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MASHLE: Magic and Muscles Discussion Thread

EldemadeDityjon said:
8-KJga9Py5FhEd4-m.jpg

Someone should check the raws for this
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I have raw and translation of this, and it says superspeed.

I asked for a translation of this months ago.
 
I mean it makes sense on why IZ deemed Space Magic lesser than darkness and time. I mean, time magic is time magic, and apparently Adam Job's section in the fanbook says that dark magic can destroy the world (do note that I only get this information from that video I posted a while back, where the person had some translations on that section). So if he has two magic types that are considered the best, then he wouldn't see any use in using the lesser magic.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
I mean it makes sense on why IZ deemed Space Magic lesser than darkness and time. I mean, time magic is time magic, and apparently Adam Job's section in the fanbook says that dark magic can destroy the world (do note that I only get this information from that video I posted a while back, where the person had some translations on that section). So if he has two magic types that are considered the best, then he wouldn't see any use in using the lesser magic.
Click to expand...
Space magic simply crushed dark magic. From what was shown in the work, the EE of spaces surpasses the dark.

Furthermore, the fanbook explained what black partisan was all about and why it was never used again?
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Yeah, Divine Visonaries of course scale to and above Margarette's magic feats, meaning they get the aura. Margarette was noted to be an abnormality among the contestants in the exam arc, so only Lance should have the aura stuff as well. I'd say that the characters in the TMA arc and after should also get the aura stuff since they're supposed to be the top picks from their academies.
Click to expand...
We should just put that in separately in their profiles? Beside I'm planning on making Advanced abilities only for DV
AnAverageUsername said:
I think so yeah, but we're not sure on what percentage Doom uses before hitting 50% against Dot, Lance, Rayne, and Finn.
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He considers Dot and Finn as boring and only started using 30% against Finn and Rayne combo
AnAverageUsername said:
Ehhhh, I think Rayne was included there because he's the 5th/4th strongest Visonary by word of god, and he was also present during the second raid directly against Innocent Zero. I don't think that means he scales above most of the children. But cutting Doom's chest with his spear after his strongest attack did nothing earlier is a good feat, but it should likely be contained to accelerated development.

And while we could have post series keys for our main cast, due to the extra one shot that was released in January, I don't think there's enough information for new keys aside from saying "they got stronger"
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Which one shot chapter are you talking about?
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Space magic simply crushed dark magic. From what was shown in the work, the EE of spaces surpasses the dark.
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More so that Wahlberg is more powerful than Adam, so his space magic overpowered Adam's dark magic. Let's say if Innocent Zero were to use dark magic against Waglberg, IZ would win in that clash.
Phsccarvalho said:
Furthermore, the fanbook explained what black partisan was all about and why it was never used again?
Click to expand...
Oh don't worry the ankme fixed that by just not mentioning it yarharhar
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
We should just put that in separately in their profiles?
Click to expand...
As in separating physical skills from magic skills?
EldemadeDityjon said:
Beside I'm planning on making Advanced abilities only for DV
Click to expand...
What would be included there, if you dont mind telling us
EldemadeDityjon said:
He considers Dot and Finn as boring and only started using 30% against Finn and Rayne combo
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Dont you mean Dot and Lance? Also where did we swe him use 30% in the text? He only bumped himself up to 50% after both Rayne and Finn showed off their capabilities as a form of respect.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Which one shot chapter are you talking about?
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The post series one. Should be on manga plus.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
?
Click to expand...
In addition to having forgotten about the magic of IZ's space (the fanbook doesn't count because it was made after the manga ended, it didn't give any explanation within the work)

The author forgot this below. And it seems that the anime didn't even mention black magic, in other words, it seems like something discarded.
images.jpg
 
AnAverageUsername said:
As in separating physical skills from magic skills?
Click to expand...
Never mind we can give Lance a seperate key for EOS
AnAverageUsername said:
What would be included there, if you dont mind telling us
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Phsccarvalho/Sandbox7

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
AnAverageUsername said:
Dont you mean Dot and Lance? Also where did we swe him use 30% in the text? He only bumped himself up to 50% after both Rayne and Finn showed off their capabilities as a form of respect.
Click to expand...
Yeah my bad he directly went to 50%. Is he talking about Lance & dot as average Mage
17-1NdK8Dk27F9XI.jpg

AnAverageUsername said:
The post series one. Should be on manga plus.
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I just read it
AnAverageUsername said:
The anime got rid of the mentioning of black magic. Yeah, Margarette instead just acted in surprise. If you're wondering about more changes, there was a whole lot of stuff added.
Click to expand...
Phsccarvalho said:
In addition to having forgotten about the magic of IZ's space (the fanbook doesn't count because it was made after the manga ended, it didn't give any explanation within the work)

The author forgot this below. And it seems that the anime didn't even mention black magic, in other words, it seems like something discarded.
images.jpg
Click to expand...
Most likely Author forgot about this. Btw this is likely forbidden magic like IZ time magic spell which brought back Adam?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Never mind we can give Lance a seperate key for EOS
Click to expand...
Yeah, the main cast could get EoS keys. Though I do hope we get future post-series chapters in the future, these characters are too lovable.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Click to expand...
Ah, some neat stuff.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Yeah my bad he directly went to 50%. Is he talking about Lance & dot as average Mage
17-1NdK8Dk27F9XI.jpg
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that Dot and Lance are "average mages." Both of them don't instantly die against base Epidem, and they also achieved the pinnacle of magic, Thirds.

Also Doom is so raw here. It makes me want to see his profile even sooner. Putting him in VS matches would be so cool, seeing his wins rack up. Though, I'm not sure on who he could fight.
EldemadeDityjon said:
I just read it
Click to expand...
Thoughts?
EldemadeDityjon said:
Most likely Author forgot about this. Btw this is likely forbidden magic like IZ time magic spell which brought back Adam?
Click to expand...
eh, from the way its reacted to it could be, but we really don't have any more info on it. The only other person we could kinda say has black magic would be Kaldo with his black flame sword, but that wasn't ever outright stated. I think the anime made a good call on removing that statement.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
I wouldn't say that Dot and Lance are "average mages." Both of them don't instantly die against base Epidem, and they also achieved the pinnacle of magic, Thirds.
Click to expand...
Not saying they are average Mage in that sense.
They may be average Mage according to Doom. I mean from his POV
AnAverageUsername said:
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Very small chapter.
AnAverageUsername said:
eh, from the way its reacted to it could be, but we really don't have any more info on it. The only other person we could kinda say has black magic would be Kaldo with his black flame sword, but that wasn't ever outright stated. I think the anime made a good call on removing that statement.
Click to expand...
I would have liked an explanation instead. Also his Trident does sparks in black whenever he summons it.

Btw I found this in Rayne profile. Can you tell any character displaying this
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Not saying they are average Mage in that sense.
They may be average Mage according to Doom. I mean from his POV
Click to expand...
Maybe. But Rayne would only be above the "average mage" in Doom's eyes with Finn's help. Without that help, he would've gone down instantly as shown at the start of the engagement.
EldemadeDityjon said:
I would have liked an explanation instead. Also his Trident does sparks in black whenever he summons it.
Click to expand...
Every summons has a spart around it. Hell, even stronger attacks have those sparks. Pretty beat visuals tbh.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Btw I found this in Rayne profile. Can you tell any character displaying this
Click to expand...
Dot when unleashing his Ira Kruez negated the tornado spell around him by powering up. Same when Rayne's used his Summons against Margarette, the magic emmited instantly negated the active spell around him.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Maybe. But Rayne would only be above the "average mage" in Doom's eyes with Finn's help. Without that help, he would've gone down instantly as shown at the start of the engagement.
Click to expand...
Dot with Max emotional Amp Thirds > Rayne Summon > Lance thirds and Normal Dot Thirds > Base Rayne > Secondths Lance > Base Lance > Base Dot

Personally I think this is how scale goes between them
AnAverageUsername said:
Every summons has a spart around it. Hell, even stronger attacks have those sparks. Pretty beat visuals tbh.
Click to expand...
Yeah?
Idk I will look for any Fanbook or explanation for Black partisan. It might work as unholy manipulation or darkness manipulation as a ability
AnAverageUsername said:
Dot when unleashing his Ira Kruez negated the tornado spell around him by powering up. Same when Rayne's used his Summons against Margarette, the magic emmited instantly negated the active spell around him.
Click to expand...
So are we giving this to everyone? Or we just can put that under Three lines activation and Ira kruez activation.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Black partisan seems to be something that has been ruled out.

In addition to never appearing again, according to @AnAverageUsername, it was also something removed from the anime.
Click to expand...
EldemadeDityjon said:
Well we don't consider anime to be canon though until Author specifies he intentionally removed it.
Click to expand...
I feel like this is one of those instances where it can just be judged with purely intuition. Also:

EldemadeDityjon said:
Dot with Max emotional Amp Thirds > Rayne Summon > Lance thirds and Normal Dot Thirds > Base Rayne > Secondths Lance > Base Lance > Base Dot

Personally I think this is how scale goes between them
Click to expand...
See, it's a bit tricky. Dot with his Thirds absolutely mogged summons Epidem, who in turn mogged Lance. But do we say that Lance's Thirds power was still out, or was it only his Summons after beating base Epidem? And I'm assuming you mean Max Emotion Amp as the bigger guns, right? Which in turn absolutely overwhelmed Epidem's own Thirds.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Yeah?
Idk I will look for any Fanbook or explanation for Black partisan. It might work as unholy manipulation or darkness manipulation as a ability
Click to expand...
Where will you get it from? The fanbook I mean.
EldemadeDityjon said:
So are we giving this to everyone? Or we just can put that under Three lines activation and Ira kruez activation.
Click to expand...
I feel like it's negating the spell of your opponent through overwhelming it with superior magic power. Take that how you will.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
I feel like this is one of those instances where it can just be judged with purely intuition. Also:
Click to expand...

Ok I think this is how it works looking at Margarette Face reaction Black Magic is something unholy thing opposite to magic which is holy thing that's why they were shocked. Rayne most likely didn't used it against Doom and Delister due to the fact they are kinda of unholy themselves and it would be useless? They did possess magic due to demon hearts so it's not impossible.
AnAverageUsername said:
See, it's a bit tricky. Dot with his Thirds absolutely mogged summons Epidem, who in turn mogged Lance. But do we say that Lance's Thirds power was still out, or was it only his Summons after beating base Epidem? And I'm assuming you mean Max Emotion Amp as the bigger guns, right? Which in turn absolutely overwhelmed Epidem's own Thirds.
Click to expand...
Yeah Dot was on a different level.
AnAverageUsername said:
Where will you get it from? The fanbook I mean.
Click to expand...
I will ask around to see how this works. Let me see what I can find
AnAverageUsername said:
I feel like it's negating the spell of your opponent through overwhelming it with superior magic power. Take that how you will.
Click to expand...
I think double liners might work? Single liners most likely chat do this. High magic power might be required and energy projection kind of thing. Or we can add this to Divine Visionary
 
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EldemadeDityjon said:
Ok I think this is how it works looking at Margarette Face reaction Black Magic is something unholy thing opposite to magic which is holy thing that's why they were shocked.
Click to expand...
I think it's more about Margarette reacting to the equivalent of a magic nuke nearly destroying them and their underlings.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Rayne most likely didn't used it against Doom and Delister due to the fact they are kinda of unholy themselves and it would be useless? They didn't possess magic due to demon hearts so it's not impossible.
Click to expand...
The brother's still poses magic with the hearts, if they didn't they wouldn't be able to use spells at all. Plus, we have Delisaster using a dose of IZ's blood to gain an infinite amount of magic.


Ah, hold on, would that mean Innocent Zero has an infinite amount of magic himself?
EldemadeDityjon said:
I will ask around to see how this works. Let me see what I can find
Click to expand...
Someone is bound to have a copy of it. Either that or it's going to be years before Viz releases it....
EldemadeDityjon said:
I think double liners might work? Single liners most likely chat do this. High magic power might be required and energy projection kind of thing. Or we can add this to Divine Visionary
Click to expand...
I think it works for double liners and above. Dot with his Ira Kruez in that arc was described to be at the level of a double liner or something like that.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
I think it's more about Margarette reacting to the equivalent of a magic nuke nearly destroying them and their underlings.
Click to expand...
Nah it looked more like they reacted to the magic color instead of nuke
AnAverageUsername said:
The brother's still poses magic with the hearts, if they didn't they wouldn't be able to use spells at all. Plus, we have Delisaster using a dose of IZ's blood to gain an infinite amount of magic.
Click to expand...
Spelling mistake I was trying to say they possess magic due to demon hearts
AnAverageUsername said:
Ah, hold on, would that mean Innocent Zero has an infinite amount of magic himself?
Click to expand...
Final form may be ?
AnAverageUsername said:
I think it works for double liners and above. Dot with his Ira Kruez in that arc was described to be at the level of a double liner or something like that.
Click to expand...
That works
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Nah it looked more like they reacted to the magic color instead of nuke

Spelling mistake I was trying to say they possess magic due to demon hearts

Final form may be ?

That works
Click to expand...
Do you think illusion induction should be in basic double line mastery or ability?

I included that there just because Lance did it and I hadn't even done the domain part.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Nah it looked more like they reacted to the magic color instead of nuke
Click to expand...
Wizards can sense powerful spells casted, or just the energy radiating from from an amplified wizard. I think it's safer to say that Margarette was reacting to that power.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Spelling mistake I was trying to say they possess magic due to demon hearts
Click to expand...
Ah
EldemadeDityjon said:
Final form may be ?
Click to expand...
Not limited to that necessarily, a little bit of his blood gives an endless amount of magic, and Innocent Zero has that shit circulating through him. Plus, we never see him tire, only his spirit broken.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Wizards can sense powerful spells casted, or just the energy radiating from from an amplified wizard. I think it's safer to say that Margarette was reacting to that power.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about Black Magic thing. They were specifically talking about that.
AnAverageUsername said:
Not limited to that necessarily, a little bit of his blood gives an endless amount of magic, and Innocent Zero has that shit circulating through him. Plus, we never see him tire, only his spirit broken.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure but might work.
 
Finally it's about time @AnAverageUsername @Phsccarvalho
vsbattles.com

Mashle: Magic Abilities Page Creation

Please check the Sandbox for a detailed explanation. All abilities are already listed in the profiles, so this page is for consolidating common abilities into one place. Here is the Sandbox (thanks to @Phsccarvalho for doing most of the work) This is how we divide abilities between characters...
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