Mario discussion 9.5:Forum's inside story

[Luckyfun]

Bump, i hope someone has interest discuss this thread.

 

[Luckyfun]

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[Luckyfun]

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[Imaginym]

Pesky forum not alerting me to new replies. What's on everyone's mind?

 

[Luckyfun]

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[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

It’s sad that the Mario-verse isn’t getting that much attention on the wiki and that I haven’t seen some of the Mario supporters on the wiki in months.

Wasn’t Mario supposed to get concept manip and stuff via his paint in color splash?

 

[Luckyfun]

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[Luckyfun]

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[Imaginym]

Has there been any recent Mario news?

 

[Luckyfun]

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[Imaginym]

Not an actual TAS, but it is pretty interesting & entertaining, IMHO. Profanity warning.

 

[Luckyfun]

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[Foxthefox1000]

Well with Mario Party Superstars confirming Mario characters from the main universe cross into Mario Party World and that they're all Canon perhaps the abilities shown in minigame can be compiled into a standard abilities list?

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Well with Mario Party Superstars confirming Mario characters from the main universe cross into Mario Party World and that they're all Canon perhaps the abilities shown in minigame can be compiled into a standard abilities list?

Could use more input on this cause this would potentially be a BIG update to the profiles of several characters

 

[Luckyfun]

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[Luckyfun]

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[Luckyfun]

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[Luckyfun]

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[Luckyfun]

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[Luckyfun]

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[Foxthefox1000]

I've got a good list of all the Mario Party feats and abilities from Blaze (DatOneWeeb). I may make some adjustments as well or add on anything I've found as well.

But I will say there's a bit less crazy shit going on in Mario Party than I thought there would be. A lot of repeating abilities too throughout the series, so in reality that true list for base abilities would be small and a lot of them we already have listed anyways.

It's only when we get to the very unique Mario Party features like the items used for Dice Rolls where things become a bit complicated. Items, Orbs, and Candies are where a lot of the good shit is but that would have to be listed as Optional Equipment.

Of course we're also gonna look through the other spin-offs for abilities as well

 

[Luckyfun]

Merry Christmas bump

 

[Luckyfun]

Bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

One notable Mario Party ability for Base cast is from Mario Party 9, where the characters can walk up to like a ball or something and then poof away and suddenly have control on the ball with their symbols and all. From the looks of it it's Possession for the cast of that game, which is actually pretty helpful for them.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

It truly is a shame that Mario isn’t getting that much attention on this cite anymore. I used to be a Mario fanatic and kept up with everything however I’m keeping up with multiple versus and other stuff that I don’t have the time anymore. However I’ll take a deep dive back into the Mario-verse if I ever get the chance.

But yeah, Mario Party feats should be applied to everyones base imo because of what foxthefox brought up. Was there a reason why Party feats weren’t applied anyway? And game’s such as Origami King need to be looked at because I think Mario had some reality warping stuff in that game. And of course, Color Splash NEEDS to be looked at for concept manip stuff.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I think MP stuff wasn't added out of the stigma of MP being canon or not. But now that Superstars confirms that it's both a separate world and also that the main cast travel to it via Warp Pipe which means it's all canon. Kinda weird though that we had MP feats listed but not abilities.

Though this also means normal minions now have even more canon feats across the entirety of MP showing they're comparable to the main cast. Mario really about to be like Marvel and DC where the fodder tiers have plentiful high showings but we just can't rate them higher because it would throw off everything.

I also wonder now if it being a Canon separate universe means anything for previous feats. If anything will change

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

I think MP stuff wasn't added out of the stigma of MP being canon or not. But now that Superstars confirms that it's both a separate world and also that the main cast travel to it via Warp Pipe which means it's all canon. Kinda weird though that we had MP feats listed but not abilities.

Though this also means normal minions now have even more canon feats across the entirety of MP showing they're comparable to the main cast. Mario really about to be like Marvel and DC where the fodder tiers have plentiful high showings but we just can't rate them higher because it would throw off everything.

Yeah I know it’s kinda controversial on what’s canon or not in the Mario-verse but I think it’s safe to say that the MP games are canon to mainline Mario with what’s shown in SuperStars. I know there’s a minigame where Mario and the gang out swim a black hole but I forget which game it’s from. But it would be good for putting together feats for Mario.

Honestly I don’t know if everyone would be on board but we could have a varied tier for the fodders possibly? But then again, it’s kinda hard to rate them in general.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Yeah they operate under the same rules as the main cast where they fit into any role Nintendo wants and it's all canon, which leads to the same inconsistencies Mario has where they are easily defeated and can't measure up to Mario at all and then other times where they're able to give Mario a good fight and even Bowser and other villains shown in the side-games for the M&L remakes.

I personally wouldn't be opposed but I know others definitely would be lol

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I think fodder should also get a "With Equipment" rating because most items Mario uses are able to harm bosses so naturally why would we assume the same items being used by fodder are weaker? Especially when power-ups also allow Goombas and all to take one hit from characters of Mario's tier usually. I think the Fake Bowsers that are just minions disguised also would scale too. Minions can also use Super Stars and Power Stars too iirc

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Yeah they operate under the same rules as the main cast where they fit into any role Nintendo wants and it's all canon, which leads to the same inconsistencies Mario has where they are easily defeated and can't measure up to Mario at all and then other times where they're able to give Mario a good fight and even Bowser and other villains shown in the side-games for the M&L remakes.

I personally wouldn't be opposed but I know others definitely would be lol

Yeah Mario itself is kinda a giant loop hole when it comes to canonical stuff but I personally think that most everything is canon except for things like Mario and Rabbids and crossover stuff.

I think fodder should also get a "With Equipment" rating because most items Mario uses are able to harm bosses so naturally why would we assume the same items being used by fodder are weaker? Especially when power-ups also allow Goombas and all to take one hit from characters of Mario's tier usually. I think the Fake Bowsers that are just minions disguised also would scale too. Minions can also use Super Stars and Power Stars too iirc

100% agree. Even Toad has a “higher with equipment” rating iirc and the smarter fodders try to use power ups and items to keep on par with Mario and power ups have been established to massively power up even characters on Mario’s level.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

3-C Goombas is gonna be fun if that actually got accepted (though personally I still think Low 2-C is okay, which if that stuck around would be even more hilarious)

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

3-C Goombas is gonna be fun if that actually got accepted (though personally I still think Low 2-C is okay, which if that stuck around would be even more hilarious)

That would be hilarious either way!

Kinda sad that Low 2-C Mario only lasted like 5 seconds and got a CRT to remove it. I remember we had feats like the King Olly feat, Rosalina resetting the universe, Bowser corrupting dreams, The SPM sammer kingdom destruction, Mario and Bowser scaling to the Grand Star, Wario and The Black Jewel feat, etc for universal feats.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Yeah for some reason Mario got hit hard by intense skepticism despite not being the worst offender of shaky stats on this site. The threads were filled with hypocrisy and circular arguments but more of the staff conjoined together for the event and so they were able to get their ways for a few of them. The Grand Star thread was terrible and I still disagree strongly with it. And after recently checking just what has been canonically referred to as "worlds" in the story and by characters usually the ones accessed via portals are actually universes. There's never been a world accessed via warping that hasn't been a whole universe. So I think the Paintings have more of an argument for being universes just by literally looking at every other example. And I still stand by the other World in Galaxy 2 being new universes.

A KH CRT is trying to upgrade them to Low 2-C with basically the same arguments I pointed out for the worlds in Galaxy 2. "A New Space/Universe" being blatant in Japanese along with accessing the new and unknown worlds (said by Lubba who should already have been through space and know it because he's traveled with Rosalina and on his own when Rosie literally has a map of the universe on her ship) via "dimensional doors" (similar kanji used for the doors in SPM) and crossing space-time. Literally has every set up for universal travel but that thread has been long ignored and faded into obscurity because I guess people couldn't handle my arguments.

I argued the Marioverse is a macroverse with multiple layered universes within the bigger structure. Which is supported by The Dream Depot in MP5 and literally everything implying it exists within that universe, even character statements contextually supporting it. You only use portals to enter the individual dreams themselves which ARE universes. Though we've been known that their universe Is a multiverse. Those "smaller" universes are still the same size as our universe

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I mean just think about it this way. You use a "dimensional door" to cross/surpass/transcend space-time and on the other side there are multiple galaxies and stars and planets. This character who's been through space with a lady who's already had a map of the universe flies out to observe as much of it as he can, seeing the many galaxies and exclaims it's "an entirely new world!"

Calling a place you had to cross space-time to get to filled with many galaxies a new and unknown world (and the file select if we do wanna use it saying it's a new universe in Japanese) to me supports the idea it's an entire new universe. And even the first game had a connection between "Grand Galaxy" (what Lubba calls them literally, but the translation and intention is to mean "world" according to fluent speakers) and Universe, as that's what the 'Universe Map" is called in Japanese.

Like idk what else I have to do. It seems we need extremely blatant sayings of "wow this is a universe!" despite other series having ratings relying on context that supports the rating argued.

But eh.

If this were to be accepted then Grand Stars (which have no anti-feats) would have whatever speed rating crossing universes is. Hell Bowser can already hop from Dream to Dream and swim around in the space of Dream Depot where these dream universes all swarm it. Assuming these dream bubbles contain these entire universes like we usually do isn't this a blatantly high speed feat too? Moving in a space between dreams that are themselves entire universes?

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Yeah for some reason Mario got hit hard by intense skepticism despite not being the worst offender of shaky stats on this site. The threads were filled with hypocrisy and circular arguments but more of the staff conjoined together for the event and so they were able to get their ways for a few of them. The Grand Star thread was terrible and I still disagree strongly with it. And after recently checking just what has been canonically referred to as "worlds" in the story and by characters usually the ones accessed via portals are actually universes. There's never been a world accessed via warping that hasn't been a whole universe. So I think the Paintings have more of an argument for being universes just by literally looking at every other example. And I still stand by the other World in Galaxy 2 being new universes.

A KH CRT is trying to upgrade them to Low 2-C with basically the same arguments I pointed out for the worlds in Galaxy 2. "A New Space/Universe" being blatant in Japanese along with accessing the new and unknown worlds (said by Lubba who should already have been through space and know it because he's traveled with Rosalina and on his own when Rosie literally has a map of the universe on her ship) via "dimensional doors" (similar kanji used for the doors in SPM) and crossing space-time. Literally has every set up for universal travel but that thread has been long ignored and faded into obscurity because I guess people couldn't handle my arguments.

I argued the Marioverse is a macroverse with multiple layered universes within the bigger structure. Which is supported by The Dream Depot in MP5 and literally everything implying it exists within that universe, even character statements contextually supporting it. You only use portals to enter the individual dreams themselves which ARE universes. Though we've been known that their universe Is a multiverse. Those "smaller" universes are still the same size as our universe

Yeah I try not to get to in the Mario CRTs unless it’s changing something EXTREMELY major because the Mario CRTs are always a skeptical, toxic, drawn out things that is hard to keep up with everything discussed. I will usually follow and watch the CRT though.

Yeah the Mario verse should be HUGE in terms of cosmology and universes. I do agree that the grand star is Low 2-C and I do think that whenever Mario 64 and Galaxy 2 talks about worlds they mean universes. And they transcend space and time to do these things and create dimensional doors. Why would you need to transcend space and time to go to a different world as in a planet or different place that’s not a universe? It would make more sense for worlds to equal universes. And Mario, Bowser, and more characters scales to the grand stars. So why was Low 2-C taken down?

There’s also the King Olly feat that hasn’t been properly addressed imo as he literally said that he was warped reality itself and talked about “worlds” iirc and Mario overpowered him. King Olly’s plan was to literally get rid of every Toad in existence and Toads exist throughout the universe and the punch hole literally punched the sun out of the sky meaning King Olly’s plan had to go outside of the planet. So basically, this is just further evidence that the King Olly feat is Low 2-C. And Sammer Kingdom is obviously a Low 2-C feat as well.

Plus everyone was trying to get rid of 2-B dreamy Bowser because the dream worlds =/= universes or something? From last I checked, dreams= universes based on MP5 and Dream Team and every living thing in the Mario verse has their own dream (Although I could be wrong on all this)

 

[Foxthefox1000]

People were trying to get rid of 2-B? That's pretty crazy. Pretty sure that's one of the most universally agreed upon ratings. Dreams definitely are universes at this point.

Also I don't see why Dimentio is Low 2-C but Mario isn't. Dimentio has no statements of holding back. He even acknowledges Luigi's strength. Yes, he was constantly testing the heroes, but all the examples of "toying" with the Heroes he's using something else to fight for him, catches people off-guard or when they're already weak, or uses his hax. His main attack is both hax and AP as it traps someone and then makes everything go kabloom within that. And even then this never actually killed anyone it was used on and you can tank it in-game too.

Based purely on physicals there's no evidence to suggest Dimentio is massively above the others and I will forever disagree with how he's treated. I love Dimentio but that doesn't sit right with me

If Dimentio can get "possibly Low 2-C" then so can Mario. Or just remove it altogether if we insist on no Tier 2 Mario

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

People were trying to get rid of 2-B? That's pretty crazy. Pretty sure that's one of the most universally agreed upon ratings. Dreams definitely are universes at this point.

Also I don't see why Dimentio is Low 2-C but Mario isn't. Dimentio has no statements of holding back. He even aconoledges Luigi's strength. Yes, he was constantly testing the hero's, but all the examples of toying" with the Heroes he's using something else to fight for him, catches people off-guard or when they're already weak, or uses his hax. His main attack is both hax and AP as it traps someone and then makes everything go kabloom within that. And even then this never actually killed anyone it was used on and you can tank it in-game too.

Based purely on physicals there's no evidence to suggest Dimentio is massively above the others and I will forever disagree with how he's treated. I love Dimentio but that doesn't sit right with me

If Dimentio can get "possibly Low 2-C" then so can Mario. Or just remove it altogether if we insist on no Tier 2 Mario

Yeah they tried to say that the dreams are dimensions and that they’re connected into 7 different dimensions and they aren’t universes or something like that. Most confusing thing I’ve ever seen in a Mario CRT and thankfully it died and nobody ever mentioned it again.

Completely agree on Dimentio. Dimentio had no reason to hold back and Mario and the gang were able to harm him. It just doesn’t make any sense that he has a possibly Low 2-C tier and Mario doesn’t. Also it’s HEAVILY implied that Dimentio created the Dark Prognosticus and it’s approved by the wiki to be a Low 2-C feat so it’s just another additional supporting Low 2-C feat for Mario sense he scales to Dimentio.

Also Dreamy Luigi defeated the Zeekeeper who is a 2-B. It might be considered an outlier but always baffled me that nobody brought it up.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Dreamy Luigi is a special form. It should be noted that Luigi should get Resistance to Dream Manipulation up to 2-B though for fighting off the Zeekeeper in his dreams.

What's more crazy to me is the fact Peach and Starlow and Antasma all easily broke the Stones which are apparently "made of countless universes" and then Mario and Luigi fight Dreamy Bowser in Base and also Antasma.

I mean probably outliers but still pretty crazy to me how effortlessly the feats were done.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Dreamy Luigi is a special form. It should be noted that Luigi should get Resistance to Dream Manipulation up to 2-B though for fighting off the Zeekeeper in his dreams.

What's more crazy to me is the fact Peach and Starlow and Antasma all easily broke the Stones which are apparently "made of countless universes" and then Mario and Luigi fight Dreamy Bowser in Base and also Antasma.

I mean probably outliers but still pretty crazy to me how effortlessly the feats were done.

Yeah it’s crazy that Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, and Starlow have consistent 2-B feats all of dream team. It’s unfortunately probably all outliers, but it’s just downright crazy how casually everything happened in that game.

Kind of another weird thing but should Luigi get a key for Dreamy Luigi sense it’s a special form? It could at least clear up a bit of confusion on Luigi beating Zeekeeper and doing many other things. Also Bowser fought on par with Dreamy Luigi as giant bowser in the bowser dream world. So Luigi would have a 2-B tier since he’s a powerful boi as dreamy Luigi.