MASHLE: Magic and Muscles Discussion Thread

[SDTaro]

This is funny

Domina is strongest magic user among IZ's Children

Then narrative be like Domina is the weakest among them. Lol

I 100% think Domina would beat the 2nd strongest brother. He was so disappointing.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I 100% think Domina would beat the 2nd strongest brother. He was so disappointing.

Doom design and character is Goated so far.
I'm currently reading 115th chapter. I will finish the series by tomorrow. Lol.

 

[SDTaro]

Doom design and character is Goated so far.
I'm currently reading 115th chapter. I will finish the series by tomorrow. Lol.

Doom is definitely the coolest brother and villain in my opinion.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This panel is

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Bruh each chapter is filled with so much great stuff

 

[AnAverageUsername]

But I'm talking about general resistance. Ryoh was also unaffected by time spell. He said only low magic gets affected by it. I think we can add this under general resistance to time stop?

Think of it like DBZ. More power = you resist the time stop, meaning it's not really any full proof ability right? But it sure is helpful in determining who's a tier above who.

I'm currently reading around in 90th chapter btw I got interested in anime & started reading the manga so I will complete the series within few days at best.
Btw I will work on Rayne profile first then few others once I finished reading this.

Ah, sorry about that, but...

Rayne Ames

Rayne Ames (レイン・エイムズ, Rein Eimuzu?), a supporting character and major ally in "Mashle: Magic and Muscles," is depicted as the Sword Cane and a recent Divine Visionary. Raised alongside his brother Finn in orphanhood, they faced hardships and constant relocation. Rayne's enrollment in Easton...

vsbattles.fandom.com

BUT I will say that you ate very much free to override my own profiles with your own. To be honest I'm not at all happy about my skills.

This is funny

Domina is strongest magic user among IZ's Children

Then narrative be like Domina is the weakest among them. Lol

Also yeah that was funny, though it's probably more like Domina is the most efficient in magic, having so many spells.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Think of it like DBZ. More power = you resist the time stop, meaning it's not really any full proof ability right? But it sure is helpful in determining who's a tier above who.

I meant like this Ryoh doesn't scale IZ still he resisted the normal time stop because he has considerable amount of magic? Like how Bleach Reatsu works?

Ah, sorry about that, but...

Rayne Ames

Rayne Ames (レイン・エイムズ, Rein Eimuzu?), a supporting character and major ally in "Mashle: Magic and Muscles," is depicted as the Sword Cane and a recent Divine Visionary. Raised alongside his brother Finn in orphanhood, they faced hardships and constant relocation. Rayne's enrollment in Easton...

vsbattles.fandom.com

BUT I will say that you ate very much free to override my own profiles with your own. To be honest I'm not at all happy about my skills.

Oh great. I might just add references and once the common abilities page gets created I will slightly adjust the P&A. let me check if any abilities are missing. Anyway good work.

Also yeah that was funny, though it's probably more like Domina is the most efficient in magic, having so many spells.

Might be.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I meant like this Ryoh doesn't scale IZ still he resisted the normal time stop because he has considerable amount of magic? Like how Bleach Reatsu works?

Yeah I think that's how it goes. They may not be stronger, but they can resist the stoppage of time with due to how much magic power they have anyways. Same with Wahlberg.

Oh great. I might just add references and once the common abilities page gets created I will slightly adjust the P&A. let me check if any abilities are missing. Anyway good work.

Yeah, that would be super helpful.

Might be.

I mean Domina did have 2 variations of his Thirds. Poseidon Angus and Extreme Fury.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah I think that's how it goes. They may not be stronger, but they can resist the stoppage of time with due to how much magic power they have anyways. Same with Wahlberg.

Might work as a resistance I guess?.

I mean Domina did have 2 variations of his Thirds. Poseidon Angus and Extreme Fury.

Yeah. Doom is just percentage based fighter and other brothers of his didn't had any number spells. So you might be right.

Rayne Ames

Rayne Ames (レイン・エイムズ, Rein Eimuzu?), a supporting character and major ally in "Mashle: Magic and Muscles," is depicted as the Sword Cane and a recent Divine Visionary. Raised alongside his brother Finn in orphanhood, they faced hardships and constant relocation. Rayne's enrollment in Easton...

vsbattles.fandom.com

BUT I will say that you ate very much free to override my own profiles with your own. To be honest I'm not at all happy about my skills.

Btw his scaling chain should be changed? IIRC LOK Blog does has some upscale if it gets accepted

It seems like he was clashing with Delister, who should scale above Domina. Can we assume that within a month's time skip, Rayne trained? Previously, his speed & Power (Not Summons) was comparable to Margarette's, but in the final arc, he was going toe-to-toe with a stronger opponent than Domina. Even Margarette was scared to face Base Domina. Not to mention, Base Rayne was able to damage Delister in their initial clash, and he also tanked his attacks.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Might work as a resistance I guess?.

Perhaps. Something like "Resistance to time stop (due to their high levels of magic, this character can move in the time stopping field freely)". Of course, this would be bypassed if IZ focused on a smaller area to negate this resistance.

Yeah. Doom is just percentage based fighter and other brothers of his didn't had any number spells. So you might be right.

Well the brother's don't use their secondths because summoning is just flat out better. Even a basic spell obtains the power of a secondths, meaning there isn't much use.... but that kinda just means that Delisaster is stronger than a Thirds user with just his summons lmao.

Btw his scaling chain should be changed? IIRC LOK Blog does has some upscale if it gets accepted

Oh, you misunderstand me. That scaling chain was already accepted months ago, it's just been slowly updated after that because more chapters were releasing. But as for why I have Rayne at 6-A with his summons, that was my own addition thanks to additional info from the fanbook and just the fight in general.

It seems like he was clashing with Delister, who should scale above Domina. Can we assume that within a month's time skip, Rayne trained? Previously, his speed & Power (Not Summons) was comparable to Margarette's, but in the final arc, he was going toe-to-toe with a stronger opponent than Domina. Even Margarette was scared to face Base Domina. Not to mention, Base Rayne was able to damage Delister in their initial clash, and he also tanked his attacks.

I wouldn't really say he was going toe to toe, more like he was just surviving before he got amped by Sanitatum. As for how Rayne was able to harm Delisaster or survive attacks from him, Delisaster wasn't being serious at all and wasn't giving it his all until he busted out his summons in response to Rayne doing so. You see, because he wasnt taking things seriously, he likely didn't focus his magic power to amplify his physicals (òr maybe sharp attacks negate durability). And after Delisaster started to focus on the fight, though still not giving it his all, Rayne could not touch him. And Rayne was only taking those attacks since he was cushioning his body with magic + cracked willpower.

What I'm saying is; Sanitatum Rayne > Athena Delisaster >> Ares Rayne > base Delisaster >> base Rayne

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Perhaps. Something like "Resistance to time stop (due to their high levels of magic, this character can move in the time stopping field freely)". Of course, this would be bypassed if IZ focused on a smaller area to negate this resistance.

Might work

Well the brother's don't use their secondths because summoning is just flat out better. Even a basic spell obtains the power of a secondths, meaning there isn't much use.... but that kinda just means that Delisaster is stronger than a Thirds user with just his summons lmao.

Yeah using second is kinda waste when you have Summons amping even normal spells to second.

Btw Is it just me or some panels author forgot to draw three lines during the battles?
For example Delister vs Rayne. I see Rayne using true form of the wand but his 3rd line is missing?

Oh, you misunderstand me. That scaling chain was already accepted months ago, it's just been slowly updated after that because more chapters were releasing. But as for why I have Rayne at 6-A with his summons, that was my own addition thanks to additional info from the fanbook and just the fight in general.

Oh okay

Btw Walhberg should scale above Orter right. Feels like current profile of Walhberg rating puts him below IZ's sons and that technically puts him below Orter

I wouldn't really say he was going toe to toe, more like he was just surviving before he got amped by Sanitatum. As for how Rayne was able to harm Delisaster or survive attacks from him, Delisaster wasn't being serious at all and wasn't giving it his all until he busted out his summons in response to Rayne doing so. You see, because he wasnt taking things seriously, he likely didn't focus his magic power to amplify his physicals (òr maybe sharp attacks negate durability). And after Delisaster started to focus on the fight, though still not giving it his all, Rayne could not touch him. And Rayne was only taking those attacks since he was cushioning his body with magic + cracked willpower.

What I'm saying is; Sanitatum Rayne > Athena Delisaster >> Ares Rayne > base Delisaster >> base Rayne

I got that though I think Base Delister and Base Rayne power were equal initially and Rayne only fell apart when he got Injured and Delister also kinda stated that. But I will worry about this later. Just 30 more chapters left to read. I will see if I can find something else.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah using second is kinda waste when you have Summons amping even normal spells to second.

Hell, the anime gave more info on the power of Summons, with Cell saying something like "it increases your magic power by several magnitudes". But this is only said in the anime. But hey it helps with Summons being 10x multipliers at the very least.

Btw Is it just me or some panels author forgot to draw three lines during the battles?
For example Delister vs Rayne. I see Rayne using true form of the wand but his 3rd line is missing?

Yeah , Komoto has admitted that he forgets to draw the 3rd line whe it's unleashed. The anime should fix this.

Oh okay

Btw Walhberg should scale above Orter right. Feels like current profile of Walhberg rating puts him below IZ's sons and that technically puts him below Orter

Yeah, we were all in the mindset that Wahlberg's words would be taken at face value. But now we're thinking he was refering to his crippled weakened self. As you said, at the very least he scales above Orter (which would be High 6-A). But I personally think he should downscale from base Innocent Zero (Low 5-B), and of course his Summons would be a 10× multiplier. I say this because Innocent Zero reacted to Wahlberg using his summons by using his own, though of course IZ is still far above him. Oh, and Wahlberg is repeatedly stated to have the greatest magical power in the realm.

I got that though I think Base Delister and Base Rayne power were equal initially and Rayne only fell apart when he got Injured and Delister also kinda stated that. But I will worry about this later. Just 30 more chapters left to read. I will see if I can find something else.

Really? He stated that? Also yeah, best to finish that up. What are your other opinions on scaling?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Btw Walhberg should scale above Orter right. Feels like current profile of Walhberg rating puts him below IZ's sons and that technically puts him below Orter

In the past, this happened due to Walhberg's declaration that his children are equal or superior to him.

But this statement no longer makes sense, as we have several statements about him not only being one of Adam's strongest disciples, but also being above Meliadoul.

And Meliadoul is > several armors that were > Mash-pos dominates.

Besides, the statement itself doesn't make sense since Walhberg was not only comparing himself to both his weaker brother and his stronger one.

We were using Walhberg to give resistance to stopping time to similar ones stronger than him, but considering the position of power he will have, there will probably be fewer people with this resistance

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Btw Is it just me or some panels author forgot to draw three lines during the battles?

This is normal, but there are other things he forgets...

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hell, the anime gave more info on the power of Summons, with Cell saying something like "it increases your magic power by several magnitudes". But this is only said in the anime. But hey it helps with Summons being 10x multipliers at the very least.

Any interview from author in the involvement in the anime would work though he needs to specify that I guess?

Yeah , Komoto has admitted that he forgets to draw the 3rd line whe it's unleashed. The anime should fix this.

This is normal, but there are other things he forgets...

LMAO.

Yeah, we were all in the mindset that Wahlberg's words would be taken at face value. But now we're thinking he was refering to his crippled weakened self. As you said, at the very least he scales above Orter (which would be High 6-A). But I personally think he should downscale from base Innocent Zero (Low 5-B), and of course his Summons would be a 10× multiplier. I say this because Innocent Zero reacted to Wahlberg using his summons by using his own, though of course IZ is still far above him. Oh, and Wahlberg is repeatedly stated to have the greatest magical power in the realm.

In the past, this happened due to Walhberg's declaration that his children are equal or superior to him.

But this statement no longer makes sense, as we have several statements about him not only being one of Adam's strongest disciples, but also being above Meliadoul.

And Meliadoul is > several armors that were > Mash-pos dominates.

Besides, the statement itself doesn't make sense since Walhberg was not only comparing himself to both his weaker brother and his stronger one.

We were using Walhberg to give resistance to stopping time to similar ones stronger than him, but considering the position of power he will have, there will probably be fewer people with this resistance

At best what I see is Royh =< Walhberg
Only Children among IZ who might pose a threat to Walhberg might be Doom. That's what I see so far.

Really? He stated that?

Delister & Rayne heavily implied Delister has advantage due to stamina/magic & Regeneration than power. The more magic Rayne uses it would just put him at disadvantage.

Initially both matches with their attack. Rayne even pierced Delister head whole Delister weapon couldn't fully pierce Rayne. Rayne attacks started to fall behind later onwards. Most likely he started using most of his magic for defence like the above scan states?

Also one more thing I noticed Delister switched gears to match Rayne in every occasions.

Delister AP >= Rayne AP
Gap shouldn't be too big that's what I get. Oh btw Delister seemed to have more speed advantage. NGL.

Also yeah, best to finish that up. What are your other opinions on scaling?

I'm Ok with LOK blog. I have few more chapter left. I will see if I have anything else to say.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Any interview from author in the involvement in the anime would work though he needs to specify that I guess?

We do have an interview where Komoto talks about the anime, but DaBlue has only translated a little part of it.

At best what I see is Royh =< Walhberg
Only Children among IZ who might pose a threat to Walhberg might be Doom. That's what I see so far.

Yeah, Wahlberg and Ryoh should still be in the same realm of power. But I do think that Wahlberg outclasses even Ryoh by a large part.

Delister & Rayne heavily implied Delister has advantage due to stamina/magic & Regeneration than power. The more magic Rayne uses it would just put him at disadvantage.

Yeah, the demon hearts are a cheat code as Delisaster says. That potent regen would also be busted in any verses match unless the opponent has the fire power to put them down.

Initially both matches with their attack. Rayne even pierced Delister head whole Delister weapon couldn't fully pierce Rayne. Rayne attacks started to fall behind later onwards. Most likely he started using most of his magic for defence like the above scan states?

I'm going to be honest I forgot about the first page there lol. Also yeah, Rayne was needed to focus purely on his defense as to not get killed so soon. The goat was running on fumes and willpower.

Also one more thing I noticed Delister switched gears to match Rayne in every occasions.

Yeah, basically meaning that Delisaster needed to amplify himself as to not get outclassed. Which would mean Summons Rayne > base Delisaster

Delister AP >= Rayne AP
Gap shouldn't be too big that's what I get. Oh btw Delister seemed to have more speed advantage. NGL.

And that is true, Delisaster was able to easily react to Rayne's attacks when taking things seriously. So uhh, I guess there's evidence to upgrade base Rayne to 6-B, or make two keys.

I'm Ok with LOK blog. I have few more chapter left. I will see if I have anything else to say.

It's a blessing to have someone else who's willing to help make profiles

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah, Wahlberg and Ryoh should still be in the same realm of power. But I do think that Wahlberg outclasses even Ryoh by a large part.

Yeah Walhberg might be even Stronger

Yeah, the demon hearts are a cheat code as Delisaster says. That potent regen would also be busted in any verses match unless the opponent has the fire power to put them down.

I'm still kinda confused about the Regeneration level of them. Like Delister head got pierced he was still alive & Regenerated but when Rayne amped with Finn cutts off the head he died.

I'm going to be honest I forgot about the first page there lol. Also yeah, Rayne was needed to focus purely on his defense as to not get killed so soon.

Btw is this works for magic can be used for damage reduction?

The goat was running on fumes and willpower.

Same goes for Ryoh, Dot. Those guys willpower is crazy.

Yeah, basically meaning that Delisaster needed to amplify himself as to not get outclassed. Which would mean Summons Rayne > base Delisaster

Yeah

And that is true, Delisaster was able to easily react to Rayne's attacks when taking things seriously. So uhh, I guess there's evidence to upgrade base Rayne to 6-B, or make two keys.

Really they know IZ is a big problem I think they leveled up especially Rayne was the newest Visionary. He was comparable to Margarette but later onwards he is capable of fighting stronger opponent than Domina does makes it seem like he trained and upgraded himself during the month time skip.

Btw regarding keys why don't we give Finn as a Standard equipment for Rayne and create a key for Final Arc?
I seen Rezero character like Ram having Rem as a Standard equipment because she is used as stamina for Ram.

It's a blessing to have someone else who's willing to help make profiles

No problem bro.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

LMAO.

When finished, let me know.
-
-
-
Regarding that translation I mentioned, that's it.

So if you put a part of "Powers and resistances obtained through magical power" or something like that in that sandbox (since resistance to stopping time is not something base for any line) use this imgur.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I'm still kinda confused about the Regeneration level of them. Like Delister head got pierced he was still alive & Regenerated but when Rayne amped with Finn cutts off the head he died.

I put it at "low-mid" and possibly "mid". Delisaster didn't actually die from just the top of his head getting chopped off, it was a combination of his body getting mutilated very quickly. Basically he got overclocked, and in the end it was getting crushed by the statue that did him in.

Btw is this works for magic can be used for damage reduction?

Yeah, magic can be used as damage reduction.

Same goes for Ryoh, Dot. Those guys willpower is crazy.

I swear Mashle characters have some of the best endurance feats among Shonen Jump. Characters constantly get mutilated, have deep slashes on their bodies, have several broken bones, severe blood loss, and still keep fighting for hours.

Really they know IZ is a big problem I think they leveled up especially Rayne was the newest Visionary. He was comparable to Margarette but later onwards he is capable of fighting stronger opponent than Domina does makes it seem like he trained and upgraded himself during the month time skip.

Yeah, iirc he only became Divine Visionary right before the series began, and the story takes place over the course of around a year. So going from the Selection Exam arc to the Eclipse arc means it isn't so far fetched that Rayne got more powerful, especially when he's a prodigy.

Btw regarding keys why don't we give Finn as a Standard equipment for Rayne and create a key for Final Arc?
I seen Rezero character like Ram having Rem as a Standard equipment because she is used as stamina for Ram.

Damn that's crazy lmao. If that's really allowed, then I think Finn fits optional equipment more.

No problem bro.

What profiles are you planning to do? There's still the 4 older brothers, updating Lance and Dot, Meliadoul, Orter, Ryoh, Renatus, Kaldo, Innocent Zero, and post training Mash.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I swear Mashle characters have some of the best endurance feats among Shonen Jump. Characters constantly get mutilated, have deep slashes on their bodies, have several broken bones, severe blood loss, and still keep fighting for hours.

Yeah. This is also pretty good stamina feats.

Yeah, iirc he only became Divine Visionary right before the series began, and the story takes place over the course of around a year. So going from the Selection Exam arc to the Eclipse arc means it isn't so far fetched that Rayne got more powerful, especially when he's a prodigy.

Yeah this.

Damn that's crazy lmao. If that's really allowed, then I think Finn fits optional equipment more.

Not to mention with Finn Rayne gets buffs so it might work

What profiles are you planning to do? There's still the 4 older brothers, updating Lance and Dot, Meliadoul, Orter, Ryoh, Renatus, Kaldo, Innocent Zero, and post training Mash.

I will see. I want to work on Ryoh and Doom.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah. This is also pretty good stamina feats.

Yeah this.

Not to mention with Finn Rayne gets buffs so it might work

I will see. I want to work on Ryoh and Doom.

Oh yeah, here's my current blog if you want to help with Lance and Epidem.

AnAverageUsername001/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Oh yeah, something neat. I don't care about the debate on the fight, but the video contains some translations of the fanbook pages and some calculations of feats (somehow getting large planet level?). Just thought y'all should check it out.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Can someone explain what TF is wrong with speed scaling. Am I not getting something here?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Can someone explain what TF is wrong with speed scaling. Am I not getting something here?

?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

?

0.1 reaction speed is very less compared to Mash mtfl+ speed just confused what happened here but forget it I understand it was just the gap between him & IZ reaction speed not literal

Btw 4th wall breaking feat for Finn & Mash?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Finally completed reading the manga
Gonna be honest it's 9/10 for me. This series was worth the read.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

0.1 reaction speed is very less compared to Mash mtfl+ speed just confused what happened here but forget it I understand it was just the gap between him & IZ reaction speed not literal

Like Toriko, MFTL+ guys not being able to dodge blows 0.01

Finally completed reading the manga
Gonna be honest it's 9/10 for me. This series was worth the read.

Now talking about forgetting.

Where is Magic Spaces in IZ?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Where is Magic Spaces in IZ?

?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@AnAverageUsername @Phsccarvalho
Regarding this anything else needs to be added other than Damaged reduction and Time stop resistance?
Also Margarette magic Causing Pain should be moved to double liners? They are 2 liner right.

Phsccarvalho/Sandbox7

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[SDTaro]

Like Toriko, MFTL+ guys not being able to dodge blows 0.01


Now talking about forgetting.

Where is Magic Spaces in IZ?

If you're asking why Zero never used space magic, according to the fan book the Author said it was because Zero felt like he didn't need it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@AnAverageUsername I'm working on Raynes Profile. Just gonna add new key and fix the references then I will work on Ryoh.

EldemadeDityjon/Sandbox4

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Someone should check the raws for this

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Someone should check the raws for this

Google translation states superspeed. So this should be good. LMAO official messed up the translation. Let me ask someone to translate this for sure.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Someone should check the raws for this

Google translation states superspeed. So this should be good. LMAO official messed up the translation. Let me ask someone to translate this for sure.

Yeah, it's most likely a figure of speech to say that "damn they're fast". Also, just woke up, I'll respond to the other comments.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

0.1 reaction speed is very less compared to Mash mtfl+ speed just confused what happened here but forget it I understand it was just the gap between him & IZ reaction speed not literal

So you know how in recent OPM chapters, there was a statement that low mach speed is impressive despite all the high tier feats? Yeah we are basically in the same boat, there's more impressive feats than that so I don't think it's really important?

Btw 4th wall breaking feat for Finn & Mash?

Also yeah, there's plenty of 4th wall breaking, like when Dot commented on Lance's cutscene of his sister in the selection exam arc.

@AnAverageUsername @Phsccarvalho
Regarding this anything else needs to be added other than Damaged reduction and Time stop resistance?
Also Margarette magic Causing Pain should be moved to double liners? They are 2 liner right.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:phsccarvalho/Sandbox7

I agree, but it should be saved for the most powerful of double liners and beyond. Margarette is basically the top of the hierarchy without getting into triple liner territory by that point.

@AnAverageUsername I'm working on Raynes Profile. Just gonna add new key and fix the references then I will work on Ryoh.

EldemadeDityjon/Sandbox4

vsbattles.fandom.com

Got it. Make sure to also update the stat sections as well, though that should be obvious to say.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah, it's most likely a figure of speech to say that "damn they're fast". Also, just woke up, I'll respond to the other comments.

I got scared because of Offical translation bullshit. LMAO idk why that was messed up like this.

So you know how in recent OPM chapters, there was a statement that low mach speed is impressive despite all the high tier feats? Yeah we are basically in the same boat, there's more impressive feats than that so I don't think it's really important?

Yeah also I think this is just a gap between Mash attack speed and IZ reaction time. So shouldn't be anything big

I agree, but it should be saved for the most powerful of double liners and beyond. Margarette is basically the top of the hierarchy without getting into triple liner territory by that point.

What about Lance?

Got it. Make sure to also update the stat sections as well, though that should be obvious to say.

Yeah I will work on that. Need some time to make a explanation. Also where does Delister speed scales? Is it MFTL+ calculation apply to these characters?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I got scared because of Offical translation bullshit. LMAO idk why that was messed up like this.

I mean it's quite harnless, not like it's John Wierry

Yeah also I think this is just a gap between Mash attack speed and IZ reaction time. So shouldn't be anything big

Yeah, probably

What about Lance?

Oh yeah, I guess Lance is also around that level. But I honestly believe Margarette would win in a fight in the Selection Exam. But for the TMA arc, I think Lance surpassed them.

Yeah I will work on that. Need some time to make a explanation. Also where does Delister speed scales? Is it MFTL+ calculation apply to these characters?

Uhhh, good question. I put Rayne as subsonic before because he fought base Margarette on equal footing, but since you're planning on splitting keys, maybe Rayne is only subsonic in his first key. Perhaps Rayne in the final arc is sub-rel in base (based off the calc of Adam blasting through those mountains), and MFTL+ with Summons due to fighting Doom? Or we can just say that Summons Delisaster is faster than Extreme Fury Domina, or something.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I mean it's quite harnless, not like it's John Wierry

Yeah anything is better than Werry translations

Oh yeah, I guess Lance is also around that level. But I honestly believe Margarette would win in a fight in the Selection Exam. But for the TMA arc, I think Lance surpassed them.

I will put that in the Advanced magic users DV should scale to Margarette magic feat instead of only 3rd liners I guess? It's pure magic.

Uhhh, good question. I put Rayne as subsonic before because he fought base Margarette on equal footing, but since you're planning on splitting keys, maybe Rayne is only subsonic in his first key. Perhaps Rayne in the final arc is sub-rel in base (based off the calc of Adam blasting through those mountains), and MFTL+ with Summons due to fighting Doom? Or we can just say that Summons Delisaster is faster than Extreme Fury Domina, or something.

30% Doom is already faster than Extreme Fury Domina right? Finn Amped Rayne was able to match him. Btw now Rayne was able to half 70% of doom due to accelerated development do we need an key for Post War arc? There was also statement for Dot and Lance still not reaching Rayne and Order level by Innocent zero which would make Rayne > Children of IZ. This statement came after Mash heart was ripped off by IZ. There are people surpassing their limits in last arc powerscaling kinda went crazy NGL

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah anything is better than Werry translations

I will put that in the Advanced magic users DV should scale to Margarette magic feat instead of only 3rd liners I guess? It's pure magic.

Yeah, Divine Visonaries of course scale to and above Margarette's magic feats, meaning they get the aura. Margarette was noted to be an abnormality among the contestants in the exam arc, so only Lance should have the aura stuff as well. I'd say that the characters in the TMA arc and after should also get the aura stuff since they're supposed to be the top picks from their academies.

30% Doom is already faster than Extreme Fury Domina right? Finn Amped Rayne was able to match him.

I think so yeah, but we're not sure on what percentage Doom uses before hitting 50% against Dot, Lance, Rayne, and Finn.

Btw now Rayne was able to half 70% of doom due to accelerated development do we need an key for Post War arc? There was also statement for Dot and Lance still not reaching Rayne and Order level by Innocent zero which would make Rayne > Children of IZ. This statement came after Mash heart was ripped off by IZ. There are people surpassing their limits in last arc powerscaling kinda went crazy NGL

Ehhhh, I think Rayne was included there because he's the 5th/4th strongest Visonary by word of god, and he was also present during the second raid directly against Innocent Zero. I don't think that means he scales above most of the children. But cutting Doom's chest with his spear after his strongest attack did nothing earlier is a good feat, but it should likely be contained to accelerated development.

And while we could have post series keys for our main cast, due to the extra one shot that was released in January, I don't think there's enough information for new keys aside from saying "they got stronger"

 

[Phsccarvalho]

?

IZ never used space magic again.

@AnAverageUsername @Phsccarvalho
Regarding this anything else needs to be added other than Damaged reduction and Time stop resistance?
Also Margarette magic Causing Pain should be moved to double liners? They are 2 liner right.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:phsccarvalho/Sandbox7

I put it in the third line for this reasoning.

Margaret is not a normal double line, she is on the divine visionary level, and this pain is caused by her intense magical power.

In other words, double lines don't normally have this.

However, despite her being divine visionary level, she cannot summon a god, so she is not triple line. And as we know, the lines determine the size of your magical power (from what I remember)

Then it would be the exception not the rule.

EDIT; So do you know the Dragon Ball ki manipulation page? I would add a note saying that there are exceptional characters, with so much magical power but not being triple lines, like Margaret.

EDIT 2: LoK made a list of things he wanted to add for mages in general but I don't remember where it is.

If you're asking why Zero never used space magic, according to the fan book the Author said it was because Zero felt like he didn't need it.

It's very easy for the author to invent this after finishing the manga.

He could speak in his own work.

How amateurish, especially because it's a "Because" since it seems like he didn't give reasons why Spaces wouldn't be useful for IZ.