Marvel Comics: High 3-A Heralds Upgrade

[Excellence616]

All High 3-A Heralds should be upgraded to Low 1-C.

Feat:

• Eric (Thunderstrike) clash with Dargo Ktor (Future Thor) unleashed mystical energy across all planes of existence, and fully powered a machine that could collapse infinite timelines into one (Mighty Thor Vol 1 #438) two in one feat
• Thor spins Mjolnir and matches Bill spinning Stormbreaker on Earth, creating a vortex to overpower the cosmic storms surrounding Asgard, sending its army back home (Mighty Thor #359)
• Thor spins Mjolnir to conquer the cosmic storms between Asgard and Midgard under his own power (Mighty Thor #373)
• Thor created a storm so powerful that its winds reached the Earth from Asgard (Thor Vol 1 #188)
• Thor and Hercules threatened to destroy the heavens (Heavens in this context is Olympus) (Thor: Blood Oath #3)
• Thor wrestled with the World-Serpent while it was bridging the gap between Asgard and the Earth with its length. (Thor Vol. 1 #327)
• Note: The God realms are noted to be 5-D or higher and the length between Asgard and Midgard is spaced apart by an infinite distance
• Hiro-Kala can creates a field of Old Power powerful enough to cover the distance between two universes, blocking the Enigma Force from being used. (Incredible Hulks- Enigma Force #1)

Supporting Feats:

• Hercules claimed to have enough power to shake the universe (Thor v1 130)
• The Hulk's power is capable of ravaging Worlds (Incredible Hulk Vol 1 #300)
• Thor shakes the heavens (Thor Vol.1 #161)
• Thor and Odin rendered the heavens asunder. (Thor: Man of War)
• The Power between Thor and Hercules' fists is enough to demolish world (Avengers Vol 1 #100)

Agree[3, ]: @Yokoahh5743 @ObberGobb @HenshinIntervention

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Entity]

There is also another feat in Incredible Vol 1 #305 where Hulk and Ironclad's clash spreads across all the infinite dimensions in the crossroads

 

[Excellence616]

There is also another feat in Incredible Vol 1 #305 where Hulk and Ironclad's clash spreads across all the infinite dimensions in the crossroads

That feat is high 1-b because of the dimensions that are connected to the Crossroads

 

[Yokoahh5743]

Looks fine

 

[ObberGobb]

I agree

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Wholly agree, the Heralds should be upgraded to 2-A

 

[Eseseso]

Following.

I will note that Asgard is noted to be 5-D or higher, and that most of the other supporting feats seem to just be High 3-A, with the only exception being the 2-C feat of Hiro-Kala.

 

[Excellence616]

Following.

I will note that Asgard is noted to be 5-D or higher, and that most of the other supporting feats seem to just be High 3-A, with the only exception being the 2-C feat of Hiro-Kala.

The Midgard Serpent feat can be regarded as 5-D?

 

[ObberGobb]

Does anyone know of any other 2-A feats for Heralds? Its unfortunate that this one seems to be alone here. There are a bunch of High 3-A feats, and even a bunch of High 1-B to 1-A feats (once my Yggdrasil thread is done), but there seems to be very few Tier 2 ones.

 

[Eseseso]

The Midgard Serpent feat can be regarded as 5-D?

If there are no anti-feats for the Thor feats, then probably.

 

[Excellence616]

If there are no anti-feats for the Thor feats, then probably.

So Low 1-C?

 

[LordTracer]

None of the supporting feats really support a 2-A rating, they all seem to hover around High 3-A/Low 2-C. I’m gonna need a lot more than that to sign off on such a massive upgrade for so many characters.

 

[Excellence616]

None of the supporting feats really support a 2-A rating, they all seem to hover around High 3-A/Low 2-C. I’m gonna need a lot more than that to sign off on such a massive upgrade for so many characters.

• Eric (Thunderstrike) clash with Dargo Ktor (Future Thor) unleashed mystical energy across all planes of existence, and fully powered a machine that could collapse infinite timelines into one (Mighty Thor Vol 1 #438) two in one feat
• Thor spins Mjolnir and matches Bill spinning Stormbreaker on Earth, creating a vortex to overpower the cosmic storms surrounding Asgard, sending its army back home (Mighty Thor #359)
• Thor spins Mjolnir to conquer the cosmic storms between Asgard and Midgard under his own power (Mighty Thor #373)
• Thor created a storm so powerful that its winds reached the Earth from Asgard (Thor Vol 1 #188)
• Thor and Hercules threatened to destroy the heavens (Heavens in this context is Olympus) (Thor: Blood Oath #3)
• Thor wrestled with the World-Serpent while it was bridging the gap between Asgard and the Earth with its length. (Thor Vol. 1 #327)
• Note: The God realms are noted to be 5-D or higher and the length between Asgard and Midgard is spaced apart by an infinite distance
• Hiro-Kala can creates a field of Old Power powerful enough to cover the distance between two universes, blocking the Enigma Force from being used. (Incredible Hulks- Enigma Force #1)

Are they enough?

 

[Eseseso]

So Low 1-C?

Yes but the OP should list why Asgard is at least 5-D (like the justifications from the God Physiology page for HDE).

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

So Low 1-C?

Looking forward to a Thor vs Kratos matchup if that upgrade happens

 

[Eseseso]

Looking forward to a Thor vs Kratos matchup if that upgrade happens

Marvel smurfiness goes brr, sadly.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Marvel smurfiness goes brr, sadly.

The fact that so many people are unironically 1-A smurfs but just haven't been revised to be so is crazy lol

Anyways. A good bit of these need more context to determine what high-end can be used for them, because words like 'worlds' , heavens, and others alone without context isn't good enough sadly. However the ones I see though:

• The Heavens needs more context to determine if it's a 2-A or above feat. Definitely can see it tho if it's the Heavens I'm thinking of, as in Atlas' feat of lifting the Heavens in Marvel Lore
• The two universes feat is literally 1-A so... (which unironically would be backed up by Silver Surfer facing down Griever for over ten minutes in a stalemate, which... we're not getting into... like at all)

 

[ObberGobb]

"The heavens" might be 1-A. At least, Atlas while lifting them is. Atlas is the Axis Mundi, which is the Greek manifestation of Yggdrasil. That, to me, implies that maybe "the heavens" encompass all that Yggdrasil does.

 

[Excellence616]

Okay.
About the Silver Surfer feat, I already removed them.

As for Heavens, in the context of Atlas and Hercules, Atlas is the Axis Mundi which is Yggdrasil in Greek. The Axis Mundi is located at the center which is also were Atlas is serving his punishment. In the context of Hercules vs Thor since no reference to Axis Mundi was made, it is just Olympus as Realm (God Realm like Asgard). Just similar to how we treat universes in Marvel, it can either be 1-A or Low 2-C depending on the context.

 

[ObberGobb]

Low 1-C seems fairly consistent. My one worry is who scales.

So with my Yggdrasil thread we've established that Thor and Hercules can comfortably scale to Yggdrasil (1-A), as we accept that the full power of gods can be above the power they use in the mortal realm. That at least is our excuse for characters like Silver Surfer not scaling to it.

Should that same logic apply with these Low 1-C feats? If not, should it even apply to their 1-A feats? Are there feats that imply Silver Surfer-level Heralds can scale to Low 1-C even if they don't scale to 1-A, or should just everyone scale to 1-A?

And where does this leave the different "levels" of Heralds? While there is at least some in-universe logic for God Heralds scaling to 1-A but not others, as far as I know that same logic is not present for splitting off 3-C Heralds.

I agree with the proposal, but we need to have a conclusive decision made on what exactly Herald Tier even is.

 

[Excellence616]

Low 1-C seems fairly consistent. My one worry is who scales.

Only High 3-As

So with my Yggdrasil thread we've established that Thor and Hercules can comfortably scale to Yggdrasil (1-A), as we accept that the full power of gods can be above the power they use in the mortal realm. That at least is our excuse for characters like Silver Surfer not scaling to it.

He has some feat to scale to 1-A as @The_2nd_Existential_Seed brought some up.

Should that same logic apply with these Low 1-C feats? If not, should it even apply to their 1-A feats? Are there feats that imply Silver Surfer-level Heralds can scale to Low 1-C even if they don't scale to 1-A, or should just everyone scale to 1-A?

And where does this leave the different "levels" of Heralds? While there is at least some in-universe logic for God Heralds scaling to 1-A but not others, as far as I know that same logic is not present for splitting off 3-C Heralds.

The logic we use for Heralds especially the heroic ones is, either they vary in power or they are holding back their power. The likes of Thanos, Galactus (Starving) are villains and consistently proven that they scales to Heralds at their peak Heralds.


So for heralds, the logic we use is either they: Varying, Holding back and becoming weakened when entering mortal realm (for Hercules, Thor and the rest of the other Gods who are herald level).



I am planning a revision that would downgrade and upgrade some of the High 3-A and 3-C based on consistency and varying because i have seen heralds scaling to were they aren't suppose to scale.

 

[Xavis10]

I believe Low 1-C is the maximum rating the current High 3-A heralds should have, and even then I'm skeptical about it applying to many other than the top tier ones, like it was discussed here.

1-A seems like a bit of a stretch to me, do they transcend dimensionality as a whole?

 

[Excellence616]

I believe Low 1-C is the maximum rating the current High 3-A heralds should have, and even then I'm skeptical about it applying to many other than the top tier ones, like it was discussed here.

Exactly.

1-A seems like a bit of a stretch to me, do they transcend dimensionality as a whole?

No one is scaling to 1-A

 

[Xavis10]

No one is scaling to 1-A

My mistake, I misinterpreted somewhere along the line of heralds scaling to Hercules and Thor at peak. Sorry about that.

 

[Excellence616]

My mistake, I misinterpreted somewhere along the line of heralds scaling to Hercules and Thor at peak. Sorry about that.

No problem

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Agree.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Oh. Um, I'm going to suggest something. Silver Surfer is consistently referred to as being a fraction of Galactus' power, and if Galactus is Tier 1 then the Heralds could downscale from him.

So, looking back at the 'Agamotto vs Galactus' fight (Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #43), Doctor Strange very much doubted he could survive the aftereffects of the fight between Galactus and Agomotto long enough to do what he needed to do. Keep in mind he is usually confident he can last against beings like Dormammu and the like, and we know he very much can based on his several fights against him even in his Dark Dimension, so him having such extreme doubt should speak volumes and likely would upgrade him.

Agomotto also was shown as capable of fighting a Wolverine and Daniel with the combined powers of Doctor Strange and several others, which straight up confirms that he's above Doctor Strange (New Avengers #5 & #6 for context. Context even revealed during #6 that Agomotto was even weakened during this fight as he was banished).

So, Agomotto, someone comparable to Galactus, should be straight up above Doctor Strange in every regard, which means Heralds, being a fraction of Galactus' strength, wouldnt be infinitely weaker than he is.

Also, one last thing. Galactus wasn't sufficiently fed when he fought In-Betweener. He just came back from near death.