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Marvel "What if...?" and Infinity Stones revision

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The_one_you_least_expect said:
How is it “pure conjecture” when the director straight up states what’s happening?

The fact that they are even trying to build a multivrese would imply they know a little more the the average joe
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Eh? They're tryina write a story my dude, they're not gonna be looking at the most minute nerd shit. Plus, on the dictionary, a multiverse is "a hypothetical collection of identical or diverse universes, including our own."

Destroying a bunch of universes one at a time does mean destroying multiverses, yes. It is possible that they might have intended it as a 2-C to 2-A feat, but I don't think there's enough evidence.
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
I suggest just making this simple by going with Low 2-C for now, and if toyle wants to make a crt for 2-A, they can do that later. The OP proposed L2-C so let's not waste time arguing in this thread over a proposal that was never intended to be included.
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chosen said:
Btw so far i am leaning towards armor
As far as i want at least 2b vultron if not 2a he has better points imo
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I agree here and besides possibly higher was already accepted which leaves room for things to more easily be revised considering we could possibly get higher feats from the stones at any point later in the MCU
 
This shouldn't be a problem since there's so much more room for the MCU to grow literally Eternals in just a few days will up the scale once again and introduce characters whom already have calc's that are 6-A and 2-A celestials hell even Doctor Strange performs a possibly 2-C feat in NWH as we see in the trailer and venom since he as he stated messed with time and ended up merging some universe's brining characters from them into the MCU so there's no rush for bigger feats when they're already on their way
 
ThanatosX said:
What if…? ended, and with it there are multiple topics to talk about, both regarding the show and also regarding new things that were discovered recently about the Infinity Stones, so this will be a revision to apply the changes to the characters of the series.

Let’s start with the characters that will have a profile or that already have one but will change drastically in AP. I’m talking about Infinite Ultron, the Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme.

Infinite Ultron

For the abilities in his profile we will use the draft made by Emirp sumitpo.

Regarding the AP, the proposal is “Low 2-C” both for scaling to the Watcher, which have his own Low 2-C feat, and also for the following reasons:

- During this scene (timestamp 1:06), as Word of God said, he was punching throught multiple universes across the Multiverse, turning them into one "Messy Universe Soup", which means that he was significantly affecting the reality of the single Universes he was punching throught.

- As shown in this scene (timestamp 1:24), he was able to rewrite the reality of the Universe in which he was with simple punches. As you can see, everyone around them that was watching them fight was “rewritten” into Wakandian first and Skrull later, the crater below the Watcher was getting bigger and bigger at every punch and at the end they were in an ice place with a giant Moon, all of which are further evidences that Ultron was rewriting reality itself.

Another thing to take into consideration is that the Watcher considered him to be a danger to the entire Multiverse.

There are also multiple feats permormed casually by Ultron, calculated thanks to the help of AbaddonTheDisappointment. The most notable includes:

- Ultron becoming giant and eating a galaxy. It’s important to notice that the bite causes an explosion that completely dwarfs the galaxy and hits Infinite Ultron’s face, without causing him a single scratch;

- Him clearly saying that he can “destroy galaxies with a thought” and then proceding to do so, causing a massive galactic explosion;

- Infinite Ultron casually destroying multiple planets with a single shockwave, blowing up a planet and his sentinels quickly destroying Ego.

If all of this wasn’t enough, we also have two supporting feat directly from the movies that support such an AP for the Stones, and therefore for Infinity Ultron too. The Reality Stone alone would have been able to transform all matter in the Universe into darkness by using the Convergence, and all of the Stones combined could tear the Universe down to its last atom and ramake it from nothing. More about this last feat later.

For all of this reasons, his AP and Durability should be Low 2-C. As Qawsedf234 proposed, his AP description should be as follow:

Attack Potency: City level+ (Should be comparable to Vision), possibly far higher (Destroyed Captain America's shield through unknown means), At least Island level with Mind Stone (Easily killed Thanos and melted the Infinity Gauntlet) | Universe level+ (His blows altered the universe he fought in. Fought and eventually overpowered the Watcher, who was stated by Doctor Strange Supreme to be able to fix the collapse of a timeline. WoG states that Ultron is legitimately punching through Universes across the Multiverse and turning them into one "Messy Universe Soup". Able to destroy galaxies with a thought. Can harm The Watcher who survived being attacked by Ultron at this size. Casually destroyed multiple planets at once. Stated to have wipe out all life in the Universe in an unknown time frame.)

For speed and LS, the draft profile will be used as a reference based on the calculations and the reasons in it.

The Watcher

Similiarly to Infinite Ultron, the draft made by Emirp sumitpo will be used for the abilities.

For the AP, the proposal is once again “Low 2-C”, considering that Strange Supreme clearly says in this scene (timestamp 1:04) that he would have been able to restore the collapsing timeline with his powers, which he refuses to do not because he can’t do it but because he doesn’t want to break his oath. It’s important to say that time and space were both collapsing, which means that to restore the Universe he would need to recreate the continuum space-time itself of said Universe.

On top of this, he was able to fight equally against Infinite Ultron, and during the fight he also shown an incredibly good durability. He was able to come out almost unscratched after Ultron punched him throught multiple Universes, he than survived a 3-B explosion of a galaxy and was only defeated by the reality warping punches of Ultron.

This means that, like Infinite Ultron, his AP and Durability should be both “Low 2-C”. The description, as Qawsedf234 proposed, should be:

Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Stated to be able to fix the collapse of a timeline by Doctor Strange Supreme. Doctor Strange Supreme saw Uatu as far more powerful than him. Could somewhat hold his own against Infinite Ultron)

For speed and LS we will use the draft as a reference, like with Ultron.

Doctor Strange Supreme

This character already have a profile, but after the finale it obviously should be modified according to what was shown.

In this case, the proposal is “At least 9-B physically, Low 2-C with magic”.

For his physical statitics, we will use the normal Strange statistics, with the exception of his Durability. That would be 8-C, considering this calculation made by AbaddonTheDisappointment which gives us a result of 9-A+ and also the fact that he was able to survive hits from the Hydra’s Champion, which effortlessly crushed Red Skull.

Regarding the Low 2-C AP with magic, there are a lot of things to talk about. His Environmental Destruction is already listed as such for causing the collapse of a Timeline, but there are multiple things to list that would give him said AP with his magic in general:

- His magic was able to slow down the collapse of a timeline and his barrier was able to resist said collapse. By itself it might not mean much, but it’s still a supporting feat nontheless.

- He was able to create a protective spell on all of the Guardians of the Multiverse, which made them survive multiple direct attacks from Ultron, boosting their attacks too to the point that they were able to actually damage him.

- He reverted the galactic explosion, shrinked it and then ate it like nothing.

- Even by himself he was able to fight equally against Ultron to the point of damaging him, and his shields were also able to take multiple attacks from him.

On top of the above, Infinite Ultron himself admitted that Strange was the most dangerous member of the group, to the point of saying that if he was able to kill him then the rest would have been easy.

To back all of this up, there is also the fact that his magic became so powerful that he was able to change an Absolute Point, something that even the Ancient One isn’t able to do. And the Ancient One is the same one that with a magical attack was able to split the Universe in two separate timelines.

For all the reasons mentioned above, his statistics would be:

- AP: “At least 9-B physically, Low 2-C with magic”

- Durability: “8-C, Low 2-C with barriers”

- Speed: “At least Sub-Relativistic (is able to keep up with Ultron)”

- Lifting Strenght: “Average Human, at least Class T with Magic (was able to restrain Ultron)”

Other than updating his statistics, there are also a couple of abilities that should be added to his profiles:

- Duplication (duplicated the Mjolnir);

- Animal Manipulation (created and then controlled a three headed dragon);

- Power Bestowal (the protective spell he made on the Guardian of the Multiverse);

- Resistence to Time Manipulation (was unaffected or was able to break free from the Time Manipulation of Ultron)

Infinity Stones

Now, let’s talk about the Infinity Stones. Considering that Infinite Ultron performed his Low 2-C feats only because of the boost given by the Stones, their collective AP should scale to him making them Low 2-C too. The Durability should be the same since they are able to resist their own energetic output and in What if they were shown to be able to come out unscratched after galactic explosions.

Regarding the abilities of the Stones, a new guide book was discovered that better explains the powers of the single stones, giving each of them new haxes that were previously only speculated. Many thanks to sanicspood for finding this and to Enryu_The_Red_Tower and Colonel_Krukov for the links to the single pages.

All of the following abilities will be added to those that are able to use the Stones:

- Soul Stone: Life Manipulation, Death Manipulation and Soul Sealing;

- Space Stone: Black Hole Creation, Dimensional Travel (2-A), Gravity Manipulation and possibly Physics Manipulation;

- Mind Stone: Telepathy, Telekinesis, Dream Manipulation, Mind Manipulation on a universal scale (only with all six Infinity Stones together) and grants Genius Intelligence;

- Time Stone: Time Manipulation, Time Stop and Precognition;

- Reality Stone: Illusion Creation, Transmutation, Dimensional Travel (2-A too) and Earth Manipulation/Environmental Destruction (manipulation of the environment);

- Power Stone: Statistics Amplification, Energy Pojection, Energy Manipulation on a universal scale (only with all six Infinity Stones) and Enhanced Stamina.

As ArkhamDC06 proposed, the Reality Stone should also have Creation (as seen when Ultron created from nothing an army of Sentries throught the powers of the Stone) and Regeneration (Low-Mid considering that Ultron was able to recreate his arm after it was destroyed).

Wanda and the Mind Stone

During the fifth episode of What if…?, Wanda was trasformed into a Zombie. Vision tried to use the Mind Stone to cure her, testing it on Scott Lang who was infected previously, turning him into a human again. However, the Stone was unable to cure Wanda because her mind was too strong.

For this reason, the Mind Stone should have Purification on its profile and Wanda should have Resistence to Mind Manipulation and Purification for resisting the effects of it.

At least 3-A Thanos

I think everyone knows Thanos’ infamous monologue before fighting the Avengers, right? During that, he claimed that he would shread the Universe down to its last atom and then remake it completely.

This didn’t warrant the complete Infinity Gauntlet a 3-A rating because at that time there wasn’t any evidence that the Infinity Stones were capable of such a feat and for this reason it was decided to give him an “Unknown” rating.

But with what was shown by Infinity Ultron, things are different. He was powered by the Stones, and it was with them that he made all of the Tier 2 feats, which obviously means that the Stone themself together should be Low 2-C as already said above.

The Stones are Universal costants, this means that they have the same power regardless of the Universe they are in. On top of this, the Nexus Event that separated the timeline of Infinite Ultron happened during Age of Ultron, which means that there is no reason to believe that the stones in that Universe were any stronger than the ones that we know.

So, the Stones Thanos used were indeed capable of performing a 3-A feat, scaling from the ones that Infinite Ultron used. For this reasons, the proposal is to replace the “Unknown” in Thanos’ profile with “At least 3-A”

Conclusions:

- “Low 2-C” for Ultron, the Watcher and the full power of the Infinity Stones;

- “At least 9-B, Low 2-C with magic” upgrade for Doctor Strange Supreme;

- New haxes for everyone that used or uses the Infinity Stones, both singularly or together;

- Resistence to Mind Manipulation and Purification for Wanda;

- “At least 3-A” for Thanos with the complete Infinity Gauntlet.

All of this proposals were discussed between many supporter of the verse, which I thanks for the help in making this revision.
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Do you have a link for the guide book about the Stones hax? Just out of curiosity to see what is written (also the Stones profiles must be edit with the new hax naturally)
 
To the surprise of absolutely no-one, I more or less agree with the proposals. The 2-A stuff should wait until at least NWH/Loki S2 comes out so we get a more stable understanding of the cosmology (Even tho I already have my own perspective on it).

Good job to all MCU supporters that contributed to this CRT also before I forget Ultron Infinity and his Sacred timeline counterpart should have hivemind as P&A.
 
Dalesean027 said:
8-C comes from surviving a hit from Hydra's Champion which is a being that overpowered killed red skull in one hit
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Actually, speaking of me missing stuff, weren't the 8-C folks meant to be downgraded? Did that get rejected somehow? Don't count this as an opposition to the thread itself I just thought I might as well ask
 
Armorchompy said:
Don't count this as an opposition to the thread itself I just thought I might as well ask
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Trust me I'm not ur good😁👌
Armorchompy said:
Actually, speaking of me missing stuff, weren't the 8-C folks meant to be downgraded? Did that get rejected somehow?
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And speaking of I'm not sure what's going on with that if so then it's just a solid 9-A+ for doctor Strange's physical I suppose
 
Armorchompy said:
I mean, make them 8-C for now to be consistent with the currently used ratings- when or if they get downgraded then Strange drops too
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Ofc and that would go for any other 8-C rated what if character too, also party thor should be Mountain level too to be consistent since he's just pre-awakened Thor who didn't grow up with Loki
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Similar to how your credit card was invalid at the broken ATM.

Owned.
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walter-white-falling.gif
 
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