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Mash Burnedead and the Leader of the Straw Hat Pirates (Mash Burnedead vs Monkey D. Luffy)

I was in favor of icon because monkey had shown this video, and then I doubted very much whether a arm triangle could stop Luffy

But from what other OP supporters are saying and the scan that Kachon showed the video seems to be inconsistent (or is simply a gag moment)

I will vote for Mash again
 
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joshpiece said:
No monkey that’s not how it works.

an arm triangle cuts off the blood flow it would render Luffy unconscious. A rear naked choke would be worse especially with with Mash LS.
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No it wouldn't....

The blood won't get cut off if he doesn't rap everything around luffy's neck

I'll go luffy FRA as I don't see mash catching luffy with that and luffy can instantly get out of bad situations...
Can think of effective ways to get himself out of sticky situations and make good use of it by attacking back
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luffy's instincts and luck will help as well

Not only that but luffy will grow in strength and speed faster, Making him overcome Mash and defeating him easier
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Luck just helps him survive, but not in fights. Tempest himself agreed

Anyway, this is finalized.
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Because it's much harder to tell in fights.... Also that literally doesn't make sense, you are limiting luffy's luck based on how it happened
 
I've been told that this thread is done, so closing it now.
 
All

Mash doesn't change in terms of skill or P&A throughout the series, since his only training is bodybuilding

If I am not mistaken this has already been mentioned

This is supported by him training with his father's self-defense book since mash was a baby. Everything he does is based on this book, but in exaggerated way (This is even a joke in the manga)
 
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joshpiece said:
It seems the “hanging” or chokeholds are quite common BJJ moves that happen irl.

If mash grabs Luffy with his LS and gets to an arm triangle or rear naked choke the fight is over. There’s no possible way Luffy is getting out of any of those moves especially since he is very outmatched in LS (that is literally required to get out of a rear naked choke since you have to pry the top hand off to decrease the pressure applied)

change my vote to neutral this is interesting now 🤔
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We're gonna pretend Luffy isn't rubber and those holds are literally doing NOTHING to him? All he has to do is use a Fusen and get Mash off via body expansion. Or use Octopus and go practically nigh-liquidy to escape that hold, or.. Literally just stretch any body part and keep attacking anyway. We saw Luffy willingly stretching his neck in fishman island without getting attacked or doing an attack (when he wrapped around Nami), what's stopping him from doing exactly that with any other body part and still fighting that way?

And again- > rubber.
Using submission holds against a man made of rubber INSIDE AND OUT isn't working in your favor. At some point Mash himself would realize Luffy isn't being effected by it and give up trying them.
 
Luffy expands by breathing air, both air and blood is stopped when in Mash's hold. Wrapping his neck around something doesn't equal closing off his own windpipe.

Luffy has been shown to be chocked before. And once his windpipe and arteries are both closed, he can't breath and blood won't flow. All he has to do is apply enough pressure to close them. Which he can easily do with his higher lifting strength. Luffy cannot escape his hold, since he lacks the lifting strength to break his grasp.

A rubber tube can still be squeezed closed, and Mash can do the same to Luffy's neck.

Sure, with his rubber body he could be capable of hitting Mash while in a hold. But hitting Mash off of him will take longer than him being knocked out from no blood flowing into his brain. Which takes less than a second to happen.
 
SnookB said:
We're gonna pretend Luffy isn't rubber and those holds are literally doing NOTHING to him? All he has to do is use a Fusen and get Mash off via body expansion. Or use Octopus and go practically nigh-liquidy to escape that hold, or.. Literally just stretch any body part and keep attacking anyway. We saw Luffy willingly stretching his neck in fishman island without getting attacked or doing an attack (when he wrapped around Nami), what's stopping him from doing exactly that with any other body part and still fighting that way?

And again- > rubber.
Using submission holds against a man made of rubber INSIDE AND OUT isn't working in your favor. At some point Mash himself would realize Luffy isn't being effected by it and give up trying them.
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Sorry but no this is complete and utter BS

Mash with his LS is closing all his blood arteries not allowing blood to flow to his brain. Rubber can still be pressed together. Those chokes + Mash’s LS is more than enough to choke out Luffy.

Shit Luffy can even breathe in this scenario and he’ll still be rendered unconscious. That’s bc these chokes are so greatly designed to shut off the blood vessels to the brain not allowing your brain to get oxygen. Hence the reason you can hold your breath for a min straight and be fine but let a BJJ practitioner get you in one of these chokes and you won’t last nearly as long.
 
joshpiece said:
Sorry but no this is complete and utter BS

Mash with his LS is closing all his blood arteries not allowing blood to flow to his brain. Rubber can still be pressed together. Those chokes + Mash’s LS is more than enough to choke out Luffy.

Shit Luffy can even breathe in this scenario and he’ll still be rendered unconscious. That’s bc these chokes are so greatly designed to shut off the blood vessels to the brain not allowing your brain to get oxygen. Hence the reason you can hold your breath for a min straight and be fine but let a BJJ practitioner get you in one of these chokes and you won’t last nearly as long.
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You are suffocating a man who is RUBBER. His windpipes are rubber, his arteries are rubber.
I don't know, it just sounds strange to say you can "choke" a man that's entirely made of rubber. Their windpipe would just shrink but has no reason to be effected. Maybe that's just me. If he can withstand being flattened between buildings and still talk, there's no reason he should get choked out. Beating him via trapping him under heavier things than he can handle was far more believable than choking a guy who's rubber down to the bones.

The reasons for Mash winning are weak because there's no way he can "hurt" Luffy.
The reasons for Luffy winning are equally as weak, considering Mash has the dura and LS advantage. I'mma go with neutral on this.
 
Grace doesn't restart unless someone removed their vote for the winning person, or the losing person gets more votes.

So if 7 becomes 6, or if the current 4 Luffy votes jump to 7 votes.

For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes. Some examples:
Luffy being flatten is seen as mostly a gag, since he's been choked before. And once again, pure logic my man. And besides, being flatted doesn't mean his windpipe and arteries have been closed. Since Luffy can still talk or even breath in to inflate himself in some cases. But unless you don't understand, it is fully possible to squeeze a rubber pipe close, so tightly that liquid or air cannot travel through them.

Luffy has no resistance to being squeezed, just that any flatten time means his arteries were not squeezed shut. Because someone who appears to be flatten, can still have open windpipes and arteries (Narrow but not closed), since they've been flatten and spread out. But Mash's advantage in Lifting Strength will let him squeeze with such force that he'd close up any of the arteries in his neck.
 
To grab Luffy's neck, Mash would need to: Be able to get close and accurately hit the neck of someone who can freely move it; sacrificing his hands, and consequently, his custody. Nothing would make Mash kill Luffy instantly due to his rubbery physiology that makes him survive body pressure attacks; this would grant Luffy the opportunity to hit any part of Mash's body with any attack in his arsenal at point blank range, causing him to physically react to pain, and release him (unless Mash has a high tolerance for pain and manages to continue choking Luffy regardless).

This proposition pre-assumes that Luffy is a complete idiot and stupid in terms of analytical combat. Since in the same way that Mash would notice that Luffy is resistant to his blows, Luffy would also notice that Mash would have an advantage in LS, assuming long or mid distance. If Mash knew about Luffy's characteristics, and went out of his way to try to grab him as quickly as possible, instead of trying to punch him or perform any other blow (i.e. to prevent Luffy from adapting to his movements), I say that I wouldn't disregard that Luffy could be caught easily. ;but since it won't happen, there's no place for someone who equals Roronoa Zoro's skills to be defeated in such a banal and simple way.
 
Ryuga21 said:
To grab Luffy's neck, Mash would need to: Be able to get close and accurately hit the neck of someone who can freely move it; sacrificing his hands, and consequently, his custody. Nothing would make Mash kill Luffy instantly due to his rubbery physiology that makes him survive body pressure attacks; this would grant Luffy the opportunity to hit any part of Mash's body with any attack in his arsenal at point blank range, causing him to physically react to pain, and release him (unless Mash has a high tolerance for pain and manages to continue choking Luffy regardless).

This proposition pre-assumes that Luffy is a complete idiot and stupid in terms of analytical combat. Since in the same way that Mash would notice that Luffy is resistant to his blows, Luffy would also notice that Mash would have an advantage in LS, assuming long or mid distance. If Mash knew about Luffy's characteristics, and went out of his way to try to grab him as quickly as possible, instead of trying to punch him or perform any other blow (i.e. to prevent Luffy from adapting to his movements), I say that I wouldn't disregard that Luffy could be caught easily. ;but since it won't happen, there's no place for someone who equals Roronoa Zoro's skills to be defeated in such a banal and simple way.
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Mash has very great pain tolerance. Dude kept on moving even when getting numerous deep cuts at high speeds, and even after the fight, he still kept on moving as if nothing had happened.
 
Ryuga21 said:
To grab Luffy's neck, Mash would need to: Be able to get close and accurately hit the neck of someone who can freely move it; sacrificing his hands, and consequently, his custody. Nothing would make Mash kill Luffy instantly due to his rubbery physiology that makes him survive body pressure attacks; this would grant Luffy the opportunity to hit any part of Mash's body with any attack in his arsenal at point blank range, causing him to physically react to pain, and release him
Click to expand...
You underestimate Mash's skill. He is able to catch characters more than a thousand times his speed while having cuts all over his body and in slow motion. Mash can catch someone completely faster and stronger than him. Literally it is mentioned that the same technique will not work for long against Mash because he will almost immediately adapt to the opponent's style, even if in a few seconds he was almost killed by the same attack. And honestly Mash has dealt with far more variable techniques than anything Luffy has in his arsenal
Ryuga21 said:
unless Mash has a high tolerance for pain and manages to continue choking Luffy regardless
Click to expand...
He has had several liters of blood drawn from his body after being cut numerous times by Abyss, creating several pools of blood.

Mash had his chest pierced by a huge sword, hitting several key parts of his body and had also several parts of his body crushed.

In the same battle he was cut in practically every part of his body, including his neck, and even so Mash managed to cause a vast destruction in the fight corridor and defeat his opponent with an immense combo of techniques.

After the battle aginst Abyss he was able to easily stop the attacks of Rayne who was using 10% of his magic power without showing any discomfort from the damage.

Mash is considered to have immense mental fortitude and superhuman toughness, which makes him superior to Dot, who managed to fighter and not get too uncomfortable with six broken ribs, a fractured skull, compoud fractures up and down his arms and legs, blood blisters and damage to multiple organ system

In the recent chapter he lost his backbone and kept fighting

Is that enough?
Ryuga21 said:
This proposition pre-assumes that Luffy is a complete idiot and stupid in terms of analytical combat.
Click to expand...
It is not simple, at some point Luffy will need to attack even if it is from a distance, at which point Mash grabs him. Even if he doesn't catch it the first time (which I doubt, since Mash has already casually reflected something more than 7 times faster than him), he will simply adapt to the style of the attack
 
🤦🏽‍♂️
SnookB said:
You are suffocating a man who is RUBBER. His windpipes are rubber, his arteries are rubber.
I don't know, it just sounds strange to say you can "choke" a man that's entirely made of rubber. Their windpipe would just shrink but has no reason to be effected. Maybe that's just me. If he can withstand being flattened between buildings and still talk, there's no reason he should get choked out. Beating him via trapping him under heavier things than he can handle was far more believable than choking a guy who's rubber down to the bones.

The reasons for Mash winning are weak because there's no way he can "hurt" Luffy.
The reasons for Luffy winning are equally as weak, considering Mash has the dura and LS advantage. I'mma go with neutral on this.
Click to expand...
Wind pipes don’t matter literally if you read my comment fully.

Luffys blood vessels can get squeezed… how making them rubber makes any difference is beyond me. When has Luffy shown to shrink his blood vessels… like that is even a property of rubber

If luffy hits mash while he’s choking him, it’s not doing anything he needs to break his grip and he can’t with mash LS. unless you can prove Luffy will 1-shot mash in the mere seconds before he is rendered unconscious Mash wins this.
 
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