Mario CRT

[Zamasu_Chan]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3270709#62

So ^this^ had a very strong reason against MFTL+ Base Mario Characters. Here's what the original OP said.

"Eoi. Well, there's a thing that has bothered me for some time in Mario's profiles, and you, as you work actively on the Marioverse, may be able to respond.

It's easy to see that the cast of Super Mario Galaxy is cosmic level. However, by looking at the profiles of the series in general, you can see that practically all the characters are scaled to the feats of Super Mario Galaxy. Even Toad is at MFTL+ speed.

During the entire game, both Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Mario was accompanied by Young Master Luma. And we not only know that the Lumas are extremely powerful (many Lumas can cross astronomical distances in seconds, and there are several during the game that can transform into galaxies), as we know that the Young Master Luma is treated as a special Luma by all the sources that talk about it.

The main question is: How far can we say that this powescaling is valid? Whereas Mario had clearly received an upgrade from Luma at the beginning of the game, what basis do we have to make a powerscaling with the entire Marioverse based on Super Mario Galaxy?"

 

[Theuser789]

I agree with the downgrade for a while, but I don't see this going well tbh

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Mario's reaction speeds should still be MFTL+, though I am more lenient with people like Toad not being MFTL+.

 

[Theuser789]

No one should be MFTL+, none of the feats scale to reactions, just travel speed

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Mario reacts to numerous things while being launched by a Lanch Star and constantly dodges Bowser's meteors. Those are MFTL+.

 

[Theuser789]

I literaly explaneid that in the message wall, both of those feats

At best Mario would be MFTL while boosted by Young Master Luma, at best

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

You only debated against Mario having combat speeds on that level.

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah, he should get at best reactions speeds, but even that it's kinda wonky

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

I was only saying Mario's reaction speeds should scale. I agree that his combat speed doesn't reach those speeds, in which case his combat, travel, and reactionary speeds should be separated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

agree. It would only scale to Travel Speed while he's boosted. And scaling every Mario Character ever to Galaxy is problematic.

 

[Theuser789]

So if this gets accepted which will be Mario's combat and travel speed?

 

[Js250476]

Well better bring in any Mario experts in here.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

DarkDragonMedeus and Dino Ranger Black should probably be notified.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

For those too lazy to read the past thread, here are the reasonings that were brought up:

To save your special one, you need the power to travel through space. Luma can give you this power. I will entrust you with his care.
	~ Rosalina​

https://youtu.be/tSEHCmSsEpo?t=508
The same about Bowser with the Power Stars:

Those who took your special one picked up the Power Stars and discovered the power to cross the universe.
	~ Rosalina​

https://youtu.be/tSEHCmSsEpo?t=941

This cute little star gifts Mario with some amazing skills, such as the ability to survive in the deep space and unleash a special spin that helps him break free of gravity and damages [...]
	~ Prima Guide​

After all, if all that ground speed in Super Mario Galaxy are essentially the feats of crossing space, the game stated that it was Young Master Luma who gave Mario the power to cross the universe and SMG is the only game where the cast is MFTL+, what basis do we have to state that all the cast i all games i the series is MFTL+? Just put the points together. Remember that the same thing about "power to cross the universe" was said about Bowser with the Power Stars, and in Bowser's case he wasn't talking about Launch Stars.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well better bring in any Mario experts in here.

Can we not just appeal to authority and instead look at arguments?

 

[Js250476]

I wasn't commenting on any arguments I was just suggesting it would be a good idea to bring knowledgeable members about Mario in here for input.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Well shit I got ninja'd yet again.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If Mario's MFTL+ is coming from him being boosted by outside help then it definitely doesn't scale to him.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Dragon and Dino are Mario and knowledgeable members. Bringing them in isn't an appeal to authority.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

Anyway, I have np with the Super Mario Galaxy characters being in MFTL+. For me these stats are right. The problem is to use powerscaling with even Donkey Kong and Toadette to the Super Mario Galaxy feats.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

If Mario's MFTL+ is coming from him being boosted by outside help then it definitely doesn't scale to him.

That only applies to his travel speeds.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Kevyn seems to make sense.

 

[Theuser789]

I feel like at best Mario would only be MFTL if he is boosted by that Luma, not normally, though the MFTL feats are kinda wonky

 

[Js250476]

I already altered DDM and Dino of this thread.

 

[Godhand1999]

I agree, Mario shouldn't be MFTL+ based on a feat that's literally faulty. It's literally just travel speed, it shouldn't scale to his reactions or combat speed at all.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

There are multiple MFTL+ feats that relate to reaction speed.

 

[Wokistan]

I think Galaxy stuff just should be separated. Tiers 4 and 3 aren't very consistent with the rest of the series, nor is the MFTL+, but those things are internally.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with the downgrade for now.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Super Mario 64 has Bowser create realms with a Sun/a starry sky. Yoshi's Island 2 includes Yoshi hitting someone so hard, they turn into a constellation.

 

[Wokistan]

Weren't the paintings already like that? Don't remember it ever being shown to be via bowser. Mario has so many games that 3 instances isn't really considered "consistent" anyways.

Got a clip on the Yoshi's island one, or a boss name

 

[Jesterofgames]

Aren't there FTL-MFTL+ speed feats in mario party games though?

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

When Yoshi fights Raphael the Raven.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

As shown in Cal's wall, I agree with Kevyn's points here.

 

[Wokistan]

Using party games as canon is sorta dubious. Tbf we do it in other cases as well even though I have my misgivings about that too, so I guess that's more a question of the standard.

 

[Wokistan]

Also I would like to note that even if we take SM64 and SM64 DS, the common theme is that there's a boost by the power stars here. Same thing in Galaxy. As such, that doesn't help much against my thought that Mario with power stars should be a different key and not the regular assumption. It already is like that, but what tier 4 feats exist without power stars in play?

 

[Js250476]

https://youtu.be/DUXzlae4T_A 2:08

 

[Wokistan]

A few issues with this:

• How can we be sure he's a real constellation and not just visual gag? Literally seconds beforehand he wasn't 4-A sized.
• How would this not be a massive outlier for non power stars?

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Raphael was physically amped by Kamek, Bowser's servant. Kamek also used that same magic to amplify Baby Bowser's power and various other enemies.

 

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

To be fair his feats are mainly travel speed.

The problem is there's no proof it also ordains a relationship to their reaction speed.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Wokistan I was actually thinking exactly that. The way it came off just seemed like a gag.