Big Mashle revision

[TimmyTurnero]

Looking back at the Mashle profiles I’ve noticed that they were outdated, and considering that they were made by one person and the lack of supports for the verse may lead to inflated additions, I think they are in need of a revision.

Powers and Abilities

Mash has several abilities listed on his profile that I believe are either blown out of proportion or baseless altogether.

• Acrobatics | While I believe the ability should stay some of the justifications are unnecessary or doesn’t fit the explanation of the ability. Crawling quickly as a baby isn’t evidence of Acrobatics nor is making a 90 degree turn “without losing momentum.” The user also claims he didn’t lose momentum yet the scan doesn’t imply this. I think both reasoning should be removed.
• Supernatural Willpower | Same as before, I think the justification should be changed to make it less clutter. Mash having bottomless optimism and wanting to help people isn’t Supernatural willpower, and Mash was never presented to have fought with a broken spine. Both sections should be removed, the rest is fine.
• Afterimage Creation | The scan used as evidence only shows multiple silhouette of mash playing soccer. These aren’t stated to afterimages, it is simply an artistic impression to show case multiple movements in a single panel. Tricking people into thinking your clothes are you isn’t afterimage creation. This ability should be removed.
• Reactive Evolution | The justification doesn’t work, as it’s never stated Mash couldn’t resist this ability nor is it confirmed that he can naturally adapt to abilities like this. Mash is constantly holding back and all this is showing is mash superiority to Lance. This should be removed.
• Extrasensory Perception and Minor Information Analysis | This should be changed to Limited Extrasensory Perception with the removal of Information Analysis. Mash himself cannot perceive the aura’s of his opponent or see the statistic of his opponent’s, the evidence on the profile only shows his muscles twitching in the presence of a powerful opponent. He himself cannot depict how strong so this ability should limited. The justification of him “feeling a powerful attack before it has even attacked” is also false. The attack clearly clamped onto his leg and even Zero (the person he was fighting) notes that Mash physically felt the difference in power between them.
• Limited Self Kinetic Energy Control | This ability is linking to Physics Manipulation which is described as “the ability to distort, alter, and manipulate the laws of physics and the fundamental forces that govern natural phenomena in the universe” the evidence on the page doesn’t state nor imply what the justification states. It never says “mash can exert the same level of power despite being slowed down or attacking an opponent with a graze” which is what the Profile creator is saying. Mash has never shown such an ability and having explosive power while slowed downed is just an application of having intense strength.
• Accelerated Development | Mash “learning” how to swim shouldn’t be a justification of this ability. Mash never learned the fundamentals of said ability, but used his overwhelming arm strength to quickly maneuver underwater. Such is simply an application of having great strength. Him being capable of countering a simplistic attack he has seen before isn’t AD, this should also be removed. Mash, during training, had to fight knights that were described as “just above” his level. The only thing that made them unbeatable was there varying abilities such as invisible arrows. Mash countering this wouldn’t be impossible due to Analytical Prediction which would allow him to counter such an ability. This ability should be removed from his profile. The reasoning should be reworded
• Limited Regeneration | I think this ability is alright, though I am in disagreement with it, the reasoning should be changed around. Clenching your muscles, something he has to show proof of, to stop bleeding isn’t regenerative powers. Mash is never stated to have had his spine “pierced” given the angle this could have easily missed his spine or anything. His shirt doesn’t even have a hole in it. It appears to be one of Mash many instances of tricking his opponents into believing they’ve done one thing despite it not being the case.
• Instinctive Reactions | This ability should be limited, as he only showcased such when his creampuffs were being taken away from him or when he is sleeping, which even then his body only preformed certain acts (such as exercise), is such a thing instinctive Reactions?
• Density Manipulation | Mash has never showcased the ability to change the density of his own body. The justification on his profile claims such but the scan provided doesn’t state this. The scan states that Mash’s body naturally compresses his muscles (a real life phenomenon) to allow him to be so strong without having a large physique. This also allows him to to attack with great force as his muscles act like a compressed spring (real life phenomenon). Mash doesn’t have control over his body’s density, this ability should be removed.
• Stealth Mastery | Mash has never shown the ability to conceal his own presence not has he been shown to be aware of his own “aura”. The people on his profile where shown to be caught off guard or haven’t showcased the ability to see this pressure given off by Mash. This ability should be removed.
• Statistic Amplification | Mash is constantly holding back, naming an attack (something he does in series to trick people into thinking he has magic) and doing an impressive feat is simply done by him using more power than usual. Saitama having a casual punch and then a serious punch isn’t statistic amplification for that same reason. This ability should be removed.
• Limited Perception Manipulation | Mash himself cannot cause hallucinations. Him choking someone and human biology kicking In doesn’t indicate he has some supernatural ability capable of doing such. It’s like saying stabbing someone and them dying from shock is death manipulation.
• Analytic Prediction | The first part is fine, but the part about him reacting to FTE attacks is false, not once does it state ,in series, that Doom was FTE to Mash, reacting to an FTE attack point blank range is literally impossible with Analytic Prediction, this would be a showcasing of baseline speed.
• Limited Attack Reflection | Do I even have to explain this

Resistances

• Gravity Manipulation | Mash only resisted this by being physically strong. It’s a rule on the literal ability that resisting gravity attacks via LS doesn’t warrant this ability.
• Fear Manipulation | Walenburg has never showcased being capable of passively doing this, nor do we know if this is caused by his aura. Such is never stated. So Mash standing next to him isn’t an indication of resistance. Walenburg himself even implies that this was a spell used on an opponent. “Oh if that scares you” he himself acknowledges that he is aware of what he just did to the underling. Showing someone a vision of death is different than them having hallucinations out of sheer fear. Again, this isn’t shown to be passive. This resistance should be removed.
  
  
• Curse and Mind Manipulation | Mash is never stated to have the most “powerful mental fortitude in the verse” and being capable of overcoming most spells in the world via being physically strong has no correlation with resisting mental or supernatural attacks. This would only be in reference to overcoming physical magic with even higher physical output. Mash shouldn’t be granted this resistance due to an entirety different character breaking free from this ability. It’s baseless and downright incorrect. He associates the darkness mind control with corruption due to it controlling an entire civilization… that’s just mind control, and mash doesn’t even resist this. The magic has different properties and giving magma the ability to absorb mass doesn’t indicate that anything it does will share this ability, this is baseless
• Empathic Manipulation | This spell is stated to only work when the defender has some feelings towards her, it’s stated that Mash doesn’t have any feelings towards her, this isn’t an resistance.
• Soul Manipulation | Mash being physically strong doesn’t depict that he has the same resistances as other people. The reasoning is just faulty and “soul-splitting pain!” Is not soul manipulation, it’s clearly an exaggeration used to indicate the level of pain the monsters would inflict from their strikes. You don’t resist soul manipulation from being physically strong.
• Body Puppetry | Abel is shown to control his opponents physically, all Mash did was overpower his physical control over him with superior strength. It’s the equivalent of beating Telekinetic powers with higher LS. This isn’t a resistance.
• Attack Reflection | It’s directly stated this attack reflection was done by being physically superior to a weaker spell. This isn’t attack reflection and fighting someone who hasn’t even been shown to have this ability isn’t resistance to attack reflection.
  
  
• Acid Manipulation | FRA, he doesn’t scale to someone’s else resistan

Mash other keys should lose gravity manipulation resistance, he should also lose metal manipulation from bending metal. Bending metal with physical strength isn’t muscle manipulation.
His other key shouldn’t have Enhanced Afterimage creation but should have the regular ability and should lose Stats Amp.

That is all.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Here’s a sandbox with all of these changes, it can be adjusted accordingly.

sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Obviously following, will read over

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I will say for the Resistances part, the whole "superior to other characters physicals thus gaining their resistances" was due to this statement by Wahlberg, though it does only say "excel"

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I will say for the Resistances part, the whole "superior to other characters physicals thus gaining their resistances" was due to this statement by Wahlberg, though it does only say "excel"

Im aware, and nothing in this scan depicts he would have resistances superior to anyone else in the series. The series state he possess all of these qualities greater than anyone in the series which isn’t stated or depicted in this scan

 

[Phsccarvalho]

At first I agree about the Resistance part.

However I'm not sure about resistance to soul manipulation and attack reflection. I'll wait for more people to comment.

On the part of powers and abilities, I'll remain neutral until I see if there's going to be a disagreement debate, to see the arguments on both sides.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Looking back at the Mashle profiles I’ve noticed that they were outdated, and considering that they were made by one person and the lack of supports for the verse may lead to inflated additions, I think they are in need of a revision.

Powers and Abilities

Mash has several abilities listed on his profile that I believe are either blown out of proportion or baseless altogether.

• Acrobatics | While I believe the ability should stay some of the justifications are unnecessary or doesn’t fit the explanation of the ability. Crawling quickly as a baby isn’t evidence of Acrobatics nor is making a 90 degree turn “without losing momentum.” The user also claims he didn’t lose momentum yet the scan doesn’t imply this. I think both reasoning should be removed.

Agree that it should be changed/reworded

• Supernatural Willpower | Same as before, I think the justification should be changed to make it less clutter. Mash having bottomless optimism and wanting to help people isn’t Supernatural willpower, and Mash was never presented to have fought with a broken spine. Both sections should be removed, the rest is fine.

same as above, agree

• Afterimage Creation | The scan used as evidence only shows multiple silhouette of mash playing soccer. These aren’t stated to afterimages, it is simply an artistic impression to show case multiple movements in a single panel. Tricking people into thinking your clothes are you isn’t afterimage creation. This ability should be removed.

agree

• Reactive Evolution | The justification doesn’t work, as it’s never stated Mash couldn’t resist this ability nor is it confirmed that he can naturally adapt to abilities like this. Mash is constantly holding back and all this is showing is mash superiority to Lance. This should be removed.

agree

• Extrasensory Perception and Minor Information Analysis | This should be changed to Limited Extrasensory Perception with the removal of Information Analysis. Mash himself cannot perceive the aura’s of his opponent or see the statistic of his opponent’s, the evidence on the profile only shows his muscles twitching in the presence of a powerful opponent. He himself cannot depict how strong so this ability should limited. The justification of him “feeling a powerful attack before it has even attacked” is also false. The attack clearly clamped onto his leg and even Zero (the person he was fighting) notes that Mash physically felt the difference in power between them.

agree

• Limited Self Kinetic Energy Control | This ability is linking to Physics Manipulation which is described as “the ability to distort, alter, and manipulate the laws of physics and the fundamental forces that govern natural phenomena in the universe” the evidence on the page doesn’t state nor imply what the justification states. It never says “mash can exert the same level of power despite being slowed down or attacking an opponent with a graze” which is what the Profile creator is saying. Mash has never shown such an ability and having explosive power while slowed downed is just an application of having intense strength.

agree

• Accelerated Development | Mash “learning” how to swim shouldn’t be a justification of this ability. Mash never learned the fundamentals of said ability, but used his overwhelming arm strength to quickly maneuver underwater. Such is simply an application of having great strength. Him being capable of countering a simplistic attack he has seen before isn’t AD, this should also be removed. Mash, during training, had to fight knights that were described as “just above” his level. The only thing that made them unbeatable was there varying abilities such as invisible arrows. Mash countering this wouldn’t be impossible due to Analytical Prediction which would allow him to counter such an ability. This ability should be removed from his profile.

Half agree, those knights were stated to be above Mash's level that Mash would have no chance at beating them at his current, as stated by Meliadoul. So while I do agree that the other justifications don't fit, I will say that him fighting the Knights should count. Especially since the whole training montage was about Mash needing to get strong enough to fight Innocent Zero.

• Limited Regeneration | I think this ability is alright, though I am in disagreement with it, the reasoning should be changed around. Clenching your muscles, something he has to show proof of, to stop bleeding isn’t regenerative powers. Mash is never stated to have had his spine “pierced” given the angle this could have easily missed his spine or anything. His shirt doesn’t even have a hole in it. It appears to be one of Mash many instances of tricking his opponents into believing they’ve done one thing despite it not being the case.

I don't know if you misplaced the commas, but are you talking about there needing to be proof for Mash being able to clench his muscles? Because Mash did just that in his fight against Abyss Razor. And for the trident part, Mash was indeed pierced directly by it. Not arguing if it hit his spine, but it's shown to have blood on it with Mash's shirt being ripped.

Saying that Mash's shirt doesn't have a hole in it afterward can just be chalked up to art inconsistencies, something Komoto is very intimate with. And right after, we see Domina's trident broken in half.

• Instinctive Reactions | This ability should be limited, as he only showcased such when his creampuffs were being taken away from him or when he is sleeping, which even then his body only preformed certain acts (such as exercise), is such a thing instinctive Reactions?

Agree I guess

• Density Manipulation | Mash has never showcased the ability to change the density of his own body. The justification on his profile claims such but the scan provided doesn’t state this. The scan states that Mash’s body naturally compresses his muscles (a real life phenomenon) to allow him to be so strong without having a large physique. This also allows him to to attack with great force as his muscles act like a compressed spring (real life phenomenon). Mash doesn’t have control over his body’s density, this ability should be removed.

Agree

• Stealth Mastery | Mash has never shown the ability to conceal his own presence not has he been shown to be aware of his own “aura”. The people on his profile where shown to be caught off guard or haven’t showcased the ability to see this pressure given off by Mash. This ability should be removed.

Eh, on the edge with this one

• Statistic Amplification | Mash is constantly holding back, naming an attack (something he does in series to trick people into thinking he has magic) and doing an impressive feat is simply done by him using more power than usual. Saitama having a casual punch and then a serious punch isn’t statistic amplification for that same reason. This ability should be removed.

I guess this makes sense, but even when Mash is at his peak, as shown in his fight against Domina's thirds, Mash still used what appeared to be Big Bang Dash and accelerated faster. So, eh.

• Limited Perception Manipulation | Mash himself cannot cause hallucinations. Him choking someone and human biology kicking In doesn’t indicate he has some supernatural ability capable of doing such. It’s like saying stabbing someone and them dying from shock is death manipulation.

Sure, agree

• Analytic Prediction | The first part is fine, but the part about him reacting to FTE attacks is false, not once does it state ,in series, that Doom was FTE to Mash, reacting to an FTE attack point blank range is literally impossible with Analytic Prediction, this would be a showcasing of baseline speed.

Agree(?)

• Limited Attack Reflection | Do I even have to explain this

Agree

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Im aware, and nothing in this scan depicts he would have resistances superior to anyone else in the series. The series state he possess all of these qualities greater than anyone in the series which isn’t stated or depicted in this scan

I know, just thought I'd give the scan that was being used for the justifications

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I will say for the Resistances part, the whole "superior to other characters physicals thus gaining their resistances" was due to this statement by Wahlberg, though it does only say "excel"

I don't think this is enough to give Mashle the resistances. Wahlberg only says that he is excellent in these characteristics. In addition to him not being described as the "most powerful mental fortress in the verse", I don't remember the work saying that he gains resistance because of these excellent characteristics

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I don't think this is enough to give Mashle the resistances. Wahlberg only says that he is excellent in these characteristics. In addition to him not being described as the "most powerful mental fortress in the verse", I don't remember the work saying that he gains resistance because of these excellent characteristics

Read above, we're all typing too fast that we're missing the other arguments lol

Also, Mashle isn't Naruto, the mc's name is just Mash and it bugs me when people call him "Mashle"

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Read above, we're all typing too fast that we're missing the other arguments lol

Also, Mashle isn't Naruto, the mc's name is just Mash and it bugs me when people call him "Mashle"

I saw your comments, I just said that I don't agree with the justification used.

And about his name, I sometimes confuse and write Mashle. It looks so much the same that I don't even mind writing like that

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Half agree, those knights were stated to be above Mash's level that Mash would have no chance at beating them at his current, as stated by Meliadoul. So while I do agree that the other justifications don't fit, I will say that him fighting the Knights should count. Especially since the whole training montage was about Mash needing to get strong enough to fight Innocent Zero.

They’re supposed to be impossible to defeat as each possess qualities that Mash normally cannot defend against. I.e. invisible arrows.
In terms of strength, they aren’t reference to be so much superior to him, instead it’s directly stated that they’re “just above his level” which depicts a level of strength not too much greater than.
Mash doesn’t even consider them to he particularly challenging, despite them being on his level.

I don't know if you misplaced the commas, but are you talking about there needing to be proof for Mash being able to clench his muscles? Because Mash did just that in his fight against Abyss Razor. And for the trident part, Mash was indeed pierced directly by it. Not arguing if it hit his spine, but it's shown to have blood on it with Mash's shirt being ripped.

Saying that Mash's shirt doesn't have a hole in it afterward can just be chalked up to art inconsistencies, something Komoto is very intimate with. And right after, we see Domina's trident broken in half.

I said I need proof of mashing clenching his muscles to heal wounds, such is claimed on the profile. He needs to prove this.
Neutral on the hole.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

They’re supposed to be impossible to defeat as each possess qualities that Mash normally cannot defend against. I.e. invisible arrows.
In terms of strength, they aren’t reference to be so much superior to him, instead it’s directly stated that they’re “just above his level” which depicts a level of strength not too much greater than.

Yeah, they're a level above him. But it isn't all about the hax for them, like invisible arrows. They do play a role, but some knights are just simple fighters, such as one knight that looks a lot like Ornstein just using a spear to thrust.

Mash doesn’t even consider them to he particularly challenging, despite them being on his level.

I think that could be used as evidence for Mash having some good AD, as even Meliadoul states that he's the most impressive student she's had, being able to take out 10 of the knights in just 4 days with Meliadoul then stating it would take a normal person a month to do so and that his speed was "frankly astonishing"

I said I need proof of mashing clenching his muscles to heal wounds, such is claimed on the profile.

Oh no, I'm not arguing for the healing, I was just supporting that he can clench his muscles

He needs to prove this.
Neutral on the hole.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Yeah, they're a level above him. But it isn't all about the hax for them, like invisible arrows. They do play a role, but some knights are just simple fighters, such as one knight that looks a lot like Ornstein just using a spear to thrust.

We don’t know anything about the knights, all we know is that they’re barely stronger than mash and not even mash consider them too powerful. The entire point was for mash to train himself to overcome unknown/unforeseen confrontations hence invisible arrows.
If we can’t quantify how much stronger than mash they are we cannot say he’s developing faster than normal to beat these guys, if it’s never been established they’re so physically strong mash can’t best them.

I think that could be used as evidence for Mash having some good AD, as even Meliadoul states that he's the most impressive student she's had, being able to take out 10 of the knights in just 4 days with Meliadoul then stating it would take a normal person a month to do so and that his speed was "frankly astonishing"

Same as above, mash unique fighting style and analytical abilities would allow this to be the case, nothing implies his body is developing unnaturally.

Oh no, I'm not arguing for the healing, I was just supporting that he can clench his muscles

Ok

 

[Epiccheev]

Acrobatics | While I believe the ability should stay some of the justifications are unnecessary or doesn’t fit the explanation of the ability. Crawling quickly as a baby isn’t evidence of Acrobatics nor is making a 90 degree turn “without losing momentum.” The user also claims he didn’t lose momentum yet the scan doesn’t imply this. I think both reasoning should be removed.

Fair, i agree

Supernatural Willpower | Same as before, I think the justification should be changed to make it less clutter. Mash having bottomless optimism and wanting to help people isn’t Supernatural willpower, and Mash was never presented to have fought with a broken spine. Both sections should be removed, the rest is fine.

Agreed

Afterimage Creation | The scan used as evidence only shows multiple silhouette of mash playing soccer. These aren’t stated to afterimages, it is simply an artistic impression to show case multiple movements in a single panel. Tricking people into thinking your clothes are you isn’t afterimage creation. This ability should be removed.

Fair, on the specific scan, but i'm pretty sure UPM Mash should have it due to what he did against Domina's thirdth using water buckets.

Reactive Evolution | The justification doesn’t work, as it’s never stated Mash couldn’t resist this ability nor is it confirmed that he can naturally adapt to abilities like this. Mash is constantly holding back and all this is showing is mash superiority to Lance. This should be removed.

Agree. This is probably from before we discovered he was holding back

Extrasensory Perception and Minor Information Analysis | This should be changed to Limited Extrasensory Perception with the removal of Information Analysis. Mash himself cannot perceive the aura’s of his opponent or see the statistic of his opponent’s, the evidence on the profile only shows his muscles twitching in the presence of a powerful opponent. He himself cannot depict how strong so this ability should limited. The justification of him “feeling a powerful attack before it has even attacked” is also false. The attack clearly clamped onto his leg and even Zero (the person he was fighting) notes that Mash physically felt the difference in power between them.

Agree

Limited Self Kinetic Energy Control | This ability is linking to Physics Manipulation which is described as “the ability to distort, alter, and manipulate the laws of physics and the fundamental forces that govern natural phenomena in the universe” the evidence on the page doesn’t state nor imply what the justification states. It never says “mash can exert the same level of power despite being slowed down or attacking an opponent with a graze” which is what the Profile creator is saying. Mash has never shown such an ability and having explosive power while slowed downed is just an application of having intense strength.

Agree for now, Mash does have a lot of skill feats that are borderline looney tunes shit, but that's kinda moot for this specific ability.

Accelerated Development | Mash “learning” how to swim shouldn’t be a justification of this ability. Mash never learned the fundamentals of said ability, but used his overwhelming arm strength to quickly maneuver underwater. Such is simply an application of having great strength. Him being capable of countering a simplistic attack he has seen before isn’t AD, this should also be removed. Mash, during training, had to fight knights that were described as “just above” his level. The only thing that made them unbeatable was there varying abilities such as invisible arrows. Mash countering this wouldn’t be impossible due to Analytical Prediction which would allow him to counter such an ability. This ability should be removed from his profile.

Disagree. Mash fought them almost nonstop and was required to surpass them one by one to progress to next level, and iirc he did it more than 50 times within 3 days of training. But i do agree with removing the first 2 justifications.

Limited Regeneration | I think this ability is alright, though I am in disagreement with it, the reasoning should be changed around. Clenching your muscles, something he has to show proof of, to stop bleeding isn’t regenerative powers. Mash is never stated to have had his spine “pierced” given the angle this could have easily missed his spine or anything. His shirt doesn’t even have a hole in it. It appears to be one of Mash many instances of tricking his opponents into believing they’ve done one thing despite it not being the case.

It's a bit weird, but i do feel like he should have some baseline regeneration just because ot the type of damage he can survive without medical help alone. Agree with justification changes though.

Instinctive Reactions | This ability should be limited, as he only showcased such when his creampuffs were being taken away from him or when he is sleeping, which even then his body only preformed certain acts (such as exercise), is such a thing instinctive Reactions

Limited instinctive reactions should be fine in this case... i think

Density Manipulation | Mash has never showcased the ability to change the density of his own body. The justification on his profile claims such but the scan provided doesn’t state this. The scan states that Mash’s body naturally compresses his muscles (a real life phenomenon) to allow him to be so strong without having a large physique. This also allows him to to attack with great force as his muscles act like a compressed spring (real life phenomenon). Mash doesn’t have control over his body’s density, this ability should be removed.

This power i feel could be chalked up to good body control, i guess. but i don't really mind how it is now. Neutral

Stealth Mastery | Mash has never shown the ability to conceal his own presence not has he been shown to be aware of his own “aura”. The people on his profile where shown to be caught off guard or haven’t showcased the ability to see this pressure given off by Mash. This ability should be removed.

He can often do stuff like getting behind people or surprising them if given a chance, but most examples i can think of can be credited to his speed. Agree for now.

Statistic Amplification | Mash is constantly holding back, naming an attack (something he does in series to trick people into thinking he has magic) and doing an impressive feat is simply done by him using more power than usual. Saitama having a casual punch and then a serious punch isn’t statistic amplification for that same reason. This ability should be removed.

Jin Mori has it for stuff like his Taekwondo because the technique explicitely boosts the amount of power he can output. Same thing with Soru from One Piece and other similar techniques. Things like Barista Knuckles and Big Bang Dash should still count as damage boost and statistic amplification for speed respectively

Limited Perception Manipulation | Mash himself cannot cause hallucinations. Him choking someone and human biology kicking In doesn’t indicate he has some supernatural ability capable of doing such. It’s like saying stabbing someone and them dying from shock is death manipulation.

I always felt like that one scene were the dude started hallucinating was played for comedy more than anything else, and i also get your argument, but feels like such a minor thing i'm gonna be neutral about getting it removed.

Analytic Prediction | The first part is fine, but the part about him reacting to FTE attacks is false, not once does it state ,in series, that Doom was FTE to Mash, reacting to an FTE attack point blank range is literally impossible with Analytic Prediction, this would be a showcasing of baseline speed.

I feel like that one feat where he bats a dude's spheres (no innuendo here) all over the place and then they start ricocheting of eachother until they are fully removed from the room in a single swing could be a good replacement to showcase this, since he would need to calculate the perfect trajectory route in his mind within moments. Also, reacting to a FTE is kinda common in fiction since Authors overestimate the shit out of it. Half Agree.

Limited Attack Reflection

Agree

Gravity Manipulation | Mash only resisted this by being physically strong. It’s a rule on the literal ability that resisting gravity attacks via LS doesn’t warrant this ability.

Increasing one's gravity wouldn't just make them heavier. it would also make it harder for blood to flow upwards and apply a great stress upon the heart, it would be much harder to lift 10kg under 10x gravity than lifting 100kg under normal gravity. But if the wiki won't consider it a resistance if a character has better LS i agree.

Fear Manipulation | Walenburg has never showcased being capable of passively doing this, nor do we know if this is caused by his aura. Such is never stated. So Mash standing next to him isn’t an indication of resistance. Walenburg himself even implies that this was a spell used on an opponent. “Oh if that scares you” he himself acknowledges that he is aware of what he just did to the underling. Showing someone a vision of death is different than them having hallucinations out of sheer fear. Again, this isn’t shown to be passive. This resistance should be removed.

Neutral on this one

Curse and Mind Manipulation | Mash is never stated to have the most “powerful mental fortitude in the verse” and being capable of overcoming most spells in the world via being physically strong has no correlation with resisting mental or supernatural attacks. This would only be in reference to overcoming physical magic with even higher physical output. Mash shouldn’t be granted this resistance due to an entirety different character breaking free from this ability. It’s baseless and downright incorrect. He associates the darkness mind control with corruption due to it controlling an entire civilization… that’s just mind control, and mash doesn’t even resist this. The magic has different properties and giving magma the ability to absorb mass doesn’t indicate that anything it does will share this ability, this is baseless

Agree. Most of the time mental fortitude alone can break out of an ability it's treated as more of a weakness to the ability than strength to the character.

Empathic Manipulation | This spell is stated to only work when the defender has some feelings towards her, it’s stated that Mash doesn’t have any feelings towards her, this isn’t an resistance.

Agree

Soul Manipulation | Mash being physically strong doesn’t depict that he has the same resistances as other people. The reasoning is just faulty and “soul-splitting pain!” Is not soul manipulation, it’s clearly an exaggeration used to indicate the level of pain the monsters would inflict from their strikes. You don’t resist soul manipulation from being physically strong.

Agree. It's like if a character got resistance to biological manipulation due to reading a "jaw-dropping book" and their jaw remained on their face.

Body Puppetry

Iirc it wasn't as simple as that, but i don't remember context for the fight so i will skip it for now.

Attack Reflection | It’s directly stated this attack reflection was done by being physically superior to a weaker spell. This isn’t attack reflection and fighting someone who hasn’t even been shown to have this ability isn’t resistance to attack reflection.

Agree

Acid Manipulation | FRA, he doesn’t scale to someone’s else resistan

Agree

 

[AnAverageUsername]

We don’t know anything about the knights, all we know is that they’re barely stronger than mash and not even mash consider them too powerful. The entire point was for mash to train himself to overcome unknown/unforeseen confrontations hence invisible arrows.

That does make sense I guess

If we can’t quantify how much stronger than mash they are we cannot say he’s developing faster than normal to beat these guys, if it’s never been established they’re so physically strong mash can’t best them.

I still say that they would have to have some strength over Mash for him to reach a new level, as some of the Knights are shown to be physical fighters. It's also said that Meliadoul took Mash's own cellular data, so why would she need that if she wasn't going to at least place these Knights against Mash to have him grow stronger?

Same as above, mash unique fighting style and analytical abilities would allow this to be the case, nothing implies his body is developing unnaturally.

Ok

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Fair, on the specific scan, but i'm pretty sure UPM Mash should have it due to what he did against Domina's thirdth using water buckets.

Yeah I noted that his UPM should possess this ability.

Agree for now, Mash does have a lot of skill feats that are borderline looney tunes shit, but that's kinda moot for this specific ability.

The reasoning just doesn’t match the scans presented, no where does it state he can attack with the same level of power even from a graze. Like a grazing someone would have the same impact as a direct punch.

Disagree. Mash fought them almost nonstop and was required to surpass them one by one to progress to next level, and iirc he did it more than 50 times within 3 days of training. But i do agree with removing the first 2 justifications.

I say this because we can’t quite quantify how much stronger these guys were. Without quantifying this difference or any scans showcasing a clear difference in power, he can beat every single last one of them by outsmarting or just being a better fighter.
It should be noted that not even mash considered the first one a threat, despite it being stronger than him.

Limited instinctive reactions should be fine in this case... i think

Possibly, though it should be listed this only applies during specific circumstances.

This power i feel could be chalked up to good body control, i guess. but i don't really mind how it is now. Neutral

By the definition of the power, Mash shouldn’t have access to it. The profile states he can do this manually to help against piercing attacks, yet the scans represented doesn’t state or show this. I think you should think about it again.

Jin Mori has it for stuff like his Taekwondo because the technique explicitely boosts the amount of power he can output. Same thing with Soru from One Piece and other similar techniques. Things like Barista Knuckles and Big Bang Dash should still count as damage boost and statistic amplification for speed respectively

But this isnt the case for mash. There’s nothing stating it’s a speed amp or power amp, like saitama he only names his attacks to appear cool or to pretend as if he has magic. It’s a common trope to name attacks in fighting series such as this. Mash has no supernatural means to increase his statistics far above what he’s normally capable of, he simply uses more power than he is using at the moment.

I feel like that one feat where he bats a dude's spheres (no innuendo here) all over the place and then they start ricocheting of eachother until they are fully removed from the room in a single swing could be a good replacement to showcase this, since he would need to calculate the perfect trajectory route in his mind within moments. Also, reacting to a FTE is kinda common in fiction since Authors overestimate the shit out of it. Half Agree.

I can agree with this.

Iirc it wasn't as simple as that, but i don't remember context for the fight so i will skip it for now.

If possible you should reread the fight asap. We physically see this as Mash pushes against it and breaks all of his fingers which are attached to the strings. This isn’t a case of supernaturally resisting someone controlling his body, but him overpowering his physical grasp over him.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I still say that they would have to have some strength over Mash for him to reach a new level, as some of the Knights are shown to be physical fighters. It's also said that Meliadoul took Mash's own cellular data, so why would she need that if she wasn't going to at least place these Knights against Mash to have him grow stronger?

We don’t see anything out of the knights. We see an archer shoot invisible arrows and we see mash defeat another one. That’s it. These trials were made to push Mash into finding new methods of defeating superior opponents. Making him think outside of overpower with superior strength.

Mash considers these guys, who are stronger than him, as a joke.

Casually reacting to his attacks at point blank range and raising his hand to stop one that was mere centimeters away from his face. Even commenting on it saying “hmph” as if it was a joke.
It’s clear that the real challenge comes from mash being incapable of noticing the invisible arrow, making the trainer say “if this is all it takes to throw you off then I’m afraid you’ll never last” which is directly referring to Mash’s ability to fight against the unknown.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

We don’t see anything out of the knights. We see an archer shoot invisible arrows and we see mash defeat another one. That’s it. These trials were made to push Mash into finding new methods of defeating superior opponents. Making him think outside of overpower with superior strength.

While I do agree that the Knights do have attacks and hax for Mash to overcome via skill, I still do think that the Knights are also made to be superior to Mash in power. The next 2 knights we see in full after the arrow knight are pure physical fighters with no tricks, which shows that the knights have to have some physical superiority over Mash. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but it's just how I see the situation, and I can't find the right words at the moment.

Mash considers these guys, who are stronger than him, as a joke.

I actually think Mash said that in reaction of having Meliadoul send these Knights, not as if they were jokes.

Casually reacting to his attacks at point blank range and raising his hand to stop one that was mere centimeters away from his face. Even commenting on it saying “hmph” as if it was a joke.

Using the "hmph" as evidence for Mash treating them like jokes doesn't site right, as it's also used as emphasis for when Mash is doing something physically taxing, like a rapid flurry of punches

It’s clear that the real challenge comes from mash being incapable of noticing the invisible arrow, making the trainer say “if this is all it takes to throw you off then I’m afraid you’ll never last” which is directly referring to Mash’s ability to fight against the unknown.

Still whether we agree if the Knights are physically superior by a wide margin or are only slightly ahead of Mash, doesn't the fact that Mash was able to take out ten in 4 days while it would take the average person a month, and then in the next chapter Meliadoul states that Mash accomplished the training in 10 days while for others it would take a year, constitute for something?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I’ve went back and read the chapter, I agree this ability should stay, but due to it’s lack of showings we can’t entirely say it’s viable in battle.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I’ve went back and read the chapter, I agree this ability should stay, but due to it’s lack of showings we can’t entirely say it’s viable in battle.

Yeah, it may not be viable in battle, only shown in training

 

[Epiccheev]

I guess we just wait for Life_of_King and some mod to appear now

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I adjusted the sandbox.

sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[WrongIdea21]

Stealth Mastery | Mash has never shown the ability to conceal his own presence not has he been shown to be aware of his own “aura”. The people on his profile where shown to be caught off guard or haven’t showcased the ability to see this pressure given off by Mash. This ability should be removed.

Disaggre.
Mash shown to be undetected by someone who can feel an aura, here.. look.

Statistic Amplification | Mash is constantly holding back, naming an attack (something he does in series to trick people into thinking he has magic) and doing an impressive feat is simply done by him using more power than usual. Saitama having a casual punch and then a serious punch isn’t statistic amplification for that same reason. This ability should be removed.

Didn't he has stats amp from UPM?

Analytic Prediction | The first part is fine, but the part about him reacting to FTE attacks is false, not once does it state ,in series, that Doom was FTE to Mash, reacting to an FTE attack point blank range is literally impossible with Analytic Prediction, this would be a showcasing of baseline speed.

Mash stated to read Doom's movement.

Afterimage Creation | The scan used as evidence only shows multiple silhouette of mash playing soccer. These aren’t stated to afterimages, it is simply an artistic impression to show case multiple movements in a single panel. Tricking people into thinking your clothes are you isn’t afterimage creation. This ability should be removed.

Bruh

Reactive Evolution | The justification doesn’t work, as it’s never stated Mash couldn’t resist this ability nor is it confirmed that he can naturally adapt to abilities like this. Mash is constantly holding back and all this is showing is mash superiority to Lance. This should be removed.

He can adapted to Gravity in base after get overwhelmed before.

Gravity Manipulation | Mash only resisted this by being physically strong. It’s a rule on the literal ability that resisting gravity attacks via LS doesn’t warrant this ability

He can resisting Gravity wich is increase its force by time.

Empathic Manipulation | This spell is stated to only work when the defender has some feelings towards her, it’s stated that Mash doesn’t have any feelings towards her, this isn’t an resistance.

Her ability to make Mans fall in love to hers beauty, even after she use her magic it still doesnt works.

I'll recheck the rest soon.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Disaggre.
Mash shown to be undetected by someone who can feel an aura, here.. look.

This is a magical aura, not sheer pressure given off by Mash. This isn’t the same as one character is shown to possess the ability to sense magical aura, and another is shoe capable of sensing sheer pressure given off by Mash.

Didn't he has stats amp from UPM?

That isn’t Stat. Amp., he’s simply removing weights from his body allowing him to use more of his physical strength. He’s simply no longer holding back.

Mash stated to read Doom's movement.

I never disagreed with this, I disagree with the belief that Doom was FTE to Mash and Mash can react to FTE attacks “point blank range.” The reasoning should be changed.

Bruh

This is only UPM, I agreed UPM should have this ability, base Mash shouldn’t possess this.

He can adapted to Gravity in base after get overwhelmed before.

You clearly misinterpreted the scans or haven’t read the manga chapter in a while. Mash isn’t on the ground because he can’t handle the gravity, he’s on the ground because he’s frustrated in being incapable of catching the tail. As stated before, Mash is never stated to be incapable of resisting this ability, Mash is constantly holding back and uses as much power as necessary for a certain scene.

He can resisting Gravity wich is increase its force by time.

When is it stated that Mash is doing this by supernatural means? Mash is resisting this by being physically stronger than the gravity.

Her ability to make Mans fall in love to hers beauty, even after she use her magic it still doesnt works.

She directly states this only works when they have feelings directed towards her. She even states Mash doesn’t have any feelings directed towards her which is why it doesn’t work. Mash doesn’t resist anything.

 

[WrongIdea21]

This is a magical aura, not sheer pressure given off by Mash. This isn’t the same as one character is shown to possess the ability to sense magical aura, and another is shoe capable of sensing sheer pressure given off by Mash.

That isn’t Stat. Amp., he’s simply removing weights from his body allowing him to use more of his physical strength. He’s simply no longer holding back.

I never disagreed with this, I disagree with the belief that Doom was FTE to Mash and Mash can react to FTE attacks “point blank range.” The reasoning should be changed.

This is only UPM, I agreed UPM should have this ability, base Mash shouldn’t possess this.

You clearly misinterpreted the scans or haven’t read the manga chapter in a while. Mash isn’t on the ground because he can’t handle the gravity, he’s on the ground because he’s frustrated in being incapable of catching the tail. As stated before, Mash is never stated to be incapable of resisting this ability, Mash is constantly holding back and uses as much power as necessary for a certain scene.

When is it stated that Mash is doing this by supernatural means? Mash is resisting this by being physically stronger than the gravity.

She directly states this only works when they have feelings directed towards her. She even states Mash doesn’t have any feelings directed towards her which is why it doesn’t work. Mash doesn’t resist anything.

Okay that's should works then.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

After seeing some arguments and counter-arguments on the powers and abilities part, I agree with the OP.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Alright I've applied the changes, this can be closed right?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I will do so yes.