Massive Ben 10 Revisions Part 1 (2020 Corona edition)

[Greenshifter]

but that it would be an outlier to Diamondhead's previous feats.

I mean I don’t have time to tackle Zamasu’s supposed anti-feats so I don’t have much choice.

Where is it stated he was trying to torture him rather than just kill him?

The fact that the episode took more than 10 seconds and that again Malware is very cocky and even stated that none of Ben’s aliens could defeat him anyway. It’s clear if you watch the episode that Malgax was toying with Ben, even when he was Atomix. He literally let him fire his best attack at him to then tank it like it was almost nothing.

What AF-OV feats do we have for DH's limits?

Everyone scales to everyone, I’m not moving from that hill. Even if he has none he’ll get dragged up or down along with everyone else.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Greenshifter
IIRC from the earlier posts, they were scenes where the enemy used Diamondhead's weakness to vibration and sonic attacks to bypass his durability.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Antvasima
@KieranH10

I believe we have everything cleared up now. I'm fine with the punch being a Tier 7 outlier if that's what the current data shows.

What confused me was being told that using the launch energy was invalid in general and that only the landing energy could be used when those are two unrelated energy feats all together due to how projectile motion works.

It didn't violate our site's kinetic energy rules at all. It was just a matter of the scaling chains.

 

[Firestorm808]

@Antvasima

Can we make a note on the KE page regarding the launching and falling of projectile motion to clear up future confusion on the application of the site rules?

 

[DemonicDude]

Yes but not with a High 5-A attack lmao



And why not?



Considering Diamondhead survived it then Malgax attack wasn't anywhere near to high 5-A and it's not like there is any evidence that Malgax used a high 5-A attack anyway so doesn't matter.



He is obviously gonna use a considerable amount of power to kill him but not to the point where it would reach high 5-A lmao

Wait so Diamondhead just survived a Way Big level-ish attack from Malgax ? This is getting confusing even if Tier 7 version gets accepted wouldn't that be an outlier due to current scaling.

 

[Firestorm808]

Wait so Diamondhead just survived a Way Big level-ish attack from Malgax ? This is getting confusing even if Tier 7 version gets accepted wouldn't that be an outlier due to current scaling.

It's not a 5-A punch.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

It's not a 5-A punch.

You’re right. That’s a high 5-A punch.

 

[Antvasima]

I believe we have everything cleared up now. I'm fine with the punch being a Tier 7 outlier if that's what the current data shows.

What confused me was being told that using the launch energy was invalid in general and that only the landing energy could be used when those are two unrelated energy feats all together due to how projectile motion works.

It didn't violate our site's kinetic energy rules at all. It was just a matter of the scaling chains.

Can we make a note on the KE page regarding the launching and falling of projectile motion to clear up future confusion on the application of the site rules?

@DontTalkDT

What do you think about this?

 

[AKM sama]

I believe we have everything cleared up now. I'm fine with the punch being a Tier 7 outlier if that's what the current data shows.

After reading the posts, I am in agreement with this.

 

[Antvasima]

So what is left to do here in that case?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Please update the verse page with the relevant calculations and ditch the old ones, also a statistic explanation would be appreciated but it's optional thanks.

 

[Firestorm808]

So what is left to do here in that case?

Regarding the OP, we're basically done. Update the verse page calculations section. I'm also waiting on Donttalk for his thoughts for the KE page.

 

[Antvasima]

Please update the verse page with the relevant calculations and ditch the old ones, also a statistic explanation would be appreciated but it's optional thanks.

Okay. Is somebody else willing to handle this please?

Regarding the OP, we're basically done. Update the verse page calculations section. I'm also waiting on Donttalk for his thoughts for the KE page.

You can send a PM to DontTalk to ask him to help you out here if you wish.

 

[Ancalagon8505]

That's because Humungousaur completely destroyed 4 houses while Aggregor destroyed portions of 3. Can't use inverse square law because that's literally banned.

He still destroyed like 10 visible on screen, he should be around borderline 8-b regardless of not using ISL.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

He still destroyed like 10 visible on screen, he should be around borderline 8-b regardless of not using ISL.

He’s already 8-B. This is also a necro.

 

[Antvasima]

Necro shouldn't be a problem in this case if there are important issues left to do here.

Speaking of which, can somebody summarise what we currently need to do here please? I can ask DontTalk for help afterwards if it is necessary.

 

[Antvasima]

Please update the verse page with the relevant calculations and ditch the old ones, also a statistic explanation would be appreciated but it's optional thanks.

Regarding the OP, we're basically done. Update the verse page calculations section. I'm also waiting on Donttalk for his thoughts for the KE page.

@Firestorm808 can you write an explanation about what you need DontTalk to help you with here please?

 

[Ancalagon8505]

All the aliens being one tier never made sense to me.

It doesn't make sense. They're all different just in the same ballpark (though honestly I'm pushing for 8-A/low 7-c Vilgax and humungousaur/ultimate humungousaur

 

[Ancalagon8505]

How do you explain the planet busters not blowing up a planet every time they fight? Or heck not everyone (who’s tier 5) even has the range to blow up the planet in the verse so they’ll never have the same AoE as their AP. Them putting effort into stuff doesn’t matter if it doesn’t relate to regular weapons or structures.

Give me a single instance of a mid-tier oneshotting a low-tier or a high-tier oneshotting a mid-tier. I’ll wait. Unless you’re talking about ultimates, which indeed the stronger ones should be tier 5 (Ult. Echo Echo probably AP only).

Ultimate Aggregor one-shots humungousaur. Highbreed (mid-ish high-ish tier) one shot K.O.s swampfire (mid tier)

 

[Ancalagon8505]

Didn't Humungosaur perform a 8-A feat or something?

Got recalced or something, tho he should be 125 times his 4.4/7.09 ton feat at full size going by narrative. Consistent with 10% 4.2 kiloton heatblast being basically equal to Kevin 11 (all the other aliens are insignificant) being about as strong as cybogax who is approximately 10x weaker than his Warlord version who basically oneshot (but didn't kill) 8-A/low 7 c full size humungousaur

 

[Firestorm808]

@Firestorm808 can you write an explanation about what you need DontTalk to help you with here please?

Sorry for the late reply. I'll follow-up with him on the topic.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ultimate Aggregor one-shots humungousaur

Aggregor is ultimate tier, not high tier.

Highbreed (mid-ish high-ish tier) one shot K.O.s swampfire (mid tier)

Swampfire can change his density (and thus durability) and defeated that Highbreed right after via plant manipulation, so he wasn't K.O.'d, he just had his face punched out.

 

[Ancalagon8505]

Aggregor is ultimate tier, not high tier.

Swampfire can change his density (and thus durability) and defeated that Highbreed right after via plant manipulation, so he wasn't K.O.'d, he just had his face punched out.

Aggregor got stomped by Ultimate Kevin, so he only downscales from that and is nowhere near actually being ultimate tier. Also ultimates in general should scale higher than 8-b for reasons I'll explain if you want.
Swampfire got knocked into a building that got shattered afterwards, meaning his density was high at the time he got punched. Plant manip doesn't really scale to swampfire himself anyway, (though yes it should mean he gets upgraded) just sayin' Highbreed>> swampfire physically unless he uses plant manip. He could be a high tier then, but it's not true that Highbreed doesn't one shot him at high density if it wasn't for regen

 

[Greenshifter]

Aggregor got stomped by Ultimate Kevin, so he only downscales from that and is nowhere near actually being ultimate tier

I mean I define ultimate tier by everyone who is relative to ultimates and those ultimates being stronger than High tiers, Zamasu is somewhat aware of this. So when I asked him for a “High-tier” I made it pretty clear that I didn’t mean any ultimates like Aggregor.

Also ultimates in general should scale higher than 8-b for reasons I'll explain if you want.

Agree, I scale everyone higher.

Aggregor got stomped by Ultimate Kevin

Also he kinda got 2/3-shot, not oneshot.

Swampfire got knocked into a building that got shattered afterwards, meaning his density was high at the time he got punched.

Could you give me the clip or episode?

just sayin' Highbreed>> swampfire physically

I agree with this, but mid-tiers like Swampfire almost never get oneshot by high-tiers like the Highbreed. They are somewhat relative, I personally have an at least 2 or even 3 times power gap between them.

 

[Ancalagon8505]

I mean I define ultimate tier by everyone who is relative to ultimates and those ultimates being stronger than High tiers, Zamasu is somewhat aware of this. So when I asked him for a “High-tier” I made it pretty clear that I didn’t mean any ultimates like Aggregor.

Agree, I scale everyone higher.

Also he kinda got 2/3-shot, not oneshot.

Could you give me the clip or episode?

I agree with this, but mid-tiers like Swampfire almost never get oneshot by high-tiers like the Highbreed. They are somewhat relative, I personally have an at least 2 or even 3 times power gap between them.

A 2-3 ish power gap between high-tiers and mid tiers makes sense.
Actually I was wrong on the Highbreed hitting him into a building he actually just caused a 10 foot+ ish crater in the street. The pisode is called "Grounded" but Idk how to give a link to a yt vid on my phone

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry for the late reply. I'll follow-up with him on the topic.

Okay. No problem.

What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually I was wrong on the Highbreed hitting him into a building he actually just caused a 10 foot+ ish crater in the street. The pisode is called "Grounded" but Idk how to give a link to a yt vid on my phone

I think I know what you’re talking about, problem with Swampfire getting knocked out is that his physiology doesn’t really allow that, hence it’s really plot convenience.