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Mario CRT

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It definitively wasn't moving at MFTL speeds in World 1, we don't even know the speed of the ship prior to being Starship Mario.

It being moving doesn't mean it was at full speed, the same to charging, and Mario not being able to catch up to it is even more proof it doesn't scales
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
Kevyn only supports not scaling characters not from Super Mario Galaxy to the characters that appear in SMG. He also stated that he has no problems with MFTL+ Mario.
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I actually agree with him then, I would take only the SMG characters being MFTL while boosted by Young Master Luma, and Bowser while boosted by a Grand Star
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
Kevyn only supports not scaling characters not from Super Mario Galaxy to the characters that appear in SMG. He also stated that he has no problems with MFTL+ Mario.
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I actually agree with that notion, only smg characters should be mftl-mftl+.

But the problem is whether it's more than just travel speed, no one here actually explained how it's reactionary.
 
The ships casual speed would be MFTL due to it casually flying through space and galaxies. No one never said it flies at its top speed always. Also, reminder that if it got hit by the meteor, it would've definitely started to fall similar to a real plane. It apparently flies on its own as it can't move when it has no fuel.

The problem with that is whenever we see Bowser use the clown car, it's speed doesn't change when starting to fly and it's normal speed. It doesn't work like an actual plane regardless. Also, using this logic, dodging a character charging you won't scale because they need to build up speed.

Again with the Starship Mario not stalling to the original ship argument? Starship Mario did not make the ship faster, it only decorated it to look like Mario.
 
The Calc that it scales assumes so, also a Grand Star is necessary to move from world to world, so it can't fall there, also when flying through World 1 after it It definitively wasn't going at MFTL speeds, so it can fly slower than MFTL

It actualy doesn't, and the Koopa Clow car speed is definitively not the same, it took him around the same time to fly between galaxys and fly to the Sun, even If you play Mario Maker you need to fly a little before reaching it's top speed, and turning slows you down

Though I will agree for the galaxys characters being MFTL, like Mario with a Luma and Grand Star Bowser, like OP intended
 
Both If you guys have a point.

At lowest below mftl speeds and at highest probably mftl+

But I think we've covered that. Some of the debaters here have been trying to explain whether it's also reactionary or not.
 
Well, even though I was originally the one who proposed the move, I'm going to have to stay on the side of Cal, DRB and DDM as well (in part). It happens that the downgrades you are proposing here isn't what I was advocating a priori (do you use that term in English too? Idk).

Just to clarify, my most punctual remark was that absolutely everyone in the verse is being scaled to the feats of Super Mario Galaxy, and for me it sounds completely nonsense to put such figures as Toad and Toadette trillion xFTL and Donkey Kong galaxy level. Especially in the case of the DK, this immensely extrapolates anything he has already shown. We have to remember that DK and Mario, although they are the same universe, have been series apart for a long time, and DK has enough feats so that we don't need to do powerscaling with Mario, much less the deeds of Super Mario Galaxy.

To understand better, just note that Rosalina appears as a playable character in Super Mario 3D World, and in the middle of the gameplay, and we see no noticeable difference between her behavior and the behavior of the other characters in the game. Does that mean we should scale everyone to Rosalina? No, it doesn't. The characters can be on different levels, and nothing forces everyone in the universe to be exactly on the same level.

In short, I don't have the slightest problem with all Super Mario Galaxy characters being MFTL+. More than that, I don't see problem with characters from other games also being MFTL+, after all, there are also other games with feats of that level (although they don't come close to the magnitude of Super Mario Galaxy). My only problem is to put in the same level all the characters in the verse to that.
 
I actually agree with him then, I would take only the SMG characters being MFTL while boosted by Young Master Luma, and Bowser while boosted by a Grand Star

I actually agree with you, it's better than nothing
 
@Kevyn Okay ƒæî but can you show if they're more than just travel speed? People here have been claiming it's also reactionary, do you have something that can prove that?
 
Theuser789 said:
The Calc that it scales assumes so, also a Grand Star is necessary to move from world to world, so it can't fall there, also when flying through World 1 after it It definitively wasn't going at MFTL speeds, so it can fly slower than MFTL
It actualy doesn't, and the Koopa Clow car speed is definitively not the same, it took him around the same time to fly between galaxys and fly to the Sun, even If you play Mario Maker you need to fly a little before reaching it's top speed, and turning slows you down

Though I will agree for the galaxys characters being MFTL, like Mario with a Luma and Grand Star Bowser, like OP intended
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And what are Grand Stars used for? You guessed it. Fuel. Starship Mario had several power stars and Bowser took away all of them. Basically, get more fuel so you can actually move. It was flying at MFTL+ speed. It only didn't travel far because it needed more fuel.

And yet in several boss fights when the Clown Car is moving, it doesn't slow down when turning. Not scalling them is ridiculous at this point from the ammount of times Mario has fought people inside it.

Toad and Toadette should scale to Mario. Maybe not Galaxy, but several mainline games andownload spin-offs prove they're at least comparable. Toad is even considered faster than Mario.
 
No, the Grand Stars literaly open (16:45) portals, they never go into the ship. It can't move at MFTL speeds at World 1, which is the Earth's atmosphere

It's not ridiculous since the Koopa Clow car feat is pure travel speed of a vehicle, and the Koopa Clow car does have those characteristcs, and you brought Super Mario Maker in the debate
 
@Cal Don't ask obvious questions, of course I meant that they are separated by their own series.

As for being a Star Child, why would it mean that DK and Mario will have the same levels forever, regardless of their life trajectory being different? That is to greatly simplify the classification, Cal.
 
@Kevyn. My bad dude. I came off as ruder than intended with the rhetorical question. I edited my comment slightly which changes the meaning to be less snarky.

The point I was trying to make is that DK alongside the other 7 were born with the power of the stars, and we both know how powerful stars are in the series. DK was born with the same power and has demonstrated being superior physically to Mario, let alone Peach. The Rosalina thing is a bad analogy because the Low 2-C best girl goddess getting hurt by Bowser is an outlier.
 
It literally states that they have the power to take over the universe and says nothing about a universal constant.

Reference
Bowser: Still no clue where the stars are?!

Kamek: No, sir. But the crystal clearly says that the seven stars did fall during this time period. And I'm getting a strong reading that they are resting inside the hearts of the babies!

Bowser: And you're absolutely sure that these stars are powerful enough to take over the universe?

Kamek: No doubt about it, sir. The babies are called star children, and they each possess an extraordinary amount of power... And once they're in your royal hands, sir, the world is your oyster. Look into my crystal ball. Any star child will have a star hovering above it.

Bowser: No no no! None of these stupid kids have stars!
 
Don't take my words out of context. I didn't say that they were 3-A, did I? I'm saying that one, it is about power, and two, that the universal constant thing is bs.
 
There really isn't a necessary power to take over a universe, it doesn't mean all of them are at equal power

Especialy since they were babys at the time
 
The real cal howard said:
Don't take my words out of context. I didn't say that they were 3-A, did I? I'm saying that one, it is about power, and two, that the universal constant thing is bs.
Click to expand...
It does show they are a universal constant. Being children's of the Stars and "destined for greatness" is indeed a universal constant.
 
To me it just sounds like you two are willfully getting confused, conquering and universe rarely leads to tier 3 propositions unless that's the level of any potential adversaries.

Furthermore, is rather baseless to assume something without fundaments like an "universal constant" because someone is destined for greatness. That's a pretty common line for situations with a talented/gifted someone.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
To me it just sounds like you two are willfully getting confused, conquering and universe rarely leads to tier 3 propositions unless that's the level of any potential adversaries.

Furthermore, is rather baseless to assume something without fundaments like an "universal constant" because someone is destined for greatness. That's a pretty common line for situations with a talented/gifted someone.
Click to expand...
Well they have the power of Stars which is important as it shows they have a important place in the balance of the universe, "destined for greatness" is sort of tied in to that.
 
No one's Tier 3 is based on "conquering the universe"; Tier 3 comes from Lumas having the ability to transform into galaxies and also having the ability to transform into Power Stars and Grand Stars. And Grand Star Powered Bowser being able to give birth to entire galaxies; his Universal Black Hole is Low 2-C, but Mario defeating that is PIS. And also, we aren't quite saying Mario scales from the high end feats of the Power Stars, only that he at least scales from the lower to medium borders. Luma transformations range from Planet level to Star level to Large Star level to Galaxy level. There are also plenty of Tier 4 feats from the Power Stars in Mario 64. And on top of that, there are plenty of Tier 4 feats regularly performed by Mario characters in the Yoshi games. If even Baby Mario characters have Tier 4 feats, imagine how much stronger than adult selves are. Especially in Yoshi's Story were Baby Bowser has this transformation of Yoshi's Island into a pocket reality with a starry sky.

As for the Massively FTL+ speed feats, Bowser tagged the Starship while it was in the middle of traveling at intergalactic distances. That's Massively FTL+ combat speed right there. And everyone who can defeat Bowser one on one would scale; that includes all the important Mario characters such as the seven Star Children; Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Composite Wario, and Composite Donkey Kong. Daisy, Toad, Toadette, and many other characters can also defeat Bowser in Mario Run. Mallow and Geno are also comparable to Mario and Bowser and fought Smithy. Other underdog characters such as Midbus, Rawk Hawk, and Waluigi will just scale from the more casual characters FTL feats. And there are multiple other Massively FTL+ speed feats in the Mario Party games that are comparable to that one. The Raphael feat would double as a Millions of C; which is significantly lower, but still in the border. And Zeekeeper also has another Massively FTL+ speed feat; but his is incalculable and would be in another league if it was.

This also goes without saying, but none of the mooks scale obviously. And I will say that Base Mario's numerous Tier 2 feats are all outliers. But the Tiers and speeds will remain the same for now. And if anything, there might be the possibility of 4-A base forms returning given the multiple feats. I also agree with DOW on some of the other details.
 
Yeah I was gonna mention shouldn't Yoshi sending Raphael that far be MFTL+ the closest star to Earth is a couple of light years away and he was sent flying that far in seconds.
 
Theuser789 said:
No, the Grand Stars literaly open (16:45) portals, they never go into the ship. It can't move at MFTL speeds at World 1, which is the Earth's atmosphere
It's not ridiculous since the Koopa Clow car feat is pure travel speed of a vehicle, and the Koopa Clow car does have those characteristcs, and you brought Super Mario Maker in the debate
Click to expand...
This is because each world in Super Mario Galaxy is a universe. Before going to the portal, Lubba state that you're traveling through space and time to an unknown world. So it can move at MFTL speeds during the beginning.

You need to actually prove it slowing down when turning. Besides Mario Maker, every time we see it turns, it hardly slows down. The burden of proof is on you as you haven't proven why Mario doesn't scale despite several of my videos prove otherwise and that you assume it is only travel speed.
 
Yet you said the Grand Star works in fuel and denied it being necessary to exit a world, if it was moving at MFTL speeds in World 1 it would have already left the Earth's atmosphere

It's travel because that's literaly the main purpose of a vehicle, to travel, it didn't fight anyone while fighting through galaxies, and it does slow down in other games, I could link it but I am busy now, and you used Mario Maker to scale Mario to the KKC, the fact that It can easily outrun Mario kinda proves that he doesn't scale to a travel speed

Though this thread went off course, you all can do whatever you want right now
 
Closing the thread. It became redudant with arguments that have been addressed and debunked numerous times. I'm personally also really tired of seeing the same people constsantly advocating for these back to back downgrade in a mere month with little to no context beyond a preference of franchises.
 
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