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Well, it isn't as inconsistent, but, for example, Captain America, who was barely able to stop a helicopter, was also able to damage Iron Man, and the matchups should recurrently be far more uneven than they are.
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Marvel Cinematic Universe: Thor's Sokovia Feat
- Thread starter Caesar_Wolfman
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This is Superman I assume?Natse said:
Had that been the case, jetfighters would have supersonic reflexes.Caesar Wolfman said:
He wasn't given the chance to probably. That and Ultron is vibranium and the force would've been sent outward. Which would I think support why Thor went with a small, steady stream of lightning to melt him instead of blasting him with one big attack. Besides, Thor was probably aware of the civilians in Thor2, I mean Jane and Selvig were trying to get people to evacuate and the civilians were more concerned of having something cool to post on facebook. Lastly, I don't think anyone would scale to Thor's charged attack. He has never come close to using this much power in any other showing.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Cap can be sent flying too even with the shield. Doesn't change the fact that the shield can disperse force outward.Natse said:
If Thor hitting it after a jump can drop trees down like bowling pins, imagine how much collateral damage it would take if he hit it with what he hit Sokovia's vibranium core.
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Simple Solution, because it's fiction. You can point out so many situations where characters could have clearly done something better like when Quicksilver could've grabbed Hawkeye and that child and moved them out of the way.Matthew Schroeder said:
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The thing is, this blow shouldn't impact any kind of power-scaling because Thor has never used it before or since. Therefore, it's just its own thing.Antvasima said:
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Thor has mostly 9-A+ to 8-C feats with the destruction of the bifrost bridge being 8-A.On the other hand Sokovia's destruction is 236033 times more powerful than the destruction of the bridge (and a few million times stronger than 99% of the top tier feats).How can you not even consider the possibility of this being an outlier.
MCU is inconsistent when it comes to Iron Man who could fight Thor as an almost equal while still losing to Cap and his armors getting destroyed by a speeding truck.
MCU is inconsistent when it comes to Iron Man who could fight Thor as an almost equal while still losing to Cap and his armors getting destroyed by a speeding truck.
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Let's wait until Matthew, Gemmy and Ceasar respond.
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I agree with this 100%Kkapoios said:
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Considering he's never really used that much firepower when he knows for sure that there's someone that'd get fried to death nearby, when he doesn't need it or just can't use it for reasons, I think it could be, but Kkapoios does have a point.
The attack being 236033 times stronger than the next strongest thing is quite large. Maybe this can be used later on, once the power creep catches up enough, but not now, I suppose.
So yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with Ant. It's an outlier for now.
The attack being 236033 times stronger than the next strongest thing is quite large. Maybe this can be used later on, once the power creep catches up enough, but not now, I suppose.
So yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with Ant. It's an outlier for now.
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By the way.
From what I can gather from Doctor Strange movie promo, a single sorcerer / Master of Mystic Arts > The Avengers.
From what I can gather from Doctor Strange movie promo, a single sorcerer / Master of Mystic Arts > The Avengers.
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@Kkapoios
I did explicitly point out why the destruction of the bridge is actually quite potent in itself, if the Bifrost was able to channel city-destroying energy without fail, even when it was heavily cracked, and the energy it was channeling was enough to cause such a massive explosion, and Thor not only cracked, but shattered the Bifrost, then the energy in that strike had to be enough to overcome the incredibly stable and durable material the Bifrost was made from. It's likely not as high as the Sokovia feat, but it doesn't have to be when you take into account the fact the Sokovia feat was amped, and it was a very specific scenario that channeled the entirety of Thor's blow into the exact spot it needed to be as opposed to letting energy escape, all of these together should make it much more feasible.
From where I stand, all of these things together should mean it's not an outlier. Heavily amped and very situational, yes, but the force Thor put into that blast would be repeatedable, albeit it would not get the same result without the same situation.
I did explicitly point out why the destruction of the bridge is actually quite potent in itself, if the Bifrost was able to channel city-destroying energy without fail, even when it was heavily cracked, and the energy it was channeling was enough to cause such a massive explosion, and Thor not only cracked, but shattered the Bifrost, then the energy in that strike had to be enough to overcome the incredibly stable and durable material the Bifrost was made from. It's likely not as high as the Sokovia feat, but it doesn't have to be when you take into account the fact the Sokovia feat was amped, and it was a very specific scenario that channeled the entirety of Thor's blow into the exact spot it needed to be as opposed to letting energy escape, all of these together should make it much more feasible.
From where I stand, all of these things together should mean it's not an outlier. Heavily amped and very situational, yes, but the force Thor put into that blast would be repeatedable, albeit it would not get the same result without the same situation.
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If 7-B is too high for the Sokovia feat, I would like to offer the compromise of 7-C, or Town Level, since we know-via Friday's Statements-that without the heat seal, Thor would've only cracked Sokovia, meaning that with just his force alone with a single strike he wouldn't have been able to bust the city and too much energy would've escaped to make it city-busting.
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@Gemmysaur
That's what it looks like, but based on the destruction its causing on Jotunheim it is, from my perspective, likely to be higher
That's what it looks like, but based on the destruction its causing on Jotunheim it is, from my perspective, likely to be higher
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You don't really explain why the bridge is City level, you just state it like it is some kind of fact.
Thor could barely crack it with 5 hits from Mjolnir and the explosion was the energy of the bridge that became unstable and exploded, the explosion wasn't Thor's work.
And you don't need to have the same energy as the bridge to destroy it.Take for example a cord that transfers electrical energy, the power it transfers may be 3500 Watts but in order to cut it you may only need 100 Joules.There are different types of energies and each material reacts differently to them.
Thor could barely crack it with 5 hits from Mjolnir and the explosion was the energy of the bridge that became unstable and exploded, the explosion wasn't Thor's work.
And you don't need to have the same energy as the bridge to destroy it.Take for example a cord that transfers electrical energy, the power it transfers may be 3500 Watts but in order to cut it you may only need 100 Joules.There are different types of energies and each material reacts differently to them.
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@Kkapoios
I actually fully explained, the blast we see when it strikes Jotumheim is enveloping an area much larger the MCB level, upwards towards city level, in under a second. Therefore, the energy the bridge must be channeling, and it's ability to handle that energy need to be in the same range.
I never claimed the explosion was Thor's work, only the destruction of the bridge.
Thor didn't cut it, he used blunt force, and that's with a flexible cord made of flimsy flexible metal, this is a crystilline bridge that is able to channel energy what seems to be city-destroying without shattering. The two behave very differently from one another and you're trying to compare something much weaker to something we know is much stronger.
Containing and channeling raw energy requires a lot of durability, by your example, if you run too much electricity through a circuit it will catch on fire and could potentially just snap outright. Whereas larger cables such as telephone cables are able to channel far more energy than a simple power cord and require far more energy to snap them. When slightly damaged cordsusually can't even properly channel that energy anymore, and this bridge was able to channel its energy just fine when it had a nice crack in it. There were no signs of it stopping until it was no longer able to contain its energy.
I actually fully explained, the blast we see when it strikes Jotumheim is enveloping an area much larger the MCB level, upwards towards city level, in under a second. Therefore, the energy the bridge must be channeling, and it's ability to handle that energy need to be in the same range.
I never claimed the explosion was Thor's work, only the destruction of the bridge.
Thor didn't cut it, he used blunt force, and that's with a flexible cord made of flimsy flexible metal, this is a crystilline bridge that is able to channel energy what seems to be city-destroying without shattering. The two behave very differently from one another and you're trying to compare something much weaker to something we know is much stronger.
Containing and channeling raw energy requires a lot of durability, by your example, if you run too much electricity through a circuit it will catch on fire and could potentially just snap outright. Whereas larger cables such as telephone cables are able to channel far more energy than a simple power cord and require far more energy to snap them. When slightly damaged cordsusually can't even properly channel that energy anymore, and this bridge was able to channel its energy just fine when it had a nice crack in it. There were no signs of it stopping until it was no longer able to contain its energy.
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Feats for Sorcerers before the movie is even out:
Kevin Feige explained in an interview that the reason they never intervened in any of the movies so far was that the threats were too small . Though I really doubt the whole "All of reality will be wiped out" line, since the movie very clearly has a human villain and takes place primarely on Earth. Maybe for a sequel they can reach cosmicl evels.
In the prequel comics:
A single amped sorceress quickly covers London with a dark cloud.
Four sorcerers defeat her, later on.
The Ancient One manages to react to magic arrows that crossed hundreds of meters within seconds.
Combine that with the Spatial Manipulation and Soul Manipulation that they have showcased in trailers, and you'll get a very powerful character
So yes, MCU Doctor Strange hasn't even come out and he already vastly outclasses the Avengers.
Kevin Feige explained in an interview that the reason they never intervened in any of the movies so far was that the threats were too small . Though I really doubt the whole "All of reality will be wiped out" line, since the movie very clearly has a human villain and takes place primarely on Earth. Maybe for a sequel they can reach cosmicl evels.
In the prequel comics:
A single amped sorceress quickly covers London with a dark cloud.
Four sorcerers defeat her, later on.
The Ancient One manages to react to magic arrows that crossed hundreds of meters within seconds.
Combine that with the Spatial Manipulation and Soul Manipulation that they have showcased in trailers, and you'll get a very powerful character
So yes, MCU Doctor Strange hasn't even come out and he already vastly outclasses the Avengers.
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So your point is that since it is enveloping the city then it has to be City level though it doesn't seem to have any direct effect while also ignoring the fact that a field can have infinite area of effect.
The bridge was destroyed by the explosion that was caused by the energy inside it, the only thing Thor did was crack it a bit (and each hit could barely leave a small crack on the bridge).
You are missing the point, a gave an example that disproved your statement.And you try to counter act by saying that there are better cords?
The bridge was destroyed by the explosion that was caused by the energy inside it, the only thing Thor did was crack it a bit (and each hit could barely leave a small crack on the bridge).
You are missing the point, a gave an example that disproved your statement.And you try to counter act by saying that there are better cords?
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No, not enveloping, we see it destroying the area of a city in around a second or so.
And cracking it is incredibly difficult on its own. He also didn't two-hand Mjolnir in that scenario, nor did he try to amp his blow with lightning.
No, I got the point, my point is the more energy something has, the more durable it usually is. You used the example of cords, so I kept on that example. If you have a chunk of rock that contains the same power as the sun, it won't break like any chunk of rock because it's capable of containing the power of a star. That is a simple fact.
And cracking it is incredibly difficult on its own. He also didn't two-hand Mjolnir in that scenario, nor did he try to amp his blow with lightning.
No, I got the point, my point is the more energy something has, the more durable it usually is. You used the example of cords, so I kept on that example. If you have a chunk of rock that contains the same power as the sun, it won't break like any chunk of rock because it's capable of containing the power of a star. That is a simple fact.
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Bro do you even physics?
1.When did that happen again?Cause i don't remember it.Do you have a video?
2.So if Thor uses two hands then his strikes are 260000 times more powerful.
3.The durability of an object is the result of the bonds between the molecules, more energy means weaker bonds, since matter "wants" to be in the most stable position aka the one with the less energy.That's why when a nuclear bond (fussion) is created ╬│ radiation is emitted.If you were to put the energy of the sun inside a rock the rock would be turned into quark-gluon plasma.
1.When did that happen again?Cause i don't remember it.Do you have a video?
2.So if Thor uses two hands then his strikes are 260000 times more powerful.
3.The durability of an object is the result of the bonds between the molecules, more energy means weaker bonds, since matter "wants" to be in the most stable position aka the one with the less energy.That's why when a nuclear bond (fussion) is created ╬│ radiation is emitted.If you were to put the energy of the sun inside a rock the rock would be turned into quark-gluon plasma.
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@Kkapoios
You don't want to start a physics argument with me, trust me.
1. When Loki tried to destroy Jotunheim, we see the Bifrost shoot down and start ripping the planet apart. Unfortunately there's nothing on YouTube, I have the DVD right in front of me, but I can't exactly point you to it, unless you want a timestamp.
2. There's no need to be an asshole about it, using two hands significantly increases your power. Pick up a sledgehammer, hit something with one hand, then two. There's a significant difference. Especially when you're Thor. I gave you multiple reasons that the power of Sokovia's strike is far more reasonable than you're making it out to be. If you want to nitpick my argument, that only shows you have no actual ground to stand on.
3. You're avoiding my point, if there were a rock capable of holding it, that means the bonds are still strong enough to keep the rock from breaking apart. If you have something-like the Bifrost-that are capable of maintaining their bonds without melting when they have insane amounts of power channeling through them, then clearly their bonds are stronger than normal bonds, and their bonds are capable of taking a lot more energy. The bifrost doesn't even get hot, it just lights up in pretty colors, which means the bonds aren't even close to breaking in that bridge. If that's the case, then the bridge is incredibly stable and its bonds are incredibly hard to break. Enough so that city-busting energy doesn't phase it.
You don't want to start a physics argument with me, trust me.
1. When Loki tried to destroy Jotunheim, we see the Bifrost shoot down and start ripping the planet apart. Unfortunately there's nothing on YouTube, I have the DVD right in front of me, but I can't exactly point you to it, unless you want a timestamp.
2. There's no need to be an asshole about it, using two hands significantly increases your power. Pick up a sledgehammer, hit something with one hand, then two. There's a significant difference. Especially when you're Thor. I gave you multiple reasons that the power of Sokovia's strike is far more reasonable than you're making it out to be. If you want to nitpick my argument, that only shows you have no actual ground to stand on.
3. You're avoiding my point, if there were a rock capable of holding it, that means the bonds are still strong enough to keep the rock from breaking apart. If you have something-like the Bifrost-that are capable of maintaining their bonds without melting when they have insane amounts of power channeling through them, then clearly their bonds are stronger than normal bonds, and their bonds are capable of taking a lot more energy. The bifrost doesn't even get hot, it just lights up in pretty colors, which means the bonds aren't even close to breaking in that bridge. If that's the case, then the bridge is incredibly stable and its bonds are incredibly hard to break. Enough so that city-busting energy doesn't phase it.
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@antvasima
This is true, but you can't really apply that logic to everything, especially when thus far, powerful objects in the MCU haven't been shown to be that incredibly weak. I highly doubt it was a shock and awe effect.
This is true, but you can't really apply that logic to everything, especially when thus far, powerful objects in the MCU haven't been shown to be that incredibly weak. I highly doubt it was a shock and awe effect.
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1.I don't remember the city getting destroyed by the bridge (which doesn't make sense) so we are going to need evidence for such claims.
2.Of course two hands are better than one but ones strength only multiplies by 2 when using 2 hands instead of one.
3.Sorry i misread the sentace, i though you said that the rock had the power of the sun, not that that the rock could contain the power of the sun.But the energy inside the bridge was MCB level and Thor is ranked MCB level.
2.Of course two hands are better than one but ones strength only multiplies by 2 when using 2 hands instead of one.
3.Sorry i misread the sentace, i though you said that the rock had the power of the sun, not that that the rock could contain the power of the sun.But the energy inside the bridge was MCB level and Thor is ranked MCB level.
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"You don't want to start a physics argument with me, trust me."
Well i study physics so even if you know more than me then i'll still gain knowledge from our argument.
Well i study physics so even if you know more than me then i'll still gain knowledge from our argument.
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1. I can't just magic up a video, Loki activated the Bifrost and blasted the Jotunheim with the intension of ripping it apart, then locked it into place. It did happen and if you want I'll go through the movie and find you the timestamp, and I'll keep looking for a video online, but not much else I can do.
2. Actually, when you use two hands you gain not only the benefits of a single arm, but of using your entire body to strike down into it, you move your legs into it more, you gain a better balance and stance for striking with more power, etc... no it shouldn't bring it a hundred thousand times up, but it will still make a difference, a very significant one if need be.
3. This part of our discussion will only be driven forward if I can find the video evidence or point you to the timestamp and you can watch it yourself
@antvasima Honestly I can't stand Marvel's current direction, I find it incredibly pandering and unecessary. Way too many characters that exist only to make their sect of society look good.
2. Actually, when you use two hands you gain not only the benefits of a single arm, but of using your entire body to strike down into it, you move your legs into it more, you gain a better balance and stance for striking with more power, etc... no it shouldn't bring it a hundred thousand times up, but it will still make a difference, a very significant one if need be.
3. This part of our discussion will only be driven forward if I can find the video evidence or point you to the timestamp and you can watch it yourself
@antvasima Honestly I can't stand Marvel's current direction, I find it incredibly pandering and unecessary. Way too many characters that exist only to make their sect of society look good.
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I'll rewatch the movie and get some screenshots if possible.
