Mash Burnedead and the Devil Host's Rematch (Mash vs Asta)

[AnAverageUsername]

Since Mash has a High 6-C statistic now, maybe this will finally be fair for Asta. Asta was magic less yet gained Anti-Magic while Mash stays magic less.

Rules
•Speed is equal
•Mash can't enter UPM
•Asta can't enter any higher forms

Mash is High 6-C [121 Gigatons]

Asta is in his Beggining of Timeskip key at High 6-C+ [650 Gigatons]

Mash Burnedead: 8 (Kachon123, LIFE_OF_KING, Arkenis, Makai64100, Epiccheev, AnAverageUsername, Lynieryz, WrongIdea21)

Asta: 7 (Arnoldstone18, Testarossa, Panache_x, Epsilon_R, 45Saef, Lokolokurah, Nightshade)

Incon: 4 (Azevedo128, Chianli, Kazuma_Kuwabara, Superstar)

 

[AnAverageUsername]

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[Arnoldstone18]

Asta is approximately 5.4x stronger, higher with piercing damage. Guess I’ll start with that…

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Asta is approximately 5.4x stronger, higher with piercing damage. Guess I’ll start with that…

Yeah, Asta is stronger, but the reason why previous matches turned out to be stomps in Mash's favor is because Mash was too skilled as well as them being even. So if Asta is more powerful here, then the skill from Mash will balance it out.

Mash's skill is very extraordinary, as when he fought Doom, who was FTE to Mash at that point, Mash could still dodge due to his analytical prediction, dodging multiple strikes till he found an opening to hit him. And if Asta does end up stabbing Mash, that's going to be bad for Asta, since Mash's control over his own muscles is so extreme that he can hold said sword in place to continue beating on his opponent. Same thing happened in his fight against Abyss, where it also showcases his extreme pain resilience, as he was perfectly fine even though he was receiving numerous amounts of deep slashes that were causing his blood to spray out. Plus, Mash's LS is monstrous, so if Mash gets a hold around Asta's neck, its game over at that point.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah I’m definitely reading Mashle before responding here.

 

[Azevedo128]

Yeah, Asta is stronger, but the reason why previous matches turned out to be stomps in Mash's favor is because Mash was too skilled as well as them being even. So if Asta is more powerful here, then the skill from Mash will balance it out.

Mash's skill is very extraordinary, as when he fought Doom, who was FTE to Mash at that point, Mash could still dodge due to his analytical prediction, dodging multiple strikes till he found an opening to hit him. And if Asta does end up stabbing Mash, that's going to be bad for Asta, since Mash's control over his own muscles is so extreme that he can hold said sword in place to continue beating on his opponent. Same thing happened in his fight against Abyss, where it also showcases his extreme pain resilience, as he was perfectly fine even though he was receiving numerous amounts of deep slashes that were causing his blood to spray out. Plus, Mash's LS is monstrous, so if Mash gets a hold around Asta's neck, its game over at that point.

Asta usually goes for cuts so the muscle thing is not useful.

Asta too has precog and is literally able to predict where someone is going to teleport before they do it.

Also Asta can fly with the Demon Slayer and has ranged attacks.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mash can make his muscles so dense that an axe attack becomes equivalent to a hammer attack

Mash is able to predict the momentum of an opponent more than 6000 times his speed after a few seconds, besides other good feats

Mash can as well fly

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Asta usually goes for cuts so the muscle thing is not useful.

Mash was once hit with an axe over and over yet was not effected afterwards. I don't know if this would be an equivalent, but eh.

Asta too has precog and is literally able to predict where someone is going to teleport before they do it.

Mash, when faced against a Railgun that could fire off projectiles that go at speeds of Mach7/8 was able to intercept it on his first try and improve at batting it away after a short moment. Mash's instincts are also so good that they're comparable to a wild beat, and once he's seen an attack once or twice, he just gets better at avoiding and countering it. He can also sense imminent death coming so there's also that.

Also Asta can fly with the Demon Slayer and has ranged attacks.

Useless against Mash, as he can kick his legs so fast that he ends up flying, and can maneuver around in the air while doing this. Mash also has ranged options of his own, as if he ends up using his Iron Wand and molds it into a tennis racket, baseball bat or pool stick, he will end up using any sort of item, whether it be rubble or even the enemies own attack, and swat it right back at them.

 

[Azevedo128]

1-Mash was once hit with an axe over and over yet was not effected afterwards. I don't know if this would be an equivalent, but eh.

2-Mash, when faced against a Railgun that could fire off projectiles that go at speeds of Mach7/8 was able to intercept it on his first try and improve at batting it away after a short moment. Mash's instincts are also so good that they're comparable to a wild beat, and once he's seen an attack once or twice, he just gets better at avoiding and countering it. He can also sense imminent death coming so there's also that.

3-Useless against Mash, as he can kick his legs so fast that he ends up flying, and can maneuver around in the air while doing this. Mash also has ranged options of his own, as if he ends up using his Iron Wand and molds it into a tennis racket, baseball bat or pool stick, he will end up using any sort of item, whether it be rubble or even the enemies own attack, and swat it right back at them.

1- That's a durability feat so it's irrelevant against someone with far more fire power

2-That's a speed feat for him so it's irrelevant against someone as fast also a much less experienced Asta could do all of that too.

3-Anti Magic is pure energy so I don't think it can be bounced back, Mash's AP is much lower so his attacks will deal very little damage to Asta and that is if they even are able to hit him which is not likely.

Another thing I'd like to add is that since Asta's AP is far higher than Mash it does not matter if he can react to Asta's attacks since he would just break/lose his arm trying to block Asta.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

1- That's a durability feat so it's irrelevant against someone with far more fire power

You can say that, but still, Mash is very tanky, and can take a multitude of slices even if they're deep

2-That's a speed feat for him so it's irrelevant against someone as fast also a much less experienced Asta could do all of that too.

How is it irrelevant? He was dodging someone who was massively FTE to himself by using his sheer analytical prediction. You can't brush it off as a speed feat, because it was stated that Doom was already faster than Mash, so against someone who's at an equal speed to him, Mash should be able to pull off the same stunts.

3-Anti Magic is pure energy so I don't think it can be bounced back, Mash's AP is much lower so his attacks will deal very little damage to Asta and that is if they even are able to hit him which is not likely.

I'm not saying Mash will only try to knock back Asta's attacks, I'm saying he'll use anything that's viable. This is the same dude that broke the ground knowing it would limit his opponents movement, and used Tarter Sauce to cover someone's fingers so that they couldn't snap them. And let's not forget Mash has his own amps in the form of his Muscle Magic, where as shown in his fight against Abyss, he used Hurricane Rush and began to casually beat down Abyss. There's also Big Bang Dash, where it provides a speed amp to where he can blitz those who could react to him before.

Another thing I'd like to add is that since Asta's AP is far higher than Mash it does not matter if he can react to Asta's attacks since he would just break/lose his arm trying to block Asta.

A broken bone is nothing to Mash, the same man who tanked getting a whole trident shoved through his back, yet walked it off a few moments later. And plus, that's assuming Mash will block, when he can reasonably dodge his opponents attacks like he did against Cell War and Carpaccio in their individual fights.

 

[Azevedo128]

You can say that, but still, Mash is very tanky, and can take a multitude of slices even if they're deep

1-How is it irrelevant? He was dodging someone who was massively FTE to himself by using his sheer analytical prediction. You can't brush it off as a speed feat, because it was stated that Doom was already faster than Mash, so against someone who's at an equal speed to him, Mash should be able to pull off the same stunts.

2-I'm not saying Mash will only try to knock back Asta's attacks, I'm saying he'll use anything that's viable. This is the same dude that broke the ground knowing it would limit his opponents movement, and used Tarter Sauce to cover someone's fingers so that they couldn't snap them. And let's not forget Mash has his own amps in the form of his Muscle Magic, where as shown in his fight against Abyss, he used Hurricane Rush and began to casually beat down Abyss. There's also Big Bang Dash, where it provides a speed amp to where he can blitz those who could react to him before.

3-A broken bone is nothing to Mash, the same man who tanked getting a whole trident shoved through his back, yet walked it off a few moments later. And plus, that's assuming Mash will block, when he can reasonably dodge his opponents attacks like he did against Cell War and Carpaccio in their individual fights.

1- Asta can too do that and also resists analytical prediction since he assimilated Kiato's sword style. Also you didn't explain that it was a FTE move that Mash reacted to.

2- Asta can predict Mash's moves also RPL goes brrrrrr

3-A broken limb may not the worst thing but an amputated limb surely is bad news.

Another question, is this fight to the death or just KO'ing is enough? If it is to the death then Asta could one shot by hitting vital organs even though he doesn't have the AP to normally normally one shot Mash.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Mash has a higher LS and can also disarm Asta with his superior Skill given the opportunity and while Asta grows stronger, Mash would become more skillful because when he sees attacks, the next time it would be easier to him to react

So, Asta surpassing his limits and landing a good attack= his win

Mash adapting to Asta and learning to counter his moveset= his win

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

mash has fought non-stop against knights that are considered impossible to defeat for hours and days, until he reaches a point where he evolves and defeats this same knight with one attack

 

[AnAverageUsername]

1- Asta can too do that and also resists analytical prediction since he assimilated Kiato's sword style. Also you didn't explain that it was a FTE move that Mash reacted to.

Here is Mash using his Analytical Prediction to avoid these attacks from Doom, and then later in the fight, Doom becomes twice as fast as before, yet Mash still ends up using his Analytical Prediction to dodge.

2- Asta can predict Mash's moves also RPL goes brrrrrr

So both can predict eachother? Doesn't mean it'll change much, only make the fight closer. And RPL? Mash has that in spades, as he had to endure training for around a month fighting magical armors that were one level above him, said to be unbeatable in his current condition, meaning Mash had to adapt to survive. And he already adapted 3 or so levels in just a week. Oh, and lets not ignore the fact that Mash's stamina is so absurd that he can fight for a month straight under conditions that were likely to kill him.

3-A broken limb may not the worst thing but an amputated limb surely is bad news.

An amputated limb that Mash will know to avoid because he can sense how strong an opponent is from pure instinct.

Another question, is this fight to the death or just KO'ing is enough? If it is to the death then Asta could one shot by hitting vital organs even though he doesn't have the AP to normally normally one shot Mash.

Doesn't matter in my honest opinion, that rule is set to SBA, so whatever standard for that is covered. And still, if Asta tries to go for a killing blow, Mash will sense it and know to back away.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Mash has a higher LS and can also disarm Asta with his superior Skill given the opportunity and while Asta grows stronger, Mash would become more skillful because when he sees attacks, the next time it would be easier to him to react

So, Asta surpassing his limits and landing a good attack= his win

Mash adapting to Asta and learning to counter his moveset= his win

So you're vote if you have one?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

So you're vote if you have one?

I am waiting to read others opinions

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Still reading the manga, interesting so far.

 

[Azevedo128]

1-Here is Mash using his Analytical Prediction to avoid these attacks from Doom, and then later in the fight, Doom becomes twice as fast as before, yet Mash still ends up using his Analytical Prediction to dodge.

2-So both can predict eachother? Doesn't mean it'll change much, only make the fight closer. And RPL? Mash has that in spades, as he had to endure training for around a month fighting magical armors that were one level above him, said to be unbeatable in his current condition, meaning Mash had to adapt to survive. And he already adapted 3 or so levels in just a week. Oh, and lets not ignore the fact that Mash's stamina is so absurd that he can fight for a month straight under conditions that were likely to kill him.

3-An amputated limb that Mash will know to avoid because he can sense how strong an opponent is from pure instinct.

4-Doesn't matter in my honest opinion, that rule is set to SBA, so whatever standard for that is covered. And still, if Asta tries to go for a killing blow, Mash will sense it and know to back away.

1-You still haven't explained how Mash can use his Analytical Prediction on Asta since Ki allows Asta to react to enemies faster than him and wasn't working on Kiato.

2-That just means his RPL takes literal days to work, that's not very fast. Asta too has a lot of stamina since he could fight for three days straight against someone much stronger than him while using a power up that put a heavy strain on his body.

3- Asta had both instinctive reaction and precog/analytical prediction and still couldn't react to Kiato's attacks.

4-Not when there's multiple ranged attacks being spammed while Asta always knows where Mash is.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Still reading, interesting so far.

That's going to be the case for most Mashle vs Black Clover matches, especially when Mashle's anime eventually airs in 2023

 

[AnAverageUsername]

1-You still haven't explained how Mash can use his Analytical Prediction on Asta since Ki allows Asta to react to enemies faster than him and wasn't working on Kiato.

Ah, that's what you meant? Guess I misread that part. From how you're describing it, it just seems that it's a boost in reaction speed, but I don't watch Black Clover so I can't directly comment on that. And who's Kiato?

2-That just means his RPL takes literal days to work, that's not very fast. Asta too has a lot of stamina since he could fight for three days straight against someone much stronger than him while using a power up that put a heavy strain on his body.

It doesn't necessarily mean it takes days, and from how I'm interpreting your tone, it seems you believe that it's only instantaneous? Well we actually do get quick cuts to the first armor Mash fights, and from it, we can see it isn't instantaneous, but an upward growth that creeps up. But besides that, there's still the point of Mash gaining a resistance to gravity in just mere moments, as well as being able to see an attack once and then knowing how to counter it almost perfectly.

3- Asta had both instinctive reaction and precog/analytical prediction and still couldn't react to Kiato's attacks.

Again, who's Kiato? And that sounds like a disadvantage to Asta if I'm being honest, how is that helpful? I'm probably just lacking context because I don't watch or read Black Clover.

4-Not when there's multiple ranged attacks being spammed while Asta always knows where Mash.

Just because there's multiple ranged attacks doesn't mean Mash can't avoid them. He was actually in this situation before, as when he fought Margarette, she once ended up surrounding him with attacks that would have hit him all at once, yet Mash avoided it by using underground traversal.

Also, Mash still has his Muscle "Magic", which one of them gives him a speed amp, and others may as well give him an AP amp.

 

[Azevedo128]

Ah, that's what you meant? Guess I misread that part. From how you're describing it, it just seems that it's a boost in reaction speed, but I don't watch Black Clover so I can't directly comment on that. And who's Kiato?

It doesn't necessarily mean it takes days, and from how I'm interpreting your tone, it seems you believe that it's only instantaneous? Well we actually do get quick cuts to the first armor Mash fights, and from it, we can see it isn't instantaneous, but an upward growth that creeps up. But besides that, there's still the point of Mash gaining a resistance to gravity in just mere moments, as well as being able to see an attack once and then knowing how to counter it almost perfectly.

Again, who's Kiato? And that sounds like a disadvantage to Asta if I'm being honest, how is that helpful? I'm probably just lacking context because I don't watch or read Black Clover.

Just because there's multiple ranged attacks doesn't mean Mash can't avoid them. He was actually in this situation before, as when he fought Margarette, she once ended up surrounding him with attacks that would have hit him all at once, yet Mash avoided it by using underground traversal.

Also, Mash still has his Muscle "Magic", which one of them gives him a speed amp, and others may as well give him an AP amp.

Kiato is a swordsman that Asta fought and during their fight Asta literally couldn't sense his movements due to his combat style. Asta later is able to learn Kiato's style and adapt it into his combat style essentially making him resist analytical prediction.

I haven't read Mashle so I can't really judge but all of Mash's feats feel like he's fighting fodder and never someone on his level tbh.

I vote inconclusive since Asta can easily one shot if he hits Mash in the right place and can't be sensed but Mash has bullshit everything else.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mash's analytical pred is different from the ki sensing. Besides, Asta rarely uses Kiato's technique (He only use this two times)

 

[Azevedo128]

Mash's analytical pred is different from the ki sensing. Besides, Asta rarely uses Kiato's technique (He only use this two times)

Asta incorporated the technique into his standard combat style.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Asta incorporated the technique into his standard combat style.

Proof?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Proof?

vs Leibe it was revealed to be the case.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Kiato is a swordsman that Asta fought and during their fight Asta literally couldn't sense his movements due to his combat style. Asta later is able to learn Kiato's style and adapt it into his combat style essentially making him resist analytical prediction.

Alright, there's the context I needed. So, it took him how long to adapt to this Kiato's style? And is this style based on Analytical Prediction? Either way, that still doesn't sound like it compares to Mash's Analytical Prediction where he only needs to see it once to counter it, as well as being able to avoid multiple FTE attacks.

I haven't read Mashle so I can't really judge but all of Mash's feats feel like he's fighting fodder and never someone on his level tbh.

Oh, he does fight people at his level. He struggles, and even eventually loses in his base before having to release weights that he'd only take off in dire situations. And even if Mash holds himself back in battles, he always uses his skills when taking on the big guys to obtain his win, not mindlessly swinging his fists around. He abuses the laws of physics and the environment to his advantage, while fighting wizards from a top class magic academy with only a 3% pass rate that hosts Divine Visionaries, top of the class leaders. He also fights against wizards who have such magical skill that they can preform Secondths, Summoning and Thirds, which only the most skilled and hardworking can obtain. It's the reason why I admire Mashle's fights, as it shows that everyone can use their brains during fights.

I vote inconclusive since Asta can easily one shot if he hits Mash in the right place and can't be sensed but Mash has bullshit everything else.

What do you mean by can't be sensed? Mash's muscles tell him the opponent's power, and he subconsciously knows when an attack is fatal and can even dodge attacks while his brain is disconnected from his body through pure instincts. Anyways, counting.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

vs Leibe it was revealed to be the case.

It's a more advanced Asta
But anyway, ki sensing analytical pred is based on literally sensing the next move, while Mash's prediction is based on adapting to how the opponent fights and moves
Its different

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Alright, there's the context I needed. So, it took him how long to adapt to this Kiato's style? And is this style based on Analytical Prediction? Either way, that still doesn't sound like it compares to Mash's Analytical Prediction where he only needs to see it once to counter it, as well as being able to avoid multiple FTE attacks.

Kiato’s fighting style also throws off senses which i presume is how Mashle predicts

and Asta assimilated the skill immediately.

Damn so Azevedo hasn’t read Mashle too? Well he better join me soon to read jk.

 

[Azevedo128]

Kiato’s fighting style also throws off senses which i presume is how Mashle predicts

and Asta assimilated the skill immediately.

Damn so Azevedo hasn’t read Mashle too? Well he better join me soon to read jk.

Tried to read it but was to lazy to continue lol. I need to check it out though. Maybe I'll watch the anime.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I’ll definitely watch the anime too

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Kiato’s fighting style also throws off senses which i presume is how Mashle predicts

Does shifting magnetic poles thus causing Mash's attacks to constantly whiff count? Because Mash adapted to that. Though King probably has more to say about this, my knowledge is currently running short after expelling most of it in this debate.

and Asta assimilated the skill immediately.

Damn so Azevedo hasn’t read Mashle too? Well he better join me soon to read jk.

Most people don't, there's only 4 active Mashle supporters, and only 2 of them actively participate in these vs threads. Guess who those two are.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I’ll definitely watch the anime too

Tried to read it but was to lazy to continue lol. I need to check it out though. Maybe I'll watch the anime.

Good thing it comes out in 2023, so it may be the Winter season or Spring season it airs. It's also been rumored that either A-1 Pictures or Joen, combination of WIT and Cloverworks animation team, will animate Mashle.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

AnAverage looks like someone offering drugs ngl

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I’ll definitely watch the anime too

I am waiting to read others opinions

Also, seems like the arguments are mainly over, in case you two were waiting to vote.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Oh I’m waiting to read so I can provide more arguments.

I should be done with Mashle in a few days since I’m working on a multiple BC crts

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Oh I’m waiting to read so I can provide more arguments.

I should be done with Mashle in a few days since I’m working on a multiple BC crts

Ah. If you dont mind, could you give your current rating and the chapter you're on?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

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[AnAverageUsername]

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[AnAverageUsername]

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[AnAverageUsername]

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