malgax has no reason to launch a high 5-A attack out of his ass just to defeat a massively weaker being that doesn't make sense.

 

[KieranH10]

So you're saying in the ball example I gave that the batter's hit would only be rated as 24.5 J?

If the ball had also only ever endured the likes of 20 - 30 joule attacks in the past for its series, then proceeded to fall and land at those speeds and act as if it hurt a bit while barely acting like it noticed the initial hit. Yeah.

If the ball was also hit by a High 5-A and casually tanked the attack then the discussion would be pointless imo because it's an outlier either way in that case.

That's like saying I'm gonna use a nuclear bomb because I want to get rid of a single 10-B human.........Malgax has no reason to launch a high 5-A attack out of his ass just to defeat a massively weaker being that doesn't make sense.

Would the nuclear bomb kill the human? Yes. Guilt and collateral damage aside, it would work.

If you have pretty easy High 5-A attacks, and you want to kill something. You're gonna use your pretty easy High 5-A power.
These levels of powers don't seem like too much effort to Malgax, so it doesn't really matter anyway.

 

[Hellbeast]

Would the nuclear bomb kill the human? Yes. Guilt and collateral damage aside, it would work.

why didn't I think of that?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Would the nuclear bomb kill the human? Yes. Guilt and collateral damage aside, it would work.

I don't think you are still getting the point it doesn't matter if it's gonna kill the human what I'm trying to say is a nuclear explosion isn't needed just to kill a 10-B being...... This is called comon sense and logic....

If you have pretty easy High 5-A attacks, and you want to kill something. You're gonna use your pretty easy High 5-A power.

Eh no you are not gonna waste a High 5-A power against a tier 8 character that still doesn't make sense you still have yet to prove that Malgax was using a high 5-A attack anyway.

These levels of powers don't seem like too much effort to Malgax

Okay.... Doesn't change anything I said

 

[KieranH10]

Why would Malgax use a tier 8 attack, or even a tier 7 attack on somebody he's tryna kill?

If I am a tier 7 and finally get a chance to murder the ant that has a thing I've wanted most of my life and pissed me off. I'm gonna use my tier 7 attacks on said ant, regardless of what tier he is, because I want him to be dead.

Malgax is in no position or mindset to need to hold back here at all.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Why would Malgax use a tier 8 attack, or even a tier 7 attack on somebody he's tryna kill?

Because tha makes sense? If your opponent is a 8-C character then you just have to launch a 8-C+ or High 8-C attack and kill him.

If I am a tier 7 and finally get a chance to murder the ant that has a thing I've wanted most of my life and pissed me off. I'm gonna use my tier 7 attacks on said ant, regardless of what tier he is, because I want him to be dead

As stated above

Malgax is in no position or mindset to need to hold back here at all.

When he is against a massively weaker being they yes he does

 

[KieranH10]

Because tha makes sense? If you are a 8-C character then you just have to launch a 8-C+ or High 8-C attack and kill him.

He wouldn't take that risk tho. If he can kill them, he'd kill them. He doesn't struggle with High 5-A power levels, why would he use them conservatively?

As stated above

Why would I risk someone surviving an attack at all, again he can have conservative High 5-A power levels too...

When he is against a massively weaker being they yes he does

Said weaker being is essentially his nemesis. That also doesn't make sense as a point either "this character who is my nemesis is much weaker than I am, lemme weaken my own attacks quadrillion of times to make it fair for them"

 

[Gohanblanco217]

If he can kill them, he'd kill them

Yes but not with a High 5-A attack lmao

He doesn't struggle with High 5-A power levels, why would he use them conservatively?

And why not?

again he can have conservative High 5-A power levels too...

Considering Diamondhead survived it then Malgax attack wasn't anywhere near to high 5-A and it's not like there is any evidence that Malgax used a high 5-A attack anyway so doesn't matter.

Said weaker being is essentially his nemesis. That also doesn't make sense as a point either "this character who is my nemesis is much weaker than I am, lemme weaken my own attacks quadrillion of times to make it fair for them"

He is obviously gonna use a considerable amount of power to kill him but not to the point where it would reach high 5-A lmao

 

[Shadyboi0]

And why not?

how he shat on waybig.

 

[Shadyboi0]

He is obviously gonna use a considerable amount of power to kill him but not to the point where it would reach high 5-A lmao

this makes no sense

 

[Gohanblanco217]

this makes no sense

It does tho

 

[DaReaperMan]

It does tho

It doesn't tho

 

[KieranH10]

Right now you are arguing that Vilgax, one of the strongest, most feared conquerors in the universe, who has attempted to kill Ben many times in the past and lost that chance each time, is going to hold back his power quadrillion of times in an attempt to kill Ben.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Right now you are arguing that Vilgax, one of the strongest, most feared conquerors in the universe, who has attempted to kill Ben many times in the past and lost that chance each time, is going to hold back his power quadrillion of times in an attempt to kill Ben.

Let me tell you something yes you are right

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let me tell you something yes you are right

 

[Firestorm808]

Right now you are arguing that Vilgax, one of the strongest, most feared conquerors in the universe, who has attempted to kill Ben many times in the past and lost that chance each time, is going to hold back his power quadrillion of times in an attempt to kill Ben.

After watching Malgax fight Diamondhead, Atomix, Whampire, and the skurd combo, you can say that he didn't go for the immediate kill shot.

I'll be going over Diamondhead's previous AF to OV appearances again later today.

 

[AKM sama]

Last I was on this thread, the revisions were about to be made and everything was already discussed. I come back and there are 2 more pages...

Is there some point of contention?

 

[Shadyboi0]

It does tho

8-C is not a considerable amount of power to a High 5-A. It makes no sense.

 

[KieranH10]

Is there some point of contention?

Gohan is arguing this:

Vilgax, one of the strongest, most feared conquerors in the universe, who has attempted to kill Ben many times in the past and lost that chance each time, is going to hold back his power quadrillion of times in an attempt to kill Ben.

Firestorm has just mentioned that he also doesnt believe that malgax went for the kill shot in the scene.

This is all in regards to Diamondhead being punched to the moon by malgax.

 

[KieranH10]

Man these memes are really helping this thread go along.

 

[DragonLord]

So if I’m understanding correctly Malgax punched Diamondhead and Diamondhead survived?, I’d assume that be quickly dismissed as a outlier due to seemingly the lack of feats in the tiers inbetween

 

[AKM sama]

I'm sorry but since I am dropping in the middle and don't have time to search for it, can I get the video of the feat real quick?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

So if I’m understanding correctly Malgax punched Diamondhead and Diamondhead survived?, I’d assume that be quickly dismissed as a outlier due to seemingly the lack of feats in the tiers inbetween

Yes with 0 proof that Malgax was using a high 5-A attack and ignoring the fact that he could've just been holding back but sure

 

[Firestorm808]

Gohan is arguing this:


Firestorm has just mentioned that he also doesnt believe that malgax went for the kill shot in the scene.

This is all in regards to Diamondhead being punched to the moon by malgax.

We're obviously not scaling Diamond to 5-A Malgax. Ben switches to Atomix for a reason.

 

[Firestorm808]

I'm sorry but since I am dropping in the middle and don't have time to search for it, can I get the video of the feat real quick?

Here.

 

[KieranH10]

We're obviously not scaling Diamond to 5-A Malgax. Ben switches to Atomix for a reason.

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing it's likely an outlier anyways.

 

[AKM sama]

So if I’m understanding correctly Malgax punched Diamondhead and Diamondhead survived?, I’d assume that be quickly dismissed as a outlier due to seemingly the lack of feats in the tiers inbetween

I believe that is a valid take. Or the other scenario that maybe it wasn't a punch at full power. This is basic villain trope in fiction, even if you want to argue that Ben is his enemy that he always wants to kill.

 

[KieranH10]

Even if we dont deem it an outlier for it being Malgax.
The crater Diamondhead makes does not correspond well to the amount of energy he'd tank upon impact, he's slow down up until impact as he loses energy in the atmosphere.

I'd assume the punch itself would be far higher than the tier 8 feats the series has anyway, so there's antifeats to dissuade the likes of as low as 8-B to 8-A, which would make this feat an outlier anyways.

 

[Firestorm808]

I believe that is a valid take. Or the other scenario that maybe it wasn't a punch at full power. This is basic villain trope in fiction, even if you want to argue that Ben is his enemy that he always wants to kill.

The punch itself is calculated to be at least 7-C.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I'd assume the punch itself would be far higher than the tier 8 feats the series has anyway, so there's antifeats to dissuade the likes of as low as 8-B to 8-A, which would make this feat an outlier anyways.

We could just scale OV Diamondhead to 7-C while UA/AF Aliens would be around 8-B to 8-A since UA/AF and OV are 2 different generations.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems easiest to consider it an outlier that he survived then.

 

[Greenshifter]

What shows that Vilgax was holding back?

Malware is very cocky.

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that the issue was that one of Ben's aliens survived a punch that almost launched him into orbit, but the required energy was not acceptable to calculate according to our rules though. Perhaps I misunderstood.

 

[Shadyboi0]

UA/AF and OV are 2 different generations.

what?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

what?

What?

 

[Shadyboi0]

What?

how are they 2 different generations

 

[Greenshifter]

if we're gonna assume malware was holding back, I dunno why we're arguing that it wasn't tier 8 or something anyway, we see the crater, we know Diamondhead would slow upon impact. So there's nothing wrong here.

Because then we can calc his KE based on escape velocity.

In this case, the impact that Diamondhead creates does not correspond well with how much energy would be required for him to get hit between planets. So assuming a highest value would inflate the calc imo

But you said yourself he would get slowed down to terminal velocity no?

Why would Malgax use a tier 8 attack, or even a tier 7 attack on somebody he's tryna kill?

Torture him.

Riddle me this Gohan: how many times has Malgax actually held back?

Probably every single moment he was on-screen, except maybe in his LS struggle against Whampire.

Two out of the three are lower in tier by a large margin making it more consistent.

That’s not how consistency works. Especially when you can see them as different feats and the impact on the moon didn’t hurt him.

power quadrillion of times in an attempt to kill Ben.

He hurt DH multiple times before that punch, it’s basically a trope in the episode of Malgax punching around Ben’s aliens, for instance he punched Atomix to his ship instead of doing the more efficient thing and shooting him and keeping him close for instance.

so there's antifeats to dissuade the likes of as low as 8-B to 8-A, which would make this feat an outlier anyways.

The discussion on the tiering of the feat would need to happen, in order to then dismiss it as an outlier. That way we know exactly the amount of supposed outliers there are.

In short, I’m for it being a 7-C outlier, due to Malgax holding back to torture Ben and the crater not contradicting this.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Where is it stated he was trying to torture him rather than just kill him?

 

[Firestorm808]

@Greenshifter

So you're agreeing that the launch feat can be used (at least 7-C depending on variables), but that it would be an outlier to Diamondhead's previous feats.

What AF-OV feats do we have for DH's limits?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Where is it stated he was trying to torture him rather than just kill him?

Proof that Malgax was trying to kill him? Proof that Malgax was going all out? Proof that Malgax was launching a High 5-A attack out of his ass just to kill a tier 8 alien?