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Marvel Comics: High 3-A Heralds Upgrade

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Excellence616

Excellence616

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All High 3-A Heralds should be upgraded to Low 1-C.

Feat:
Supporting Feats:
Hellords and Gods like Odin and Zeus would scale.

Also, since Thor wrestled with the World-Serpent and the World Serpent encompass Asgard (5-D) to Midgard, High 3-A herald would also be Immeasurable Lifting Strength (5-D).

vsbattles.fandom.com

Excellence616/List Of Marvel Heralds Characters

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Agree[4, 12]: @ActuallySpaceMan42 @FinePoint @Theglassman12 @Elizhaa @Yokoahh5743 @ObberGobb @HenshinIntervention @Milly_Rocking_Bandit @Tomfer @Eseseso @VeryGoofyToddler2 @GoldenVortex94 @MadeByZiggy @Ser_Hakim_Dayne @HenshinIntervention @Apex_Predator_GX

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
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There is also another feat in Incredible Vol 1 #305 where Hulk and Ironclad's clash spreads across all the infinite dimensions in the crossroads
 
Does anyone know of any other 2-A feats for Heralds? Its unfortunate that this one seems to be alone here. There are a bunch of High 3-A feats, and even a bunch of High 1-B to 1-A feats (once my Yggdrasil thread is done), but there seems to be very few Tier 2 ones.
 
Eseseso said:
Marvel smurfiness goes brr, sadly.
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The fact that so many people are unironically 1-A smurfs but just haven't been revised to be so is crazy lol

Anyways. A good bit of these need more context to determine what high-end can be used for them, because words like 'worlds' , heavens, and others alone without context isn't good enough sadly. However the ones I see though:
  • The Heavens needs more context to determine if it's a 2-A or above feat. Definitely can see it tho if it's the Heavens I'm thinking of, as in Atlas' feat of lifting the Heavens in Marvel Lore
  • The two universes feat is literally 1-A so... (which unironically would be backed up by Silver Surfer facing down Griever for over ten minutes in a stalemate, which... we're not getting into... like at all)
 
"The heavens" might be 1-A. At least, Atlas while lifting them is. Atlas is the Axis Mundi, which is the Greek manifestation of Yggdrasil. That, to me, implies that maybe "the heavens" encompass all that Yggdrasil does.
 
Okay.
About the Silver Surfer feat, I already removed them.

As for Heavens, in the context of Atlas and Hercules, Atlas is the Axis Mundi which is Yggdrasil in Greek. The Axis Mundi is located at the center which is also were Atlas is serving his punishment. In the context of Hercules vs Thor since no reference to Axis Mundi was made, it is just Olympus as Realm (God Realm like Asgard). Just similar to how we treat universes in Marvel, it can either be 1-A or Low 2-C depending on the context.
 
Low 1-C seems fairly consistent. My one worry is who scales.

So with my Yggdrasil thread we've established that Thor and Hercules can comfortably scale to Yggdrasil (1-A), as we accept that the full power of gods can be above the power they use in the mortal realm. That at least is our excuse for characters like Silver Surfer not scaling to it.

Should that same logic apply with these Low 1-C feats? If not, should it even apply to their 1-A feats? Are there feats that imply Silver Surfer-level Heralds can scale to Low 1-C even if they don't scale to 1-A, or should just everyone scale to 1-A?

And where does this leave the different "levels" of Heralds? While there is at least some in-universe logic for God Heralds scaling to 1-A but not others, as far as I know that same logic is not present for splitting off 3-C Heralds.

I agree with the proposal, but we need to have a conclusive decision made on what exactly Herald Tier even is.
 
ObberGobb said:
Low 1-C seems fairly consistent. My one worry is who scales.
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Only High 3-As
ObberGobb said:
So with my Yggdrasil thread we've established that Thor and Hercules can comfortably scale to Yggdrasil (1-A), as we accept that the full power of gods can be above the power they use in the mortal realm. That at least is our excuse for characters like Silver Surfer not scaling to it.
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He has some feat to scale to 1-A as @The_2nd_Existential_Seed brought some up.
ObberGobb said:
Should that same logic apply with these Low 1-C feats? If not, should it even apply to their 1-A feats? Are there feats that imply Silver Surfer-level Heralds can scale to Low 1-C even if they don't scale to 1-A, or should just everyone scale to 1-A?
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ObberGobb said:
And where does this leave the different "levels" of Heralds? While there is at least some in-universe logic for God Heralds scaling to 1-A but not others, as far as I know that same logic is not present for splitting off 3-C Heralds.
Click to expand...
The logic we use for Heralds especially the heroic ones is, either they vary in power or they are holding back their power. The likes of Thanos, Galactus (Starving) are villains and consistently proven that they scales to Heralds at their peak Heralds.


So for heralds, the logic we use is either they: Varying, Holding back and becoming weakened when entering mortal realm (for Hercules, Thor and the rest of the other Gods who are herald level).



I am planning a revision that would downgrade and upgrade some of the High 3-A and 3-C based on consistency and varying because i have seen heralds scaling to were they aren't suppose to scale.
 
I believe Low 1-C is the maximum rating the current High 3-A heralds should have, and even then I'm skeptical about it applying to many other than the top tier ones, like it was discussed here.

1-A seems like a bit of a stretch to me, do they transcend dimensionality as a whole?
 
Xavis10 said:
I believe Low 1-C is the maximum rating the current High 3-A heralds should have, and even then I'm skeptical about it applying to many other than the top tier ones, like it was discussed here.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
Xavis10 said:
1-A seems like a bit of a stretch to me, do they transcend dimensionality as a whole?
Click to expand...
No one is scaling to 1-A
 
Oh. Um, I'm going to suggest something. Silver Surfer is consistently referred to as being a fraction of Galactus' power, and if Galactus is Tier 1 then the Heralds could downscale from him.

So, looking back at the 'Agamotto vs Galactus' fight (Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #43), Doctor Strange very much doubted he could survive the aftereffects of the fight between Galactus and Agomotto long enough to do what he needed to do. Keep in mind he is usually confident he can last against beings like Dormammu and the like, and we know he very much can based on his several fights against him even in his Dark Dimension, so him having such extreme doubt should speak volumes and likely would upgrade him.

Agomotto also was shown as capable of fighting a Wolverine and Daniel with the combined powers of Doctor Strange and several others, which straight up confirms that he's above Doctor Strange (New Avengers #5 & #6 for context. Context even revealed during #6 that Agomotto was even weakened during this fight as he was banished).

So, Agomotto, someone comparable to Galactus, should be straight up above Doctor Strange in every regard, which means Heralds, being a fraction of Galactus' strength, wouldnt be infinitely weaker than he is.

Also, one last thing. Galactus wasn't sufficiently fed when he fought In-Betweener. He just came back from near death.
 
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The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Oh. Um, I'm going to suggest something. Silver Surfer is consistently referred to as being a fraction of Galactus' power, and if Galactus is Tier 1 then the Heralds could downscale from him.

So, looking back at the 'Agamotto vs Galactus' fight (Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #43), Doctor Strange very much doubted he could survive the aftereffects of the fight between Galactus and Agomotto long enough to do what he needed to do. Keep in mind he is usually confident he can last against beings like Dormammu and the like, and we know he very much can based on his several fights against him even in his Dark Dimension, so him having such extreme doubt should speak volumes and likely would upgrade him.

Agomotto also was shown as capable of fighting a Wolverine and Daniel with the combined powers of Doctor Strange and several others, which straight up confirms that he's above Doctor Strange (New Avengers #5 & #6 for context. Context even revealed during #6 that Agomotto was even weakened during this fight as he was banished).

So, Agomotto, someone comparable to Galactus, should be straight up above Doctor Strange in every regard, which means Heralds, being a fraction of Galactus' strength, wouldnt be infinitely weaker than he is.

Also, one last thing. Galactus wasn't sufficiently fed when he fought In-Betweener. He just came back from near death.
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Heralds being 1-A is a big stretch of which I don't support. And "if" I want to place heralds at that level, it might be for Surfer
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I had planned to do something like this but kept putting it off, and now I guess I won't be doing it at all.
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If there is anything you can add, please do. It would be very helpful🙏🙏
ObberGobb said:
Do you want to do anything with those feats and add a 1-A end to Silver Surfer's profile?

Other than that, that all sounds good.
Click to expand...
Maybe but not now. I am also planning on Speed revision for Heralds too, so if anyone has more 1-A feats for Silver Surfer, they should message me.(y)
 
So basically the proposal for now is to keep things the same, but High 3-A becomes Low 1-C?

Personally I don't like having the 3-C split, but if we are going to keep it, I'd like a clear explanation on the verse page and all the relevant character profiles for why they are Low Herald vs High Herald.

Generally I think the verse page needs a revision anyway with all the huge scaling overhaul recently
 
ObberGobb said:
So basically the proposal for now is to keep things the same, but High 3-A becomes Low 1-C?
Click to expand...
Yep.
ObberGobb said:
Personally I don't like having the 3-C split, but if we are going to keep it, I'd like a clear explanation on the verse page and all the relevant character profiles for why they are Low Herald vs High Herald.
Click to expand...
I also have same thought to give an explanation on the verse page about heralds power levels
ObberGobb said:
Generally I think the verse page needs a revision anyway with all the huge scaling overhaul recently
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Fr, since some exception of herald going above their normal power levels
 
Excellence616 said:
Supporting Feats:
Click to expand...
I may have found another supporting feat during one of my readings (Thor: The Trial of Thor):
 
Is Asgard and other realms consistently treated as being beyond the time-space to render a 5D rating?

If the distance between Midgard and Asgard is infinite then how does that supplement 5D? That's simply an additional space of 4D.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Is Asgard and other realms consistently treated as being beyond the time-space to render a 5D rating?
Click to expand...
According to the God physiology page, yes:
The God Realms, such as Olympus and Asgard, are all mystic dimensions, with mystic realms all being a place where "time is unpredictable", and Asgard has been stated many times to be beyond and outside of time and space. The Overvoid of the Egyptian gods is beyond space and time.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/God_Physiology_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-8">[8</a>
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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