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Marvel Revisions: Darkest Times

The_Impress

The_Impress

She/Her
VS Battles
Retired
11,801
7,363
Not much to say

Black Knight
This page just needs a massive rework. using this RT

Base

With Ebony Blade

With Power Lance

Photon Sword

Black Widow
I might need to rewrite the P&A section entirely. RT used

Black Bolt
Just some additions

 
Besides Heat Manipulation and Weapon Mastery for Black Bolt it all looks fine. Or at least usable.
 
  • Weapon Mastery refers to the ability to use one or more types of weaponry with greater skill than the average person
Well since the baseline is "better than the average person" I guess Weapon Mastery is okay. Heat Manipulation its just the force of his scream not actual heat control.
 
BK - Base

  • Extraordinary Genius: Nothing says he reversed engineer those complex technology? "expert in magical weaponry" isn't proved either. Same with "can create complex machinery from debris". The stuff in "and develop his own technologies" should be worded as what he did there.
  • Minor Attack Reflection: The bad man says it's rebounding.
With Ebony Blade

  • Resistance to Transmutation: To Petrification as well as adding this unnecessary powers and making profiles look bad is the only way to make others notice how unnecessary they are.
  • Extremely Limited Time Travel: The user, not the blade.
  • Solar System level with the Ebony Blade: As a likely is good.
WM

  • Pressure Points: Idk if attacking weak points=Pressure Points.
  • Camouflage: Some of the powers were with prep time/due to optional equipment?
  • Instinctive Reaction: The memory wipe could allow things like this to happen, that seems more likely to me than to say that she has that power.
  • Shapeshifting: I saw a videocomic of that story, I'm pretty sure that and other things she has there are optional equipment.
BB

  • Absorption: He made the lance powerless by having his antennae neutralizing its energy, not absorbing it, so Power Null.
  • Antimatter Manipulation: He turns something into it so Transmutation too, maybe Limited.
  • Heat Manipulation?: I think maybe the sound blew those parts of him away.
  • Resistance to Mind Manipulation: As minor.
  • Res. to Information Analysis: He lacked the info she was looking for (having a flaw, because of course), should he resist the power she wouldn't be able to use it on him or something.
The rest is all good.
 
B. Knight:

  • Tech manip for the lance is a no, first scan is energy absorption and the second just projection.
  • Resistance to heat is just resistance to fire.
  • Heat manip is also a no. You need direct control over the temperature over whatever object you are focusing, or at the very least, manipulate your own temperature or of your attacks,
B. Widow:

  • Again, no heat manipulation, melting something is not the as manipulating thermal energy.
  • Again, no tech manipulation, disrupting or damaging tech is not the same as manipulating it.
B. Bolt:

  • Again, no tech manipulation, disrupting or damaging tech is not the same as manipulating it.
Aside from these problems, everything looks fine to me.
 
Efi@ Bolt actually should have energy absorption going by his Marvel's Database page.

I agree with the rest of your points.
 
@Efi

  • "These Old Imperion Airships just needed a little tinkering" for the first scan. "So Dane, are you still the weapon aficianado as you claim to be?" Strange is clearly there for a second opinion so why would he go to a guy who knows nothing? Wording what he did forces me to write not one, but 4 other technologies as well since he made the power lance and the horses as well.
  • K
  • I don't exactly care getting Petrification removed and that's extra work, so no
  • The user can only pull it off with the blade
  • Likely for blatant feats? It has no antifeats here...
  • Weak points are a layman term for pressure points, aren't they?
  • K, I'll list it as such
  • Eh, it's still acting as a proof of instinctive reactions, there are statements of her "doing things as she's not even thinking about them" so it's very definitely alluded too
  • I mean you can list them here if you'd like
  • "The device on your head must siphon energy from the very air"
  • k
  • k
  • k
  • Karnak states that he should very likely have a flaw but he can't pick it up.
@Newendigo

  • Purposely having machinery to overload mechanical objects is tech manipulation IMO, by your logic the only instances of tech manipulation is just Hacking through various means
  • Weird I thought I listed it as fire manip
  • Producing significant enough heat to melt objects is notable enough to be listed, and as such it's better to list it under Heat Manipulation
 
Tech:

"The ability to alter and control technology, often exercised through the usage of other powers, such as manipulating electricity, informatio, magnetism, and metals, or just hacking."

"This does not refer to the ability to simply operate technology, no matter how advanced, but the power to influence and manipulate it on a deeper, often supernatural level, though, rather than some magical aspect, it may be achieved through sufficiently advanced technology."

If just operating technology alone is not enough to get the power, then something as just affecting it (Like through a overload or drain) should be less accountable.

Heat:

"is the ability to manipulate the thermal energy of oneself or the environment. While other abilities, such as Fire Manipulation and Ice Manipulation, may affect the temperature of one's surroundings, this ability refers to having direct control of temperature and heat for any number of purposes."

I recommend you to read our pages before including the powers.
 
Operating technology is not in any way comparable to overloading tech with specific devices for this purpose, it's far too mundane, that's a strawman if anything. Your logic is "If punching someone and damaging their biology can't get you biological manipulation then causing bruises without physical contact can't get you biological manipulation either". Again, how are you not defining a variant of Hacking again?

"This ability refers to having direct control of temperature and heat", having objects and weaponry capable of raising heat enough to melt objects as their express purpose is a direct control in a limited terminology.

Listing that as "Fire Manipulation" is massively wrong, so.

I recommend sounding less harsh too, so.
 
Before anything I would need to make threads for the following things

  • Is disrupting tech=Technology Manipulation? That should be clarified in the page. (As I see it, it should be the power, but I could be wrong)
  • I would very much like the Attack Reflection page to have a note saying that natural bounces of attacks (like bullets, Energy Projection, etc.) do not count as the power.
  • Instinctive Reaction...I always disliked the page due to claiming that you need to react to/dodge oncoming attacks to have the power, which is stupid, anything without thought is the power. A more reasonable mistake are the users trying to apply the power based on poetic language in fiction, which logically people in real life do too without referring to that power.
I'm gonna do that first because I believe that would create a better process on everything. I know the forum change will kill this thread soon but everything in it can be copied in a blog of notes, and everything accepted can be added. Also I face the face the last 2 points too often and accepted the first one as Tech Manip many times before.
 
What Eficiente has accepted can probably mostly be applied. The Black Widow does not have shapeshifting technology though, just holographic disguises.
 
Also, I think that we should rewrite the Weapon Mastery description to say "far greater skill than the average person" rather than just "greater skill than the average person".
 
Not necessarily, generally having a better skill is worth noting in profiles too, as say, a character with police training being a better marksman than a regular guy is something relevant regardless in a debate setting.

Most profiles tend to reword Weapon Mastery to fit the page as "capable marksman" or "military training" anyhow, so it's not exactly likely that people are misusing the term of mastery, we're just leading to a poorer representation of a character's capabilities in a vs debate setting
 
Well, by my experience, the ability is listed for lots of characters that are just somewhat skilled as well. It would be good if we put a stop to that, as it stems from a misunderstanding of our intentions, due to that it isn't hard at all to simply be more skilled than average.
 
But for indexing purposes and practicality, we shouldn't really even exclude "somewhat skilled" from the listings as well.
 
I am just concerned that our members currently largely seem to think that anybody who has taken a few lessons in handling a sword or handgun now has "Weapon Mastery". It sounds like an exaggeration.
 
We can make a note within the page to instruct users to specify properly what feats result in the character getting Weapon Mastery, and to rename the ability suitably for the level of these feats within the profiles.

Again, while I do agree with you on that the term "Mastery" is too high a term to just randomly apply, that's moreso the fault of the page rather than the users who apply it.

On my own pages I tend to change the term to "Capable Marksman", we can do something similiar.

Honestly it might sound ridiculous, but we can frankly split the Weapon Mastery, Martial Arts, Vehicular Mastery and Stealth Mastery into "Types" so that we can get a better understanding of the degree of mastery these characters may have, and set up a baseline of competence. So let's say having professional training on certain weaponry may alot you a Type 1, but having Bullseye level mastery might alot to a Type "insert highest rating here", that'll properly address the competence of a character in a given field more effectively.
 
I do not mind if the pages in question get internal lists that define different degrees of proficiency. They would have to be worded and defined properly though.
 
Anyhow this is derailing to the current topics within the thread, we can make a thread for it after the forum shift

@Efi Can you respond to my refutations?
 
Okay. I would appreciate if you make a note of it for later.
 
What is left to do here?

You can also ask Eficiente for help via his message wall.
 
Zark2099 said:
@Efi
  • "These Old Imperion Airships just needed a little tinkering" for the first scan. "So Dane, are you still the weapon aficianado as you claim to be?" Strange is clearly there for a second opinion so why would he go to a guy who knows nothing? Wording what he did forces me to write not one, but 4 other technologies as well since he made the power lance and the horses as well.
  • The user can only pull it off with the blade
  • Likely for blatant feats? It has no antifeats here...
  • Weak points are a layman term for pressure points, aren't they?
  • Eh, it's still acting as a proof of instinctive reactions, there are statements of her "doing things as she's not even thinking about them" so it's very definitely alluded too
  • I mean you can list them here if you'd like
  • "The device on your head must siphon energy from the very air"
  • Karnak states that he should very likely have a flaw but he can't pick it up.
Click to expand...


  • Idk if he did the tinkering but if so then a little of it doesn't seem notable. He knows weapons but nothings shows he knows about magical weaponry.
  • No I meant the user is the one who time travels, yes it's done due to the blade. The wording makes it seen as if the blade is time traveling.
  • It doesn't need to have antifeats, it's a matter of consistency too.
  • Idk
  • I still disagree, sorry.
  • It's not that she explicitly uses OE things but a lot of things we never see her normally have.
  • Ok then. That too.
  • I think that the last part inticates he doesn't have a flaw but he will?
 
  • Well then can I list it as "Knowledgeable on weaponry"? He has other feats too, of making his own mechanical flying horses
  • Eh, k, I'll make not of that
  • Consistency isn't contradicted, a blade which slashes can be presumed to have a far higher AP
  • Well I consider them to be
  • k
  • I think we can assume the stuff inbuilt on the widow bite and guns as SE, rest as OE?
  • k
  • It states that Karnak fears the day he does find a flaw there. Not that he will eventually detect a flaw
 
What has been accepted above can probably be applied then.
 
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