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Masadaverse AP Clarification.

Lenus010

Lenus010

75
6
It is established that one night is the equivalent of half the world's Density and there are Decillions of them that would be Far Higher than Planet level, so the explanation for his AP is flawed, there is a much better scan that classifies him for this rating.

After bodying Wilhelm and taking claudia with him, its stated that should Methuselah let go of all his restraint the damage would be so great that all the darkness would be ripped away from where they previously occupied and the entire world would crumble (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473522268841181195/569224266017538069/Screenshot_179.png)

this would be a more apt explanation for him being planet level than the one previously given.
 
the same conceptual darkness that was used as a substantiation his AP rating on his own profile? yeah, i don't see why this shouldn't be able to be added as a more coherent explanation, they are literally the same thing, him embodying the mystery of the night was used to substantiate his rating, the difference here is that same mystery is stated to actually be able to cause destruction on a planetary level, unlike the other explanation.
 
I think his point is more that the description doesn't sound planet level at all, at some better written justification would do. Not that the AP rating itself needs a change.
 
Right on point. The rating doesn't sound Planet level at all. It is indeed way higher but many would be confused how it would be planet, which this would fix.
 
i think that would be good to add and explain doe it does mention his mere movements can destroy at least half a planet with the power of a single night and hundreds would already cover planet level likely via the jaws of darkness afaik
 
I think that seems reasonable. What do you think Monarch?
 
I disagree.

His "nights" are specifically stated to have a density equal to half the planet, because well, night covers half the planet. Something being specifically stated to have that "density" and thus durability (and AP if he hits you with them) is completely different to his motion destroying the world.

His motion destroys the world because it causes a "collapse of yin-yang". As Methuselah - who is darkness itself and all "dark" concepts (e.g. nocturnal beings, negative emotions, the yi in yin yang, etc etc) - moves, he moves all those dark concepts with him, tearing them out of their natural place in the balance of yin and yang. He tears away the darkness from dark things, but there's no light to fill them either, so its just erased. As that scan straight up says:

"They would become an emptiness where neither light nor shadow reigned and then vanish".

That's hax, not AP, and should not be used as an AP justification.
 
Okay. Never mind then. Thank you for the evaluation.
 
Why does this matter? all his darkness based attacks would be equivalent to half the worlds density nonetheless, those same nights that have the density of half the world Methuselah shifted their motion to bring planetary destruction, however you look at it him saying the world would become an "emptiness where neither light nor shadow reigned and would vanish" is implying the total and compete destruction of the planet in context. your shifting the VNs context for your own interpretation of the ability. ofc, you could say that it can be implied, but its completely metaphorical in context. This wouldn't even make sense to be hax since he is doing it through pure movement alone.
 
"likely" doesn't apply when Methuselah is explicitly stated to embody decillions of Mystery nights, which is also used to substantiate his tiering. Which also results in much higher rating when you combine that with the fact that apparently half a night is equal to that of a planet in density.
 
How are you going to keep Methuselah at Plant level, due to the simple argument that "half the density of the planet and he embodies octillions", when half of the density of the planet isn't even planet level, rather small planet, and you are using the numerical part to boost it up there but even with kindergarten calculations that would be no lower than Multi Solar System. Octillions x some Pluton lvl joules = 5-B Now? You may try to claim that his power doesn't increase like the typical fashion with numbers, but you would be literally downgrading him from his current tier.

As each night passes, methuselah adds it to its own, common sense, want further proof of his power increasing non-stop? Everyone admits that magic grows stronger every day, especially methuselah, as the world advances, so does our imagination, which gives people more things to associate Methuselah with.

Hell, forget Methuselah growing unfathomably stronger as time goes on and how much he has been around for, when he combines the density of thousands++ nights in one attack, that would by definition be above 5-B.

The tier he is given currently is completely illogical.
 
i mean tbf his darkness is an accumulation from big bang till 1944 then u times that by decillion resets...afaik
 
I don't disagree that he should probably be a lot higher than he is, but I was just here to explain how yin yang collapse destroys the world via movement is not AP
 
The Yin-Yang is straight up conceptual erasure, since Methu removes the thing from the duality of existence, which erases it due to "tyrning into something thats not something".

His AP comes from the KE from planetary mass and the freaking stacking of his mass, which actually could reach 4-A to 3-A in some calcs.
 
would the darkness stacking even apply to his ap anyway? i can see it being appplied to his durability as you'd need that much power to blow all those night's misteries away and defeat methuselah without resorting to some funky conceptual fuckery as reinhard showcased

in so far we got stuff like black balls composed of hundreds misteries (which would be at least 50 times the planet earth or something to that effect), his strongest attack which is "flooding the continent" in scale (though it's apparently only the effect of its activation alone, so who know what its true scale could be), make the earth vanish through movement (which would be attributed as hax rather than ap as this thread has already addressed), and that darkness machine gun thing that imprisoned machina

the vibe that methuselah gave off honestly feels like some sort of entity that can tank damage more than he can dish them out.
 
at what point was it stated that he can use his entire mass as a method of attacking? he can use his mass in the form of his black ball but it has its own statement of being composed of hundreds darkness so that mean it has its own mass, darkness machine gun thing imprison someone rather than damaging them, respira on steroid is outright hax, his best move's full power is mostly unknown and the side effect of its activation is hilariously lower than what he did with his other attack, etc

closest thing you'd get to his entire mass corroborate to his ap would be when he punched wilhelm. and that kinda falls apart when wilhelm blow half of his body when his fist collide with one of methuselah's ball, yet he doesn't get blown to smithereen when methuselah punched him back. unless now his balls are superior to his supposedly entire mass punch, which in itself is pretty contradictory, that argument doesn't really fly either
 
Gun Slave Unit said:
at what point was it stated that he can use his entire mass as a method of attacking? he can use his mass in the form of his black ball have its own statement of being composed of hundreds darkness so that mean it has its own mass, darkness machine gun thing imprison someone rather than damaging them, respira on steroid is outright hax, his best move's full power is mostly unknown and the side effect of its activation is hilariously lower than what he did with his other attack, etc
closest thing you'd get to his entire mass corroborate to his ap would be when he punched wilhelm. and that kinda falls apart when wilhelm blow half of his body when his fist collide with one of methuselah's ball, yet he doesn't get blown to smithereen when methuselah punched him back. unless now his balls are superior to his supposedly entire mass punch, which in itself is pretty contradictory, that argument doesn't really fly either
Click to expand...
All of his attacks are him condensing his darkness to attack others.

His mind hax is born from the pressure that the condensing of that darkness creates.
 
which have their own statement of how much night condensed in them. the machine gun jail was something like 1400 years worth of night (or something, i don't really remember the number), his balls are made out of 100 days worth of darkness. i don't remember if his other attacks have these kind of statement as well

i don't disagree with him condensing the mysteries that made him into a method of attacking. my issue lies in that there were nothing that say hes condensing all the mass of nights he embodied (the decillion nights which would be in the tier 4 to 3 range) as some sort of attack. i can agree that this is something that can be applied to his durability however
 
Methuselah entrapping Machina in that darkness is weird, he stated it was 500k nights than said 1400 right after so take that as you will.

he releases the darkness attack by attack, i dont think they should AP scale at all. It should be noted that Methuselah's mind hax releases all the nights he's experienced on the world, unlike his other attacks, so that shouldn't be taken to scale. There is nothing that implies that the darkness can scale as well.

plus, he's better at planet level nonetheless.
 
Honestly, wouldn't Meth be like 5-A to High 5-A or higher with the amount of nights he is stacking into his attacks?
 
Depends how many nights he decides to use honestly.

Also, seeing as we are apparently not counting the infinite nights across the infinite multiverse thing, should it be noted that he could theoretically run out of nights to use (even if there are billions of decilions) or does he have a way of getting back the nights he uses in his attacks?
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Depends how many nights he decides to use honestly.
Also, seeing as we are apparently not counting the infinite nights across the infinite multiverse thing, should it be noted that he could theoretically run out of nights to use (even if there are billions of decilions) or does he have a way of getting back the nights he uses in his attacks?
Click to expand...
Well if each night is half the energy of the planet, and all of his attacks have condensed nights that range from hundreds of nights as the weakest to hundreds of thousands of nights as the strongest, then I am pretty sure even the weakest of his condensed nights are beyond planet level while the strongest of his attacks are far beyond it.


And is there any reason for us to not use infinite nights across an infinite multiverse?

To answer your question, I never really thought he was "using up" nights within himself to attack people with, I always thought he was manipulating dark energy with the strength of a certain amount of his nights, honestly the thought he was using up part of himself to attack never really crossed my mind, but I could be wrong though.

Honestly, while there is so much said about Methuselah, there is a lot unsaid about him as well. I guess you can say, he truly is a mystery.
 
At least for the darkness spheres he stuck Machina in, I think he separated them from himself so he wouldn't be destroyed by Machina destroying them. If he kept doing that I assume he could run out of nights eventually.

Dunno if he separates the nights from himself normally or if they do get used up. I'll check the scans against next time I get a chance.

And we can use the infinite night if you want high 3-A meth...
 
Yeah I don't get how being half of Decillion times planet level doesn't bump you up to a higher tier and not just 'Likely Far higher' is Methusala really 0.5x a decillion times above planet level?
 
i forgot smth about rep calcing it to be tier 3. Last i check was galaxy to multi but...i can't find it OOF
 
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