Mash speed adjustments

[TimmyTurnero]

Mash has 2 speed feats on his profile that I believe to be exaggerated or misinterpreted.

The first feat being this one.

The calc assumes he only ran this far before Lance gave off a reaction, when in reality he ran off of the mountain, fell an unknown distance and jumped back up before Lance fully realized what had took place.

I don’t believe the accounts for the total distance which give’s inaccurate results.

The second feat being Mash temporarily keeping up with Marg.

The Calc assumes Mash and Marg traveled relative to each other at the same time, despite that not being the case.

Mash dashes to his left, Marg. notices this and uses his sound magic to travel to his left, going the opposite direction.

After this movement it is revealed that mash tricked him into moving that direction, and follows after him. You can even see on panel that Mash only travels after Marg. snaps.

Mash being 13% slower than someone who can blitz him this bad doesn’t even make sense. Both calcs should be removed.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Meh, gonna read it and argue only tomorrow or after tomorrow. Today I have a birthday to go to and tomorrow a 6 hour drive. But at a quick glance the logic is shit and take the things out of context

EDIT: Actually, whatever. I don't have anything better to do util 21:00

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Ah shit, here we go again

For the first feat, wouldn't it simply be a massive lowball? Since we're only taking the short distance which Mash blitzed Lance and not the unknown full distance?

For the second feat, looking at the panels, it seems as if Mash jumped one direction, where Margarette then snapped to the other direction, before Mash suddenly strafed to the side to follow her. So I don't see how that disproves how fast Mash is going, unless I'm misreading what you're saying.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mash being 13% slower than someone who can blitz him this bad doesn’t even make sense

Mash was not losing because of just speed. He had already shown that he was able to react, punch, and defend against sound waves with easy. Mash is clearly capable of reacting to the speed of sound without difficulty, as much as characters like Rayne. The problem is that Margarette besides being fast, is skilled as **** (Just look at her profile), which is why she is able to easily beat Mash. She is flexible and moves in a completely random way. Also, the speed that Margarette would be moving is 40 meters ahead of Mash's, which is a lot. She would be able to punch 15 times first than him, and while Mash moves one arm, Margarette would be capable to move ~37 meters away. Speed is different from AP, where the difference can be low mathematically, but virtually makes a lot of difference.

The calc assumes he only ran this far before Lance gave off a reaction, when in reality he ran off of the mountain, fell an unknown distance and jumped back up before Lance fully realized what had took place.

Mash had to at least run to where Lance was, grab the jar, and come back, all while Lance could not even realize what was happening. He couldnt even see Mash movements and where he was. I can't see any problem here

After this movement it is revealed that mash tricked him into moving that direction, and follows after him. You can even see on panel that Mash only travels after Marg. snaps.

W... What? What is your argument after all? You seems to actually agree with the calc

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Mash was not losing because of just speed. He had already shown that he was able to react, punch, and defend against sound waves with easy. Mash is clearly capable of reacting to the speed of sound without difficulty, as much as characters like Rayne. The problem is that Margarette besides being fast, is skilled as **** (Just look at her profile), which is why she is able to easily beat Mash. She is flexible and moves in a completely random way. Also, the speed that Margarette would be moving is 40 meters ahead of Mash's, which is a lot. She would be able to punch 15 times first than him, and while Mash moves one arm, Margarette would be capable to move ~37 meters away. Speed is different from AP, where the difference can be lower mathematically, but virtually makes a lot of difference.

The skills being described as sound doesn’t depict them being at the same speed, whereas Mash could casually react to these “spells” coming towards him but can’t perceive Marg at all. Are these spells stated to be at the speed of sound?

And you clearly have no idea how speed works, he can move at 343 meters per second while mash is at 301 m/s. That’s only a 13% speed difference, which according to you is 15x faster than Mash? What?

You didn’t even address what I pointed out in the OP, which clearly shows Mash moving after Marg snaps, while your calculation assumes they’re moving relative to each other within the same movement, which is simply not the case.

Mash had to at least run to where Lance was, grab the jar, and come back, all while Lance could not even realize what was happening. He couldnt even see Mash movements and where he was. I can't see any problem here

The problem is you lowballed the distance giving inaccurate results. You should account for him running off the cliff and jumping all the way back up before he could perceive him. Such a feat would be an outlier anyways.

W... What? What is your argument after all? You seems to actually agree with the calc

The calc asserts they’re moving relative, I’m disproving this given the fact that Mash only moved after Marg had traveled the initial distance.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

And there’s no reason to call an opinion differing from yours shit. It’s not that serious, take a break if needed

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Ah shit, here we go again

For the first feat, wouldn't it simply be a massive lowball? Since we're only taking the short distance which Mash blitzed Lance and not the unknown full distance?

That’s the problem, it’s lowballed and should either be recalled or removed. Given Mash’s current circumstances, the feat will probably have to be removed as it will exceed the speed of sound

For the second feat, looking at the panels, it seems as if Mash jumped one direction, where Margarette then snapped to the other direction, before Mash suddenly strafed to the side to follow her. So I don't see how that disproves how fast Mash is going, unless I'm misreading what you're saying.

Because Marg traveled the small distance in the snaps’ timeframe and only then was it that Mash traveled after her.
After her movement we see that her snap is over, she’s no longer moving at the speed of sound. Unless you’re proposing that she’s still traveling at the speed of sound? To believe that would be asserting that Mash could travel almost an entire meter before someone capable of perception blitzing him could make any notable difference in terms of movement

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

And there’s no reason to call an opinion differing from yours shit. It’s not that serious, take a break if needed

Any logic that is against mine is stupid and shit

The skills being described as sound doesn’t depict them being at the same speed, whereas Mash could casually react to these “spells” coming towards him but can’t perceive Marg at all. Are these spells stated to be at the speed of sound?

DUDE IT'S SOUND. They can come from musical instruments, they follow the logic of sound, they have the speed of sound. It is even said that to overcome such sound waves the characters initially believed that Mash would need to break the sound barrier. I'm not the one who needs to prove that sound does have the speed of sound. Moreover, magic is literally mentioned following the nature of the elements. Water Magic is made of water, lightning Magic is made of lightning, Iron Magic is made of Iron, and soon on

And you clearly have no idea how speed works, he can move at 343 meters per second while mash is at 301 m/s. That’s only a 13% speed difference, which according to you is 15x faster than Mash? What?

If Mash is moving at 301m/s and Margarette is moving at 343m/s it means that Margarette has an advantage of 42 meters, which is a lot. If Mash needs to move 1 meter to punch means that Margarette will already be 40 meters away. I have seen matches on this site where a character that moves Mach 50 stomped a character that moves Mach 48, even when in terms of percentage the difference is minimal.

The problem is you lowballed the distance giving inaccurate results. You should account for him running off the cliff and jumping all the way back up before he could perceive him. Such a feat would be an outlier anyways.

I can simply recalc lol. Theres no reason to why it would be a outlier. Even if the calculation exceeds the value of the speed of sound doesn't mean it's against the logic of the manga, since well, you know, Mash holds back in every fight

The calc asserts they’re moving relative, I’m disproving this given the fact that Mash only moved after Marg had traveled the initial distance.

Her starting to run first doesn't matter. In the scene it is clearly obvious that both are going in a straight line. What I am calculating is how much Mash has moved relative to Margarette on that panel, since it is obviously impossible for them to be standing still

 

[AnAverageUsername]

That’s the problem, it’s lowballed and should either be recalled or removed. Given Mash’s current circumstances, the feat will probably have to be removed as it will exceed the speed of sound

I'd rather take a lowball then remove the feat, if I'm being honest. We don't even know if it would be transonic or above, so saying that it "might be" as a reason to remove it feels wrong in my mind.

Because Marg traveled the small distance in the snaps’ timeframe and only then was it that Mash traveled after her.
After her movement we see that her snap is over, she’s no longer moving at the speed of sound. Unless you’re proposing that she’s still traveling at the speed of sound? To believe that would be asserting that Mash could travel almost an entire meter before someone capable of perception blitzing him could make any notable difference in terms of movement

From what I've read over the series, it only seems that Mash straffed to the other side after Margarette already snapped her fingers. As shown in the next pages, she was already moving away from Mash, which forced him to use his pinky strength to grab Marg's robes. While I will say that Margarette is faster than Mash, the feat still happened, showing Mash moving relative to Margarette for a few moments. If possible, would there be an option to say "in bursts of speed"?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Also we need to account for the fact that Mash is almost always restraining himself

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

well, I don't understand about calculations, but I'll stay neutral until an experienced commenter.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

well, I don't understand about calculations, but I'll stay neutral until an experienced commenter.

But are you a Mashle fan?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

But are you a Mashle fan?

yes i see the manga ^-^

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I'd rather take a lowball then remove the feat, if I'm being honest. We don't even know if it would be transonic or above, so saying that it "might be" as a reason to remove it feels wrong in my mind.

What? You can’t make a calc, say “lets use half the distance so we can use the calc” just the calc can stay. The calc is inaccurate and should be removed or recalced. I never said “it might be an outlier so remove it” I said it’s inaccurate fra and should be removed or recalled.

From what I've read over the series, it only seems that Mash straffed to the other side after Margarette already snapped her fingers. As shown in the next pages, she was already moving away from Mash, which forced him to use his pinky strength to grab Marg's robes. While I will say that Margarette is faster than Mash, the feat still happened, showing Mash moving relative to Margarette for a few moments. If possible, would there be an option to say "in bursts of speed"?

The calc that’s on his page claims that mash follows his movements, with the scan being measured showing this.

The measurements assuming they both traveled this distance, at the same time which is simply not true.

Marg snaps, and travels to the left of the panel

And then after Marg has made her movement, Mash then dashes over, after the movement is done. Which completely contradicts what the calc is depicting.

The sequence of events is. Mash dashes to his left< Marg sees this and travels to her left< Mash used a feint to trick her into traveling the opposite direction< Marg snap has finished (she is no longer moving at the speed of sound) Mash dashing to Marg as she’s stuck in place and moved no further distance.

The panel never shows them moving relative to each other.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

yes i see the manga ^-^

Finally, we have a net gain on fans

 

[TimmyTurnero]

DUDE IT'S SOUND. They can come from musical instruments, they follow the logic of sound, they have the speed of sound. It is even said that to overcome such sound waves the characters initially believed that Mash would need to break the sound barrier. I'm not the one who needs to prove that sound does have the speed of sound. Moreover, magic is literally mentioned following the nature of the elements. Water Magic is made of water, lightning Magic is made of lightning, Iron Magic is made of Iron, and soon on

“Dude it’s sound” yet it’s tangible can be aeen by the naked eye and takes shape that natural sound does not. While sharing properties of sound it’s clearly fundamentally different. It’s magic, and as such if there’s no statement asserting that it’s moving at the same speed there’s no reason to assert much especially when there’s evidence going against it.
No one claimed that to dodge the sound spells he would have to “break the sound barrier” he said to dodge the sound blasts he would have to travel faster than sound in nature. He says in a way he’s traveling faster than “sound” (the sound underground) which is “freaky” no where does anyone claim he’s moving faster than the true speed of sound.

And no where in that scan does it state “all magic follows the natural properties that it share with nature” it simply states that he can control water with his magic. Where in the hell did you even get that from? Lol.

If Mash is moving at 301m/s and Margarette is moving at 343m/s it means that Margarette has an advantage of 42 meters, which is a lot. If Mash needs to move 1 meter to punch means that Margarette will already be 40 meters away. I have seen matches on this site where a character that moves Mach 50 stomped a character that moves Mach 48, even when in terms of percentage the difference is minimal.

Bro, I promise you by everything I love that this isn’t how speed works at all.
343 m/s means he could travel 1 meter in .0029s while 301 m/s could travel .0033s. The difference doesn’t exist, and you clearly have a poor understanding of speed.
You’re claiming he could travel 42 meters before mash could travel one, that would make Marg 42x faster than mash.

I don’t see any simpler way to put this buddy.

I can simply recalc lol. Theres no reason to why it would be a outlier. Even if the calculation exceeds the value of the speed of sound doesn't mean it's against the logic of the manga, since well, you know, Mash holds back in every fight

If it exceeds the speed of sound then it would directly contradict the narrative, where Mash is forced to strategize against someone because he’s not fast enough to keep up with them.
Recalc would probably be better.

Her starting to run first doesn't matter. In the scene it is clearly obvious that both are going in a straight line. What I am calculating is how much Mash has moved relative to Margarette on that panel, since it is obviously impossible for them to be standing still

….. What? Holly shit what? I have no idea how to break this down to you bud.
Marg moves X distance first, and then Mash moves after her once she stopped moving. You see this on panel, never is Mash shown to move relative to her while she is traveling at the speed of sound.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Mash doesn’t scale to something he can’t even perceive

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

yet it’s tangible

Lmao

Gonna respond only tomorrow

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Mash doesn’t scale to something he can’t even perceive

Mash gets blitz by Marg moving at the speed of sound from over 10 meters away

And can react to these sound attacks while they are less than a meter away from his face. They aren’t relative in speed, lol.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

What? You can’t make a calc, say “lets use half the distance so we can use the calc” just the calc can stay. The calc is inaccurate and should be removed or recalced. I never said “it might be an outlier so remove it” I said it’s inaccurate fra and should be removed or recalled.

One of your points was about it being much higher, which would make it an outlier, so I focused on that part. You do make sense on the inaccurate part due to it being a big low ball, but I'd still rather have a way to get the full distance instead of removing it.

The calc that’s on his page claims that mash follows his movements, with the scan being measured showing this.

sorry, image doesn't work

The measurements assuming they both traveled this distance, at the same time which is simply not true.

Marg snaps, and travels to the left of the panel

And then after Marg has made her movement, Mash then dashes over, after the movement is done. Which completely contradicts what the calc is depicting.

From what I'm looking at, Marg is still in the middle of her movement as Mash strafes to the left. I infer this mainly because of the speed lines on Margarette still being present, if that makes sense.

The sequence of events is. Mash dashes to his left< Marg sees this and travels to her left< Mash used a feint to trick her into traveling the opposite direction< Marg snap has finished (she is no longer moving at the speed of sound) Mash dashing to Marg as she’s stuck in place and moved no further distance.

See my above comment

The panel never shows them moving relative to each other.

I guess me saying relative was a slip of the tongue, I can't find the word atm

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Lmao

Gonna respond only tomorrow

You do realize words can have more than one definition?
“
capable of being precisely identified or realized by the mind”

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Mash gets blitz by Marg moving at the speed of sound from over 10 meters away

And can react to these sound attacks while they are less than a meter away from his face. They aren’t relative in speed, lol.

Or the original intention was Mash being faster than sound before Komoto changed that idea idk

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sound being slower than sound it's such a magnificant thing ngl

 

[TimmyTurnero]

From what I'm looking at, Marg is still in the middle of her movement as Mash strafes to the left. I infer this mainly because of the speed lines on Margarette still being present, if that makes sense.

I can agree she is still moving but she is no longer moving at the speed of sound, her snap is shown to have ended she’s no longer traveling at the speed of the snap.
Mash only moves after the snap has ended, and if you and the other guy believes she’s still moving at the speed of sound (baseless) then you’re asserting that Mash could statue her (he made his movement before she could travel even a centimeter from her initial spot, this is MHS levels of speed)

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Or the original intention was Mash being faster than sound before Komoto changed that idea idk

This is baseless, again, the idea that the initial spells are the speed of sound are never stated or implied within the series, and given the sequence of events presented later this claim is further contradicted. The idea is supported by nothing but headcanon.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Finally, we have a net gain on fans

Hehehe

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I can agree she is still moving but she is no longer moving at the speed of sound, her snap is shown to have ended she’s no longer traveling at the speed of the snap.
Mash only moves after the snap has ended, and if you and the other guy believes she’s still moving at the speed of sound (baseless) then you’re asserting that Mash could statue her (he made his movement before she could travel even a centimeter from her initial spot, this is MHS levels of speed)

I don't think it's baseless actually, that Marg is still moving at the speed of sound when she travels through snapping. From what I remember, the reason she's able to move around is from the sound of her snapping. What we see during Mash's feint is the process of Marg traveling at the speed of sound, it isn't instantaneous.

I think I'm starting to see what you're thinking. Mash jumps to the right, causing Margarette to choose to travel to the left. However, Mash predicts this, and suddenly changes direction to travel the same direction of Marg, at the same time she starts traveling. Marg is still faster, but Mash uses his pinky to catch her. Is this about right?

This is baseless, again, the idea that the initial spells are the speed of sound are never stated or implied within the series, and given the sequence of events presented later this claim is further contradicted. The idea is supported by nothing but headcanon.

Hey, it was just a little guess, I don't know what goes on in the authors head. I only said it as a quick throw away.

Hehehe

Please join the Mashle thread, we need more than 4 people there

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I don't think it's baseless actually, that Marg is still moving at the speed of sound when she travels through snapping. From what I remember, the reason she's able to move around is from the sound of her snapping. What we see during Mash's feint is the process of Marg traveling at the speed of sound, it isn't instantaneous.

You’re partially there, she travels using her snaps. She picks and choose where she to stop traveling, how far she wants to travel etc. this is all determined by the end of her snap. At the end of all her movements, her snaps ends, as only then does the sound of her snap truly stops.

I think I'm starting to see what you're thinking. Mash jumps to the right, causing Margarette to choose to travel to the left. However, Mash predicts this, and suddenly changes direction to travel the same direction of Marg, at the same time she starts traveling. Marg is still faster, but Mash uses his pinky to catch her. Is this about right?

Kinda? He tricks her to go to the right, she does this by using her snaps. She’s traveling at the speed of sound.
But as we see on panel, her snap has stopped, she’s no longer moving at the speed of sound she simply did this to outmaneuver Mash who tricked her into believing he was moving the other direction. After this sequence, Mash then dashes toward her. She’s not moving at the speed of sound, her snap is over, she’s not doing anything. Mash never traveled relative to her like the calc assumes.

The premise of the calc has nothing to do with the pinky grab, that’s an entirely different scene.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't think it's baseless actually, that Marg is still moving at the speed of sound when she travels through snapping. From what I remember, the reason she's able to move around is from the sound of her snapping. What we see during Mash's feint is the process of Marg traveling at the speed of sound, it isn't instantaneous.

I think I'm starting to see what you're thinking. Mash jumps to the right, causing Margarette to choose to travel to the left. However, Mash predicts this, and suddenly changes direction to travel the same direction of Marg, at the same time she starts traveling. Marg is still faster, but Mash uses his pinky to catch her. Is this about right?

Hey, it was just a little guess, I don't know what goes on in the authors head. I only said it as a quick throw away.

Please join the Mashle thread, we need more than 4 people there

ok, could you send me the link?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

You’re partially there, she travels using her snaps. She picks and choose where she to stop traveling, how far she wants to travel etc. this is all determined by the end of her snap. At the end of all her movements, her snaps ends, as only then does the sound of her snap truly stops.

I guess you can see it that way. From what I read, I always figured that Margarette snaps, and then moves towards the desired location at the speed of sound, before stopping at said location

Kinda? He tricks her to go to the right, she does this by using her snaps. She’s traveling at the speed of sound.
But as we see on panel, her snap has stopped, she’s no longer moving at the speed of sound she simply did this to outmaneuver Mash who tricked her into believing he was moving the other direction. After this sequence, Mash then dashes toward her. She’s not moving at the speed of sound, her snap is over, she’s not doing anything. Mash never traveled relative to her like the calc assumes.

This debate mainly revolves around reading the last posts of each other. I think Margarette still moves at the speed of sound after she snaps until she stops, you think differently. Maybe it would be best to get a 3rd parties opinion?

The premise of the calc has nothing to do with the pinky grab, that’s an entirely different scene.

I was just listing out the scene in full

ok, could you send me the link?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/mashle-magic-and-muscles-discussion-thread.110526/

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I guess you can see it that way. From what I read, I always figured that Margarette snaps, and then moves towards the desired location at the speed of sound, before stopping at said location

That’s not what I said? I agree that’s exactly how this ability works, she snaps, and during the snap she travels at the speed of the snap and can choose when or where she wants to stop, doing this all in the process of snapping.

This debate mainly revolves around reading the last posts of each other. I think Margarette still moves at the speed of sound after she snaps until she stops, you think differently. Maybe it would be best to get a 3rd parties opinion?

We think the same, I fail to see the what this proves though? The calc asserts that they move relative to each other, which is narratively invalid and the CRT is made to disprove this belief.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

That’s not what I said? I agree that’s exactly how this ability works, she snaps, and during the snap she travels at the speed of the snap and can choose when or where she wants to stop, doing this all in the process of snapping.

We think the same, I fail to see the what this proves though? The calc asserts that they move relative to each other, which is narratively invalid and the CRT is made to disprove this belief.

Oh, wait, I think I'm reading this all wrong. I thought you meant that Margarette snapped at the speed of sound, and then traveled slower. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Oh, wait, I think I'm reading this all wrong. I thought you meant that Margarette snapped at the speed of sound, and then traveled slower. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

???? Lol

 

[AnAverageUsername]

???? Lol

Yeah, its a Lol moment, im a dumb dumb. So, just to be clear, could you restate your points?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Ok, calc premise is Mash travels at the same time as Marg. He found his speed by doing so, not only are his measurements incorrect but the idea that they’re traveling at the same time is incorrect.

As we see in the scan, Marg snaps, and then after the snap has taken place, Mash then travels after her. He never travels alongside Marg.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Ok, calc premise is Mash travels at the same time as Marg. He found his speed by doing so, not only are his measurements incorrect but the idea that they’re traveling at the same time is incorrect.

As we see in the scan, Marg snaps, and then after the snap has taken place, Mash then travels after her. He never travels alongside Marg.

Ah, that makes more sense.

So would this be another case of using stuff like, "0.5 seconds after snap, 1 second after snap," etc?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Ah, that makes more sense.

So would this be another case of using stuff like, "0.5 seconds after snap, 1 second after snap," etc?

If he wants to find another way to find his speed during this scene, by all means go crazy. I’m only here to disprove the belief of Mash moving relative to Marg. or is 13% slower than someone who can blitz him.
Glad to know you agree though.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Should mash being capable of swimming be a justification for accelerated development?

Him being insanely strong would allow him to do such without having proper understanding of the fundamentals behind it.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

If he wants to find another way to find his speed during this scene, by all means go crazy. I’m only here to disprove the belief of Mash moving relative to Marg. or is 13% slower than someone who can blitz him.
Glad to know you agree though.

Eh, I don't necessarily agree, but I see your side and agree somewhat with it. If it leads to a more accurate result, I'm all for it

Should mash being capable of swimming be a justification for accelerated development?

Him being insanely strong would allow him to do such without having proper understanding of the fundamentals behind it.

I don't know, he didn't know how to swim right before. Whether it was through pure strength or learning at that moment, it's never elaborated upon. However, there are other points where Mash has displayed AD, such as when he rapidly grew in power in 2-3 days against 10 "armor people" who were stated to be very much above him, and beat them all.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I don't know, he didn't know how to swim right before. Whether it was through pure strength or learning at that moment, it's never elaborated upon. However, there are other points where Mash has displayed AD, such as when he rapidly grew in power in 2-3 days against 10 "armor people" who were stated to be very much above him, and beat them all.

Didn’t mean to send that here, but given the texture of the scans it’s clear that he was doing it via sheer arm arm strength. I agree he has better feats but I think that justification should be removed