Marvel Speed Revisions 3

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Continued from here.

To shamelessly quote Matthew from last thread:

Essentially. there have been numerous Speed Calculations regarding Marvel Heroes, and it has been decided that the speed values of a number of character profiles need to be changed accordingly. The problem comes with who should scale to what calculation exactly, and who shouldn't. Here are all the calculations and their results: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...r_Marvel_speed_feat_requested_by_you-know-who (0.05c) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...om_hitting_the_moon_and_travels_back_to_earth (0.065c) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...level"_superheroes_Massively_Hypersonic+_feat (Mach 2931.76408, the other two are outliers / inaccurate. Personally I'm fine with the third as it is a basic reaction feat) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Huesito88/Spiderman_saving_Norman_Osbor (Likely inaccurate, just a matter of speech.) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Huesito88/Spiderman_Microseconds_agai Spider-Man Microsecond Calc 2 (Mach 5797 or so.) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Huesito88/Silk_Dodges_a_lightning_bolt (Mach 9008.9 or so) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Darkanine/Marvel:_Iron_Fist_reacts_at_a_microsecond (Mach 3,388) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/The_Amazing_Spider_Man:_Electro_calc (Mach 492.762) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan/Some_Electro_feats (Mach 1076.493) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Huesito88/Daredevil_dodging_Lightning_in_a_split_second (Mach 7748.26, probably high-end). These are feats performed by Fing Fang Foom, Rogue, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Captain America, Silk, Ghost Rider and Iron Fist. And they would scale to a number of characters.

We have finished updating Captain America and those who scale, Spider-Man and those who scale, Ghost Rider, and Hulk and those who scale.

Stuff that still needs to be done

• Upgrade Hawkeye and those who scale to (?)MHS+. Problem is who should and shouldn't be MHS+.
• Upgrade the 5-B tiers to 5-A via Kep's recalc (ugh I hate using my new MacBook, keeps on autocorrecting me).
• Upgrade those who scale to Fin Fang Foom/Rogue. Fin Fang Foom has a Sub-Rel+ feat and Rogue has a Sub-Rel feat.
• Matthew thinks that Spider-Man should be downgraded to 8-A

 

[Schnee_One]

Didn't Matt say something about Spiderman needing a downgrade to 8A?

 

[Antvasima]

You should invite Matthew and Sandman31 to this thread.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Didn't Matt say something about Spiderman needing a downgrade to 8A?

Dunno?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Reason?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I disagree heavily with downgraded spider-man.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I disagree for now.

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew has a point in that the current feat we use for Spider-Man and characters scaled to him is rather unreliable.

That said, he is supposed to be significantly physically stronger than Captain America.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

He is .

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I'm quite sure Spider-Man is far stronger than Captain America in the comics.

I also find it odd that Daredevil is 4 tiers weaker than Captain America.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Spider-Man is stronger than a lot of street tier characters.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yes.

 

[Antvasima]

It is possible that 8-A is a too high rating for Captain America and other characters of his level, rather than that 9-A is too low for Daredevil, but I am not committed to doing anything about it.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I think 8-A is fine, they have a number of feats on that level.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I've never seen Daredevil even come close to Cap. Though perhaps Spider-Man could be 8-A himself, while Cap / etc would be lower, like High 8-C.

 

[Antvasima]

I've never seen Daredevil even come close to Cap. Though perhaps Spider-Man could be 8-A himself, while Cap / etc would be lower, like High 8-C.

I think that this seems more in line with their more consistently shown power levels.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

The problem is we would have to most likely find another set of feats to calc or something to use.

 

[Sandman31]

Daredevil has fought multiple times with Captain America though but yeah, he should be inferior physically to Cap

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I would appreciate if somebody could find some appropriate High 8-C feats for Captain America, Black Panther, etcetera, to scale from.

 

[Newendigo]

IIRC Spider-Man tends to hold back most of the time, he even stated he could have blow-up Octopus if he would have used his full strength, so perphaps, he being defeated by 8-A characters is probably because he doesn't go all out.

 

[Antvasima]

More like Marvel's standard plot convenience.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

8-A is fine for Cap imo.

 

[Zacmariozero]

IIRC Spider-Man tends to hold back most of the time, he even stated he could have blow-up Octopus if he would have used his full strength, so perphaps, he being defeated by 8-A characters is probably because he doesn't go all out.

I mean, he's right. Aside from Peter establishing this constantly, we've seen him not hold back before . And this was on a villain- the only time he truly cut loose was against a villain who made him snap.

It would be both nonsensical and massively out of character, especially in the context of the comics and in the context of Spider-Man's character, for him to cut loose against someone who's both on his side and respected by him.

imo, the current ratings are fine for peeps like Cap and Spidey since they have the feats to back it up. Daredevil and Punisher, however, should be ranked higher since they have consistently compared to the likes of these characters .

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

You can remind Sandman31 to comment here. Matthew seems too busy.

I am also interested in seeing what you think that we should do to proceed.

 

[KLOL506]

I agree with Spino here. Cap has dozens of Multi-City Block level feats, and Matthew's scans even showed Cap being regularly unscratched even with futuristic guns which would undeniably have more penetrating power than most high-caliber rifles of today.

 

[Schnee_One]

BTW should we state Winter Soldier as being High 7A with rockets since he one shotted Crimson Dynamo

 

[Newendigo]

Which Crimson Dynamo? There has been over like 6 in the canon 616 continuity.

And it seems like a very random feat that has nothing to scale each other.

 

[Schnee_One]

Not really a Random feat when that was one of the few times it ever made contact with sonethong that wasn't Cap's shield

 

[Antvasima]

I think that is just standard Marvel inconsistency of anybody being able to fight anybody.

 

[Schnee_One]

What's the inconsistency exactly?

"These guys are inconsistent so this guy is inconsistent" isn't logical.

 

[KLOL506]

I agree with Gargoyle on this one.

 

[Newendigo]

We cant scale characters from just one single instance.

We need a very consistent trait of WS being able to fight people on similar level of Crimson.

Or at least perfom feats of similar potency.

 

[Antvasima]

Newendigo is correct. Inconsistency for character matchups isn't occasional in Marvel's case, it is what the story structure for their entire setting is based on.

Stan Lee even stated outright that matchup results are only based on the preferences or whims of the writers at one point.

 

[KLOL506]

The issue here, however, is that the Winter Soldier did it with rockets, not by himself.

 

[Antvasima]

Rockets shouldn't be able to take down an adversary that has repeatedly given Iron Man a serious challenge.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, Iron Man has his own rockets capable of harming such foes, so maybe Bucky could have used those specific rockets.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems too inconsistent. Sorry.

 

[KLOL506]

It seems too inconsistent. Sorry.

Yeah maybe you're right. Guess we'll never know what rockets they were.