Marvel: Big Yggdrasil Downgrade, Skyfather Upgrades, and Thor Revisions

[ObberGobb]

Part One: Yggdrasil and Those Who Scale​

Right now, Yggdrasil is scaled to High 1-A based on this panel, showing it encompassing the Living Tribunal. I have a big problem with this, as I do not think this scaling is at all narratively implied. It is a huge outlier that is never brought up or implied again. It should be entirely dropped. For new Yggdrasil scaling:

Yggdrasil is "everything" and has "roots and branches in all that is." It is also stated to exist across all planes of reality. This means that it be at least High 1-B due to encompassing all of Earth-616's realms. Furthermore, it has been stated to encompass of the Multiverse's timelines. This is supported by the fact that when the Enchantress wounded Yggdrasil with her magic, it threatened to destroy all realities. These means that beyond just scaling to the size of Earth-616, this would scale to all realities in the multiverse. This makes it a 1-A structure.

Proposal #1: Scale Yggdrasil to 1-A due to being connected to all realities across the multiverse

There are many feats of scaling to Yggdrasil:

1. Thor pushed the Worldengine, explicitly fighting against the full power of both the engine and Yggdrasil itself
2. Thor shattered the root of Yggdrasil
3. Thor defeated MYTHOS, who had the full power of Yggdrasil
4. Baby Thor shook all of Yggdrasil every time he cried
5. Enchantress' magic almost killed Yggdrasil had Thor not intervened
6. Storm created a storm around Yggdrasil that threatened to tear it asunder
7. Atlas lifts the Heavens, being spiritually linked to the Axis Mundi. The Axis Mundi takes a different form for each pantheon, with Yggdrasil being the Norse form. Hercules at one point lifted the heavens in Atlas' place.
8. With the Odinsword, Thor split the World Tree in twain
9. Surtur's flame burned all of Yggdrasil, and Odin was powerful enough to negate them

Supporting feats:

1. Hela and Mephisto fighting would cause omniversal armageddon beyond Ragnarok
2. Odin and others are stated in Marvel: Absolutely Everything You Need To Know to be able to destroy and recreate the Multiverse
3. Eric Masterson and Dargo Ktor clashing unleashed mystical energy across all planes of existence, and fully powered a machine that would collapse infinite timelines into one (Timelines in Marvel are entire realities, and thus this should theoretically scale to an infinite number of realities)
4. Galactus, Scrier, and Other fighting would have destroyed all universes (We know that in this context, "universe" does indeed mean "reality," as Oblivion compares it to what the Chaos King intended on doing. However, this does not scale the feat to Chaos King's level, as Oblivion was merely saying that this would succeed at destroying all universes where Chaos King failed. He is not saying that this would mean High 1-A levels of destruction, as the only stated effects are all universes, with the power to do that not requiring Chaos King levels of power. However, I have been told that if the DeMatteis cosmology split happens then this feat likely won't be useable)
5. Odin's fight against Seth tore at the fabric of the Multiverse (This is accepted as just High 1-B, but I think should be higher as it shows levels of power affecting the multiverse and not just Odin's reality)

These feats further indicate that characters of this tier of power can affect the all realities in the multiverse, not just 616

Proposal #2: The peaks of Thor, Loki, Enchantress, and Storm should be whatever tier Earth-616 becomes (Likely 1-A after @Eseseso's thread). By scaling above these characters, and scaling to his own feat, Odin (and by extension all Skyfather and Hell Lord tier characters) should scale to this too.

Part Two: Fixing Thor and Other Heralds Too​

Thor's profile has some big issues. There are way too many tiers listed on his profile and most of them don't need to be there.

"High 3-A at peak" — No he isn't. Why does it say that? The key lists several more tiers beyond High 3-A so clearly its not his peak. High 3-A should just be treated as his normal level of power: not holding back, and not pushing himself to his limits.

"higher with Thermo-Blast" — I think this is a bit unnecessary. Yes it is more powerful, but it is just more words cluttering the key without conveying necessary information. Thor is also stronger with Warrior's Madness, two Mjolnirs, and Megingjörð but we don't list any of those because it is redundant. This should be dropped, and in his High 3-A justification just add an explanation that this is stronger than his normal attacks.

"High 1-B to Low 1-A with the God Blast" — If Proposal #2 is accepted, then this can simply be cut to 1-A.

"High 1-A via his inner life-essence" — I already covered High 1-A being done away with, but my other issue is the wording. "Inner life-essence" isn't really treated as a thing in-story. At least, not as special of a thing as this tiering suggests. Many of the examples shown don't really have anything to do with an inner life essence, they just show him going beyond his limits, which isn't exactly a unique trait for fantasy heroes. This wording should be dropped entirely.

Backscaling from Herald Thor's High 1-A God Blast — Herald of None is pretty clearly a huge powerup, so it doesn't make sense at all for any feat done in a powerup form to backscale to weaker forms. I don't understand why this is on the profile, I don't think I've ever seen any other powerup treated this way. Unless we have explicit confirmation otherwise, powerups like this should be assumed to empower every stat of the character in question.

Proposal #3: Thor's first key should be simplified to "High 3-A normally, up to 1-A at peak and with God Blast." It is much easier to read, conveys the information more efficiently, and doesn't result in insane scaling like baby Thor being stronger than the Living Tribunal. High 1-A should be dropped from Odinforce key, and that key should be changed from High 1-B to 1-A.

Thor's peak should scale to both his aforementioned Yggdrasil feats, and to some feats that scale him to Skyfathers and Hell Lords:

1. Thor vs. Hela, Thor outright physically overpowers Hela, but this is implied to be his peak because Hela says she has not seem him this strong before.
2. Thor vs. Hela 2, Hela says Thor is too fierce a fighter for her, so she needs to use hax to defeat him
3. Thor vs. Mephisto, Thor defeats Mephisto by dunking him in lava and then hardening it
4. Thor vs. Mephisto 2, Thor fights Mephisto who says that neither of them can defeat the other
5. Thor hurt The Glory, a being with the power of an entire Pantheon
6. Thor fought Zeus, and while he did lose, Zeus said that he resisted him stronger than any of the Titans or Olympians
7. Thor briefly fought the manifestation of the Odinforce, which had been drained from Odin (Much less impressive than the others, but I figured still worth noting)
8. Odin seems to have felt the need to wear the Destroyer Armor and wield the Twilight Sword when confronting Thor's rampage (Thor got stomped, but I feel its noteworthy that Odin decided to amp himself)
9. Thor briefly fought Surtur, being able to cause him pain and survive Surtur's attack. with Surtur complimenting his strength and implying that he made him feel more pain than he has felt since he first fought Odin

Summary:​

Proposal #1: Scale Yggdrasil to either High 1-B, Low 1-A, or 1-A due to being connected to all realities across the multiverse

Proposal #2: The peaks of Thor, Loki, Enchantress, and Storm should scale to that tier. By scaling above these characters, and scaling to his own feat, Odin (and by extension all Skyfather and Hell Lord tier characters) should scale to that tier too. Thor's peak is based both on his own Yggdrasil feats, and on scaling to Skyfathers and Hell Lords.

Proposal #3: Thor's first key should be simplified to "High 3-A normally, up to 1-A at peak and with God Blast." It is much easier to read, conveys the information more efficiently, and doesn't result in insanely scaling like baby Thor being stronger than the Living Tribunal.

Votes:​

Agree: @ByAsura, @MarvelFanatic119 (Unsure on Enchantress), @Eseseso (Unsure on Enchantress), @Excellence616 (Disagree on Enchantress), @The_2nd_Existential_Seed (5)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Eseseso]

1. Low 1-A Ygg is fine.

2. Not sure how Loki and Enchantress scale to Low 1-A Yggdrasil, but peak Thor and Storm scaling is fine (though Storm also has her own High 1-A feat against the Dominions IIRC).

3. Odin and all Skyfathers & Hell Lords scaling is fine.

4. Proposals 3 and 4 look good.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I think the 3-C was supposed to be used to scale "friendly" Thor the one we see on Avenger's comics and other appearances in solo runs, while the other tiers are regarding Thor solo on his "cosmic side", there are many characters scaling to 3-C including Hulk. On the other hand I think the High 3-A is useless and wouldn't change much of anything since Hulk and Hercules have their own High 3-A statements.
I think the 3-C is necessary. As for Baby Thor and the phoenix force stuff he only realized he had it in Jason Aaron Avengers

 

[Excellence616]

Every proposal are fine but

Part Two: Fixing Thor and Other Heralds Too
Thor's profile has some big issues. There are way too many tiers listed on his profile and most of them don't need to be there.

"3-C normally" This is unnecessary. There is no in-universe indication that characters like Gladiator, Blue Marvel, or Jane Foster Thor are infinitely below other Heralds like Thor and Silver Surfer. In fact, they are pretty explicitly stated multiple times that they are intended to be on the same level. This rating is arbitrary, and is redundant with the 5-B rating, where characters scaling to someone like Thor are given 5-B, 3-C, or High 3-A really just based on vibes. For instance, Black Bolt is 3-C due to scaling to Thanos (who is High 3-A) and Silver Surfer's full power. This makes no sense. The confusion around the tier split has also created inconsistencies, where Loki's 5-B and Gladiator's 3-C both use scaling to Eric Masterson as justification.

Proposal #3: Every 3-C character should be given flat out High 3-A. If there are any who were barely given 3-C, then perhaps downgrade them to 5-B. Any character with both 3-C and High 3-A, should drop the 3-C.

Honestly, there are some Heralds that don't deserve their High 3-A and few their 3-C due to Inconsistency, Outlier, "Holding Back" and majorly due to no one revising their profiles. Not every 3-Cs should bump to High 3-A.

The 3-C should stay since that is a level that most High Heralds (SS, Hulk, Thor, Sentry) operates when holding back and besides Thor, Jane, SS, Hulk and Hercules have their own High 3-A and 3-C feats.

So this part of the thread should wait, I want to sort out those Heralds.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Every proposal are fine but

Honestly, there are some Heralds that don't deserve their High 3-A and few their 3-C due to Inconsistency, Outlier, "Holding Back" and majorly due to no one revising their profiles. Not every 3-Cs should bump to High 3-A.

The 3-C should stay since that is a level that most High Heralds (SS, Hulk, Thor, Sentry) operates when holding back and besides Thor, Jane, SS, Hulk and Hercules have their own High 3-A and 3-C feats.

So this part of the thread should wait, I want to sort out those Heralds.

Are you suggesting something like:

Low heralds: 5-B
Mid heralds: 3-C
High heralds: High 3-A?

 

[Excellence616]

Are you suggesting something like:

Low heralds: 5-B
Mid heralds: 3-C
High heralds: High 3-A?

Exactly

 

[ObberGobb]

Every proposal are fine but

Honestly, there are some Heralds that don't deserve their High 3-A and few their 3-C due to Inconsistency, Outlier, "Holding Back" and majorly due to no one revising their profiles. Not every 3-Cs should bump to High 3-A.

The 3-C should stay since that is a level that most High Heralds (SS, Hulk, Thor, Sentry) operates when holding back and besides Thor, Jane, SS, Hulk and Hercules have their own High 3-A and 3-C feats.

So this part of the thread should wait, I want to sort out those Heralds.

Ok, I'll drop the 3-C part. What wording do you think it should have then? Because High 3-A shouldn't be "at peak." Maybe like "Varies up to 3-C when holding back, High 3-A normally, Low 1-A at peak?" Or just drop the 3-C from High 3-A characters and just have it be for characters who scale to 3-C?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Are you suggesting something like:

Low heralds: 5-B
Mid heralds: 3-C
High heralds: High 3-A?

God no, 5-B is basically the scaling for every single character that is above street level, there are so many 5-B's and all of them scaling to a single calc it's horrible. There needs to be a gap between heralds and street tiers which right now is 3-C

 

[Excellence616]

Ok, I'll drop the 3-C part. What wording do you think it should have then? Because High 3-A shouldn't be "at peak." Maybe like "Varies up to 3-C when holding back, High 3-A normally, Low 1-A at peak?" Or just drop the 3-C from High 3-A characters and just have it be for characters who scale to 3-C?

3-C up to High 3-A, High 1-B or Low 1-A (depending on what's accepted) at peak and with God Blast

 

[Excellence616]

God no, 5-B is basically the scaling for every single character that is above street level, there are so many 5-B's and all of them scaling to a single calc it's horrible. There needs to be a gap between heralds and street tiers which right now is 3-C

I think the 5-B should stay also. Someone like the Thing, majority of the Hulks/gamma mutates, Human Torch, etc who are always equal to Base Hulk and stomped by Hulk as he gets getting angry needs 5-B.

I would handle them. All 5-Bs, 3-Cs, and High 3-A

 

[ObberGobb]

Also look at Iron Man. He is shown to be on-par with, or even above, Thing and Namor, but at the same time explicitly far below Thor and angry Hulk.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I think the 5-B should stay also. Someone like the Thing, majority of the Hulks/gamma mutates, Human Torch, etc who are always equal to Base Hulk and stomped by Hulk as he gets getting angry needs 5-B.

I would handle them. All 5-Bs, 3-Cs, and High 3-A

Base Hulk already scales higher than 5-B since the current 5-B calc was from Grey Hulk and obviously green hulk scales above him even in base. Characters who currently scale to 3-C are characters that have a huge gap with other 5-B's but are not Thor or Herald level which is necessary, one big example is strabrand who was playing around with an entire team of avengers full of high tiers like Thor, Hulk and Hyperion.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Unrelated, but I noticed that one of the scans for the God Blast on Thor's profile shows Jane using it

Is there a particular reason this isn't reflected on her profile? Or was it simply overlooked?

 

[Excellence616]

Unrelated, but I noticed that one of the scans for the God Blast on Thor's profile shows Jane using it. Is there a reason this isn't reflected on her profile or was it simply overlooked?

No prove to show that her God blast is as powerful as Thor's own since she is roughly comparable to Thor.

 

[LordTracer]

I don’t have many thoughts for most of the thread, because I don’t do Tier 1 shit, but I wanted to give my thoughts on this specifically:

up to 3-C when holding back

Don’t do this.

“holding back stats” should not be indexed on a character’s page. Put a note at the bottom of the page saying that the character holds back, or put that in their Standard Tactics section, but don’t give them specific stats for when they’re holding back, and especially don’t slap that stat on every character that fights them while holding back.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I don’t have many thoughts for most of the thread, because I don’t do Tier 1 shit, but I wanted to give my thoughts on this specifically:

Don’t do this.

“holding back stats” should not be indexed on a character’s page. Put a note at the bottom of the page saying that the character holds back, or put that in their Standard Tactics section, but don’t give them specific stats for when they’re holding back, and especially don’t slap that stat on every character that fights them while holding back.

We already have the note and scaling to Thor is been avoided for a while now unless they are specifically stated to be equals, anyways the "holding back stat" of 3-C is for when he is with the avengers outside of his cosmic stories where he fights cosmic entities and above

 

[Excellence616]

Base Hulk already scales higher than 5-B since the current 5-B calc was from Grey Hulk and obviously green hulk scales above him even in base.

Characters who currently scale to 3-C are characters that have a huge gap with other 5-B's but are not Thor or Herald level which is necessary,

one big example is strabrand who was playing around with an entire team of avengers full of high tiers like Thor, Hulk and Hyperion.

Green Hulk and Grey Hulk scales above them but to an unquantifiable extent and Starbrand is definitely Herald level.

Looking at this comment again :

there are so many 5-B's and all of them scaling to a single calc it's horrible

Well, there are some feat and statement for 5-B

There needs to be a gap between heralds and street tiers which right now is 3-C

The street tiers are 9-B to 7-B either scaling from their feats or each other which is far below 5-B. No street tiers would scale to 5-B, if there a any, i would do something about them.


But what your solution for 5-Bs since they can't just scale to 3-C.

 

[LordTracer]

We already have the note and scaling to Thor is been avoided for a while now unless they are specifically stated to be equals, anyways the "holding back stat" of 3-C is for when he is with the avengers outside of his cosmic stories where he fights cosmic entities and above

Yes, I’m well aware of what the profiles are like, and the scaling practices (I was here when the holding back ratings were first implemented). I’m saying that Thor, Surfer, etc shouldn’t have a “holding back stat” at all. If someone fights a holding back character, that shouldn’t be an excuse to just slap a 5-B or 3-C rating on them.

 

[Excellence616]

Yes, I’m well aware of what the profiles are like, and the scaling practices (I was here when the holding back ratings were first implemented). I’m saying that Thor, Surfer, etc shouldn’t have a “holding back stat” at all. If someone fights a holding back character, that shouldn’t be an excuse to just slap a 5-B or 3-C rating on them.

What should we do if they fought a holding back character?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Green Hulk and Grey Hulk scales above them but to an unquantifiable extent and Starbrand is definitely Herald level.

Yes but a significant extent. And I don't remember Starbrand having feats with Heralds or being stated to be on that level, and his profile his not really good right now, so if 3-C is dropped then he would go 5-B.

Looking at this comment again :

Well, there are some feat and statement for 5-B

I know there must be a lot of planet destruction statements and possible even feats but none of them have a calc.

The street tiers are 9-B to 7-B either scaling from their feats or each other which is far below 5-B. No street tiers would scale to 5-B, if there a any, i would do something about them.

I'm not talking about street levels scaling to 5-B, I'm talking about characters scaling to 5-B being on the same level of characters that are massively stronger than them, for example imagine cyclops blasts being "herald level", it's already really hard to believe cyclops is scaling on the same level as Grey hulk.

But what your solution for 5-Bs since they can't just scale to 3-C.

I'm not trying to schange 5-B's I'm saying we need a middle tier between 5-B's and Herald level which would be like H3-A or tier 2, right now that middle ground is 3-C but if 3-C disappear then it's gonna be really messed up.

Yes, I’m well aware of what the profiles are like, and the scaling practices (I was here when the holding back ratings were first implemented). I’m saying that Thor, Surfer, etc shouldn’t have a “holding back stat” at all. If someone fights a holding back character, that shouldn’t be an excuse to just slap a 5-B or 3-C rating on them.

The problem is consistency, Thor on his solo runs consistently fights cosmic entities and even abstracts but when he is written on the avengers he is usually having an hard time with characters that are galaxy and bellow level threats constantly, creating 2 levels of consistency and decide what level to keep him at is hard.

 

[Eseseso]

What about those like Daimon Hellstrom, who is listed as "5-B, 3-C at peak" (even though he scales to an angry Hulk according to the page)?

 

[LordTracer]

What should we do if they fought a holding back character?

Scale the character to their own feats and other scaling. Fighting a holding back Thor, Surfer, etc. should only be used as supporting evidence for whatever scaling they already have. To use Hyperion as an example: he’s fought a holding back Thor, but he has planet destroying statements of his own, and he’s fought other characters on that level like The Thing, so he would get a 5-B rating.

If fighting a holding back character is the only scaling they have, like Midnight Sun’s second key for example, then put them at Unknown.

 

[Excellence616]

I'm not talking about street levels scaling to 5-B, I'm talking about characters scaling to 5-B being on the same level of characters that are massively stronger than them, for example imagine cyclops blasts being "herald level", it's already really hard to believe cyclops is scaling on the same level as Grey hulk.

I'm not trying to schange 5-B's I'm saying we need a middle tier between 5-B's and Herald level which would be like H3-A or tier 2, right now that middle ground is 3-C but if 3-C disappear then it's gonna be really messed up.

What of At least 5-B, far higher or 5-B, possibly/Likely 3-C?

Scale the character to their own feats and other scaling. Fighting a holding back Thor, Surfer, etc. should only be used as supporting evidence for whatever scaling they already have. To use Hyperion as an example: he’s fought a holding back Thor, but he has planet destroying statements of his own, and he’s fought other characters on that level like The Thing, so he would get a 5-B rating.

If fighting a holding back character is the only scaling they have, like Midnight Sun’s second key for example, then put them at Unknown.

Good point.

 

[ObberGobb]

The 5-B/3-C thing seems to be controversial enough that it should have its own CRT

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

What of At least 5-B, far higher or 5-B, possibly/Likely 3-C?

We already have that, already have 5-B's who scale higher than others and keep scaling higher in big chains because like 50% Marvel characters ends up in the 5-B area and how would they scale "likely/possibly to 3-C" if Thor drops his 3-C being him the only 3-C calc?

The 5-B/3-C thing seems to be controversial enough that it should have its own CRT

A lot of people care for the street levels and the god tiers but characters in the mid level like 5-Bs up to 3-Cs no one gived a crap, just recently the speed tiers for mids were absolutely messed up because they were forgotten and their ratings never updated, a lot of those mids profile's are bad with lack of references and scans ect. If it's gonna have it's own CRT better be someone willing to deal with a lot of outdated profiles

 

[ObberGobb]

Once we are done here, I'm willing to help out whoever wants to tackle 5-B/3-C stuff

 

[Excellence616]

We already have that, already have 5-B's who scale higher than others and keep scaling higher in big chains because like 50% Marvel characters ends up in the 5-B area and how would they scale "likely/possibly to 3-C" if Thor drops his 3-C being him the only 3-C calc?

The 3-C won't be dropped. I would be upgrading and downgrading some 3-C and High 3-A. So for now, we should leave the herald part.

Once we are done here, I'm willing to help out whoever wants to tackle 5-B/3-C stuff

I would be handling 5-B/3-C

 

[LordTracer]

What about those like Daimon Hellstrom, who is listed as "5-B, 3-C at peak" (even though he scales to an angry Hulk according to the page)?

Just looking at his justification, I feel like Daimon should just scale to full power Heralds.

The problem is consistency, Thor on his solo runs consistently fights cosmic entities and even abstracts but when he is written on the avengers he is usually having an hard time with characters that are galaxy and bellow level threats constantly, creating 2 levels of consistency and decide what level to keep him at is hard.

I reiterate: I know why the ratings are the way they are, I was there when they were implemented. That doesn’t really change what I’ve said. Thor, Surfer, Avenger Hyperion, they shouldn’t have ‘X while holding back’ on their profiles. They do hold back, I’m not refuting that, I’m saying they shouldn’t be listed in their AP section, and we shouldn’t have a set scale where we put every character who fights them while holding back.

If a character fights those characters while they’re holding back, then that can be acknowledged on that character’s profile, but they should be scaled to their own feats, see Sinister Hyperion again.

The 5-B/3-C thing seems to be controversial enough that it should have its own CRT

Honestly, yeah, it should have its own CRT.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I reiterate: I know why the ratings are the way they are, I was there when they were implemented. That doesn’t really change what I’ve said. Thor, Surfer, Avenger Hyperion, they shouldn’t have ‘X while holding back’ on their profiles. They do hold back, I’m not refuting that, I’m saying they shouldn’t be listed in their AP section, and we shouldn’t have a set scale where we put every character who fights them while holding back.

If a character fights those characters while they’re holding back, then that can be acknowledged on that character’s profile, but they should be scaled to their own feats, see Sinister Hyperion again.

That's great except most of them don't really have other feats to back them up or have really inconsistent fights with much higher or lower tiers, as I said they are mostly ,mid characters who don't really have people updating their profiles and so "the rule of lazy" made them scale to that

 

[LordTracer]

That's great except most of them don't really have other feats to back them up or have really inconsistent fights with much higher or lower tiers, as I said they are mostly ,mid characters who don't really have people updating their profiles and so "the rule of lazy" made them scale to that

If they don’t have other feats to scale them to, put them at Unknown or delete the profiles. Better that than to say “yeah sure they’re always holding back to 5-B or 3-C” and slap that rating on everyone who fights them while holding back.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

If they don’t have other feats to scale them to, put them at Unknown or delete the profiles. Better that than to say “yeah sure they’re always holding back to 5-B or 3-C” and slap that rating on everyone who fights them while holding back.

I think you know it's not that easy, scaling to Thor is very hard, the character needs to be implied to some extent to either fight on equal grounds with Thor or causing very significant damage and often still needs to be shown to be massively higher than 5-Bs or having fought Thor or Hulk on multiple occasions. The point is they aren't scaling to Thor simply because they punched him but they don't actually have tier 3 feats to support. Not just thor but Hulk and Silver surfer there are many characters scaling to them directly or indirectly.

 

[ObberGobb]

I've fully dropped 3-C stuff from the CRT since it will be getting its own discussion at some point

 

[ByAsura]

Agreed, especially due to the stuff we talked about before (like it literally being impossible for multiversal TLT to singularly manifest in one universe at one particular time, for example).

Though I think Storm might have different scaling due Dominions scaling to The Phoenix Force and Beyonders.

I would be handling 5-B/3-C

I'm willing to help.

 

[ObberGobb]

Agreed, especially due to the stuff we talked about before.

Every proposal are fine but

1. Low 1-A Ygg is fine.

2. Not sure how Loki and Enchantress scale to Low 1-A Yggdrasil, but peak Thor and Storm scaling is fine (though Storm also has her own High 1-A feat against the Dominions IIRC).

3. Odin and all Skyfathers & Hell Lords scaling is fine.

4. Proposals 3 and 4 look good.

@ByAsura, @Excellence616, @Eseseso, can I mark you three as "agree?"

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, at least for the most part. I don't particularly lean towards any one rating.

 

[Eseseso]

@ByAsura, @Excellence616, @Eseseso, can I mark you three as "agree?"

As long as what I noted was taken into account, sure.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Looking back at it, yeah it doesn't make sense for TLT to be stuck in Yggdrasil when he embodies the overall omniverse. I agree with the change to Low 1-A.

Not sure about the Enchantress and Loki scaling, but Skyfathers and Hell Lords being Low 1-A seems good.

Also fine with simplifying Thor's Tiering. It was always too messy IMO to read.

 

[ObberGobb]

What issues do you have with Enchantress scaling?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

What issues do you have with Enchantress scaling?

Just wondering how often she's portrayed to be this powerful at her peak is all. If she has more showings like this, I would be fine with her scaling then at peak.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Just wondering how often she's portrayed to be this powerful at her peak is all. If she has more showings like this, I would be fine with her scaling then at peak.

Enchantress is more of a glass canon. Her Magic can be that powerful as seen with the immortal thor run but it does not physically scale to her