Masadaverse: Better to wrap this out and end it forever

[ALRF]

I won't beat around the bush. I'm actually pretty pissed off when i see "1-A growth Reinhard" or "1-A hax Reinhard" being used as an argument when we never mentioned them in page or some shit like that.

So what i am gonna do is simple. Give some arguments supporting 1-A hax so that people may discuss it.

1-A Hax argument

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It is a Hadou that gains supremacy over all, be it existing common sense or values. Here is the absolute law of the new world swallowing and repainting all with its color

Right here, we have Gladsheimr being described as a law of absoluteness of the new world. The term new world refers to the world that will overthrow Mercurius Known world that is ruled by his Law.

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It was light that reminded me of the new world that sweeped off the old order

The old order is, again, a reference to Mercurius law. Moreoever, Methuselah himself is part of the "old order" as he was direcly born from The Snake of Mercury's law.

All of this are but minor thing to the real deal



With its release on the world in Marie's route, everything in Suwahara City was consumed by Gladsheimr. The important statement is the : His Creation Figment engulfed the whole city, detaching it from the outer world

In Interview, we get to understand more about its separation from Mercurius law

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The space (Gladsheimr/Valhalla) was separated from the world laws (Mercurius'), and as such, concept of distance and coordinates were destroyed.

Simply enough, due to its singularity, it completely disregards concepts in Mercurius world such as distance and coordinates for instance, to freely travel in the world. (It should be however noted that Gladsheimr can be forced to be engulfed in the Flow of Mercury)

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Additionally, much like Reinhard himself, the Longinuslanze Testament is a weapon born directly from Mercurius thoughts of dying. It literally embodies his desire to die and as such, should be completely capable of killing him

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Ultimate Briah that is on verge of reaching the Atziluth

This one is clear and simple. Reinhard Briah is powerful that is condisdered on the Atziluth degree (1-A when looking over the rankings of our system and Ewigkeits) despite being a Briah.

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Longinuslanze has even described as being equal to Ren Fuji Holy Relic, which houses Marie and is capable of replicating her curse/power

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In Marie's route, Reinhard loses to Ren Fuji, fully accepting Marie world. He is later reincarnated as a priest. However, it is stated should Marie's power weaken enough, his beastly nature and strength will come back. This is actually something by his own power and not related to his nature as an Apoptosis of Mercurius as the snake lost his self-destructive impulses due to him living in a world without foreknowledge

1-A Growth
This one is simple







After the eigth swastika is opened, and with the use of Zonnenkind Atziluth. Reinhard is having his existence promoting to Hadou God.

Nothing much to talk about really

TL;DR

• Reinhard Briah is completely separated from Mercurius law (albeit it can be forced into it) and is capable of destroying concepts within this law
• Reinhard Spear being described as washing away "the old order" (Mercurius world/law)
• Reinhard Spear being the manifesation of Mercurius desire to die
• Reinhard can gain back his power even under Marie Law which reincarnated him as a priest. This has nothing to do with Mercurius and his nature and relation to the Snake
• Reinhard Briah being described as being on the Atziluth degree
• Reinhard Spear being stated to be comparable to Ren Fuji Holy Relic that houses Marie and is capable of replicating her curse

I don't care whether this is agreed upon or not, i just don't want to hear this being mentioned again in VS threads.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

tbh this seems 1-A with hax not AP. We hax tier blah blah via hax before really hell keishirou is eventual 1-A so there is that

 

[ALRF]

Bump

 

[Maxnumb231]

This is nice

 

[Warren_Valion]

Following.

 

[DMB_1]

Mmh... Following.

 

[ALRF]

Shouldn't that

"Following just to see the chaos it will ensue" ? ovo

That is...if chaos does ensue

 

[Warren_Valion]

Shouldn't that
"Following just to see the chaos it will ensue" ? ovo

That is...if chaos does ensue

There is no question if Chaos will ensue, only whe.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The only chaos I see that could appear is whether or not this is 1-A hax or 1-A AP.

If the spear can actually kill Mercurius by stabbing him / shooting a beam of light though, that I would say is 1-A AP.

Other stuff would be hax.

 

[SchroKatze]

I agree

 

[ALRF]

Bump

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Was powerleveling with the power of money son

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Oh shit i got the thread mixed up

 

[ALRF]

LMAO

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Kek

 

[Warren_Valion]

Okay, time to break this down.

1-A Growth: This is undeniable. Anyone who has read to the end of Marie and Rea's routes can account for this happening. Not much to say except "I agree".

Reinhard's 1-A Shit: While most of the evidence hails from Dies Irae - Interview with Kaziklu Bey, which I have never read as it hasn't been translated. There are a few from Dies Irae ~Amantes Amentes~ that I vividly remember reading, not to mention that the screenshots and direct translations wash away my doubts. And I can't help but have to agree that Reinhard's Yetzirah and Briah are seemingly at a 1-A level.


So the only question, as Monarch Laciel mentioned, is whether or not this correlates with Hax or AP. I'm inclined to believe the former as the lance's hax is what really does the killing, but what do I know.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

tbh i feel thats more to the hax and lance only not rein's punching AP but eh

 

[ALRF]

Bump.

I'm more inclined to believe its hax

Gods can't really die by normal attack so i doubt that its a matter of AP.

 

[DMB_1]

Take note that some hax can actually be measured by Tiering, like EE and Reality Warping.

 

[Extreme123dz]

> He is later reincarnated as a priest

So much perfection was to be retained by celibacy.

xDDD

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I am not very knowledgeable on the series, but it seems like hax to me

 

[DMB_1]

All right, while I am not knowledgeable about the verse, I'll state my opinion.

The stuff about Reinhard and his Ulitmate Penetration Tool being born from Mercurius' will to die sounds more something that could solidify the possibility of the Spear being -A, rather than being a direct proof.

The stuff about Marie seems fine, though f it's on par with Ren's Holy relic, wouldn't make that 1-A too?

Also, I disagree with it being hax: if Reinhard can actually kill Merc with that thing, or even manipulate a 1-A realm's law, that definitely AP, and the latter some level of Reality Warping on the same scale.

Now you are like: "but what about the Eastern Expedition? They have 1-A hax, not AP", which is true, however, what distinguishes them from Rein's case, is that their hax have actually some sort of special ability, that works on a 1-A, rather than simply a weapon capable of killing one without a specific effect.

By what you are describing, Rein would have to throw his spear at merc, and he would die. That would be it. This sounds like AP

In other's case, like Keyshirou, he is actually able to absorb their powers/life energy, whatever. This sounds like a special ability.

So, I'd say that Reinhard could be "possibly/likely 1-A" with the spear, rather than a solid rating.

But this is just my opinion, and again, my knowledge of the verse is very lacking. Though, nice job ALFR at translating this stuff!

 

[ALRF]

Your opinion is taken into consideration.

And thanks! <3

I'll get into your post later as i am kinda busy (and kinda lazy/tired) to reply now

 

[Arianrhod_The_Sept-Terrion_Eternal]

Both sides make a valid point.

@ALRF Doesn't Rindou wield a full power Longinus as well since Reinhard granted her the Longinus power?

 

[ALRF]

Yes.

In fact:

• With almost unconscious movement, she (Rindou Koga) drags a bow with an arrow and sets her aim at the exposed and complete defenseless Tokoyo
• Simultaneously,spinning the spell of the golden afterglow of the lost soul that naturally overflows from the inside, in front of the name she cried to

Main poin: Rindou Koga longinusfies some random arrow and bow through the use of Reinhard power, royally ******* the Tenmas (and ignoring concepts of distance and distorting space)

 

[SchroKatze]

Off Topic.


Thanks @DMB for creating a new meme.


"Reinhard throws his Ultimate Penetration Tool"

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

@DMB well "Reinhard throws his Ultimate Penetration Tool" is certainly lovely but yeah that sort of makes sense. Some of his hax is 1-A but only LLT has a legit 1-A thing. So maybe 4-A likely 1-A with hax and LLT (explain nature in AP section)?

Off topic here but about ren since his curse is from marie wouldn't that be 1-A via holy relic's decapitation/hax (well only that hax)?

 

[Warren_Valion]

What would this mean for LLT's passive Mind and Soul Hax? Would they be a 1-A level?

Would that dramatically improve the resistances of the main characters?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

that likely would increase resistance if 1-A soul and mind was legit but still no clue if that would be legit? idek

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Unlikely

They've never otherwise shown such a level of resistance, it would be an outlier at best even if we assumed it was correct. Which would be extrapolation.

 

[Dziga]

As I have told in other threads, Reinhard's 1-A shit is 100% legit. Another argument for LLT having 1-A hax is that the novel constantly compares The Spear with Nigredo, aka the 1(-A) Punch Man.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Machina's punches being 1-A in base isn't legit though. This was said in another thread.

 

[Dziga]

I don't remember, and I don't see why it shouldn't be 1-A since the evidence is very blatant.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Not really

There's exactly one instant of Machina's punches being 1-A in base, which is when Ren has just started going Atziluth and worries that Machina's punches could still hurt him if he gained a history.

It was determined that it was an outlier, and that KKK's Taikyoku system contradicted it.

There's also the fact that despite Ren supposedly being in Atziluth, he was still fighting with base Machina, who was able to physically hurt him. Which makes no sense.

 

[Dziga]

I don't see why it contradicts the lore. Machina literally became part of Reinhard, and as we are discussing here, he has 1-A hax of his own.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Not really
There's exactly one instant of Machina's punches being 1-A in base, which is when Ren has just started going Atziluth and worries that Machina's punches could still hurt him if he gained a history.

It was determined that it was an outlier, and that KKK's Taikyoku system contradicted it.

There's also the fact that despite Ren supposedly being in Atziluth, he was still fighting with base Machina, who was able to physically hurt him. Which makes no sense.

Isn't that the 1-A growth though?


Ren's law begins to emanate, but in the meantime, he's still fighting Machina before he can fully emanate.


How is that a contradiction?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If he is fighting Machina, who was in unrestricted base I assume seeing as we are arguing for 1-A one punch in base, then at that moment he's 5-B. Not 1-A.

 

[Archaron]

Sooo still time to say "I agree"?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I agree if this is hax.

 

[ALRF]

I think one could argue for mind hax resistance on a 1-A scale for Reinhard

But 1-A soul hax resistance? Definitely not