Mario AP Downgrade

[Armorchompy]

Actually, we could give Paper Mario a key for every single game, since he only starts scaling to Mainline Mario after the sticker game

Yeah, actually. When the split was made there was a bit of an agreement that he could have keys, we just sort of agreed that should be dealt with in a different thread

 

[Omegabronic]

Also, 3 cosmic feats?
I beg to differ
Just out of those at the top of my head
-Raphael the Raven
-SM64 world creation
-King Boo dimension creation
-Black Jewel
-Bowser turning Yoshi's world into a pop up book
-Mr. L dimension

All of those were rejected in the past

-Dreamy Luigi

doesn't scale to base cast

-The Stapler in Origami King eating the sun
I didn't even bring up any universal feats here

That was also rejected in the past

 

[koopa3144]

I know its a minor thing but I would like to note that it was the Hole Puncher that took out the sun not the Stapler.

 

[Omegabronic]

Actually, we could give Paper Mario a key for every single game, since he only starts scaling to Mainline Mario after the sticker game

Eh, i mean, there are a loot of games, preferebly only games where the feats are noteworthy higher than before, 10+ keys don't sound visually appealing imo

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Eh, i mean, there are a loot of games, preferebly only games where the feats are noteworthy higher than before, 10+ keys don't sound visually appealing imo

Pretty sure we're supposed to list Power-Ups in the same key, since I think they're supposed to be for different points in time and such

 

[Deagonx]

Let's stay on topic and leave the paper mario thing for another time.

One point I want to make here: The sum of many bad feats is not a single good feat.

 

[JJSliderman]

The Raphael debunk being “it’s a gag feat” seems very silly to me personally.

 

[Armorchompy]

How, though? He gets kicked, blinks into space then turns into a cartoon star. Like I'm not trying to act like a smartass, I genuinely struggle to understand what the reasoning for it being legitimate could possibly be.

 

[Deagonx]

Personally the Raphael feat being accepted as any indication of power is very silly to me.

 

[Robo432343]

you got 5 staff agreements
as much as i hate to say it, isn't this enough to be applied?

 

[Deagonx]

you got 5 staff agreements
as much as i hate to say it, isn't this enough to be applied?

Yes, but it hasn't passed the 48 hour grace period, so we must suffer for another day.

 

[JJSliderman]

I’m sorry for the whataboutism but, this exact same type of feat is accepted for Eustace from Courage, turning into stars.

 

[Armorchompy]

It is enough votes but first off we gotta wait 48 hours, and secondly I do wanna try to hear the community out a little bit first, I understand it's impossible for everyone to be happy with the downgrade but I don't want people to think I'm just rushing to apply it without caring for what people think.

 

[Armorchompy]

I’m sorry for the whataboutism but, this exact same type of feat is accepted for Eustace from Courage, turning into stars.

Yeah, that one's pretty bad too ngl

 

[Deagonx]

I’m sorry for the whataboutism but, this exact same type of feat is accepted for Eustace from Courage, turning into stars.

Lots of bad feats get accepted. I'm not familiar with that one, but the fact that a feat is accepted somewhere on the site is really just not helpful for determining whether this feat should be accepted.

 

[JJSliderman]

Wasn’t Black Jewel just rejected as universal? The realm still contains a star and a moon last I checked.

 

[Armorchompy]

Him affecting the entirety of the realm was rejected too.

 

[JJSliderman]

Why, doesn’t he create the realm and doesn’t it collapse on his death?

 

[Armorchompy]

It's been a while so I don't specifically remember the reasons though I did agree with them, but there's several non-combatants in the final boss battle that remain unharmed, so it's pretty unlikely that's an AP feat to begin with. It just takes a lot of assumptions to be a feat to begin with.

 

[Brogeefrong]

mario fans cant be gettin anything

 

[JJSliderman]

It's been a while so I don't specifically remember the reasons though I did agree with them, but there's several non-combatants in the final boss battle that remain unharmed, so it's pretty unlikely that's an AP feat to begin with. It just takes a lot of assumptions to be a feat to begin with.

Seems like kind of weak reasoning.

 

[Deagonx]

That seems like great reasoning to me. If several non-combatants remain unharmed, then in all likelihood the nature of what happened simply doesn't pertain to AP or durability.

 

[Armorchompy]

Seems like kind of weak reasoning.

I mean like, I'm literally just guessing what the reasons were based off 1.5 year old memories, if you go and dig up the thread I'm sure they'll make more sense.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Yes, but it hasn't passed the 48 hour grace period, so we must suffer for another day.

im working on some counterarguments. If that helps with anything

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm fine with waiting for them if it's not more than a few days.

 

[SamanPatou]

Iirc the Black Jewel thing was first of all a lack of UES, which means there was no way to scale the creation hax to its attacks, then the place just vanished upon its death with Wario and a bunch of other characters being safely transported back to reality.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this 100%

 

[Robot972]

So when we downgrading every other verse that has this same antifeat issue?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So when we downgrading every other verse that has this same antifeat issue?

Whenever you choose to make the CRT yourself.

 

[Armorchompy]

So when we downgrading every other verse that has this same antifeat issue?

I dunno but let me know when you make the thread, I'll probably agree.

 

[Robot972]

doesn't scale to base cast

Also, how exactly does the main cast not scale to Dreamy Luigi?

Mario fights alongside him and can even empower GIANT Dreamy Luigi’s attacks and a number of enemies can withstand Dreamy Luigi attacks, including Bowser, Kamek, Wiggler, Bowser Jr, the Elite Trio, and regular enemies. Hell, Kamek amplified Bowser to match GIANT Dreamy Luigi

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Dreamy Luigi is 2-B, so that would be an outlier even currently

 

[Omegabronic]

Also, how exactly does the main cast not scale to Dreamy Luigi?

Mario fights alongside him and can even empower GIANT Dreamy Luigi’s attacks and a number of enemies can withstand Dreamy Luigi attacks, including Bowser, Kamek, Wiggler, Bowser Jr, the Elite Trio, and regular enemies. Hell, Kamek amplified Bowser to match GIANT Dreamy Luigi

See the profile and you will know the answer

Anyway, we probably shouldn't talk abouy that here since it has little rp do with the thread

 

[The_Smashor]

I look away for five seconds. Alright, let me just look at these anti-feats real quick one-by-one.

Mario Party:
Ultimately the Mario cast still survives all this, and the main reason they get hurt is either Game Mechanics so that the minigame can happen or for the sake of comedy. Mario Party is an event that the entire cast agrees to do and is completely fine with, it would make no sense if they were actually in any mortal danger or constantly were receiving immense amounts of pain; not to mention in the various story modes characters rarely seem to be hurt after a minigame even if it's somehow painful. As for the examples given...

Bowser is barely affected by this explosion, Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability, and again Bowser barely flinches in the face of these bombs I'd hardly call this an anti-feat just because his video game health bar went down. The sign here was something they did not see coming and they didn't brace themselves for it which means that ultimately the sign just had to overpower their weight and it otherwise left them briefly stunned and unharmed, Wario is only briefly stunned by this explosion and is ultimately unharmed despite losing coins, and Banzai Bills are weapons specifically made by Bowser and his minions to combat Mario it only makes sense they could harm him. And in this instance, again, because Peach had no footing this means that the meteor would only need to overpower her weight, which due to her being in space was zero. So yeah, these are pretty weak anti-feats, and I seriously doubt the ones that weren't listed are much better.

Bowser and Lava:

• Given Bowser survives lava, usually without taking any damage, literally every other time; this is an outlier in the face of Bowser's other feats involving lava.
• Bowser isn't burned here at all, he just can't reach Mario at this point, we even see later on that Bowser is little more than stunned by this.
• Again, this is just the floor opening up under Bowser, he's not actually hurt he just can no longer reach Mario. This is less an anti-feat and more proof Bowser does not know how to swim, which makes sense since he sinks like a rock.
• Yet again, there's little to no proof Bowser is hurt by the lava itself, the main issue is that Bowser has been removed from the battlefield without a way to reach Mario.
• Again, this is proof that Bowser can't swim more than anything else. Bowser isn't shown to be damaged, he just can't ******* swim.
• This seems to be more a comical thing since Bowser's behind was set on fire and nothing else, similar to how Mario and Luigi are damaged by lava in the 3D games, and is inconsistent with Bowser being entirely undamaged by lava every other time.
• Literally no proof Bowser was actually damaged, he just sinks like a rock, which is pretty consistent. Again, this is less Bowser being damaged by lava and Bowser not being able to swim.

Bowser and Falling:

• Bowser cannot fly, at least most of the time, so this is most likely yet another instance of Bowser being BFR'd. There's no evidence Bowser was actually damaged by the fall. Additionally, using long falls as an anti-feat is looked down upon in general, much like characters being threatened by bullets, considering writers almost always vastly overestimate the potency of such things.
• Again, Bowser clearly is not on his A game in NSMBDS, this is most likely an outlier compared to his other feats. Not to mention, law of regeneration, if someone can regenerate from a blow they're probably gonna be more vulnerable than they realisitically should be for the sake of showcasing that regeneration.
• Yet again, there's no evidence Bowser was actually damaged by this. Bowser cannot fly and he likely fell longer than he jump, this is Bowser being BFR'd.
• How many times do you want me to say the exact same thing?
• Like, do you want me to mention that Bowser only screams on his way down and dosn't scream in pain or anything when he actually hits the ground?
• This is one I will confess I don't have a good answer to, but considering Mario is completely unharmed by a similar fall in the same game I think it's fine to call this an inconsistency.
• And yeah, Mario is completely unharmed by this. He takes zero damage, he just does a funny animation.

Other:

• I strongly doubt Bowser's castles are gonna be less durable than Mario, especially considering one of his castles can fight Giant Bowser, which means that the explosion would likely need to be able to damage Mario to bring it down.
• Same reasoning as before
• I don't know why this wasn't in the falling segment, but this is actually valid. However, it's an outlier in the fact of Bowser's many, MANY higher feats.
• Bob-Ombs are weapons made in order to damage Mario and other enemies of Bowser, and if they couldn't damage Mario it would be stupid for Bowser to throw them at him.
• Frankly, Bowser's scream seems to come more from surprise, frustration and annoyance than from pain. Which makes sense, I doubt these castles are cheap.
• This one is valid I will confess, but at the same time being shot out of a cannon is something that writers also often overestimate in fiction.
• Again, these bombs were in Bowser's home turf, they were likely made to be able to damage his enemies who are comparable to him.
• The same Boomsday Machine which is comparable to Mario in power and durability, and an explosion would need to be comparable to if not superior to Mario's power in order to destroy it.
• Bowser's hand doesn't appear to be hurt at all, he just struggles to pull it out.
• Because Bowser had no footing at the time, those rocks would only need to overpower his weight. Bowser doesn't really appear harmed by these rocks (No black eye or other similar comedic injury)
• Again, attack potency =/= destructive capability. And it's not stated Mario needed Bowser's help for this anyways, it could have just been the most convenient way to get all three of them outta there. Not to mention it's pretty obvious the moon rocks are in some way supernatural.
• The beam appears to be electric in nature, which is consistent with the dragon's electric attacks in the fight. Because metal conducts electricity, electricity will rarely destroy anything made of metal.
• These cannonballs were fired from Bowser's ship and are Bowser's weapons, likely meant to damage Bowser's enemies and would naturally compare to the durability of said enemies.
• Once again, Bob-Ombs are weapons meant to damage Bowser's enemies. This is more of a feat for Bob-Ombs than an anti-feat for Mario.
• Context is important here. Mario was most likely sent flying by Exor (Since literally what else could have done it?), who is able to damage Mario when he's much stronger later in the game.
• If Mario was actually threatened by this at all he wouldn't have agreed to use the cannon to begin with, given it was used to transport Mario to the moon. And Mario is briefly stunned at worst, and in fact is in the same pose he was in before.
• Luigi dosn't appear hurt by this at all, he simply didn't land on his feet.
• This same bomb can damage Mario's enemies and it clearly scales to his power and durability Hell, when empowered by the Pure Hearts it can damage Count Bleck and Super Dimentio. And again, Bowser's castles can literally throw hands with him, they're more durable than regular castles.
• For an explosion to destroy the Brobot, it would need to be comparable to the Brobot's durability.
• Mario literally just gets up and dusts himself off a second after leaving the elevator, he was not hurt here.
• Fodder Bob-Ombs like Bobby are used time and again to fight Mario, and again Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability.
• The only risk to Oliva is "Getting Crumpled", and Olivia literally survives the explosion that destroys the boulder completely unharmed.
• Once again, Bowser's castles can throw hands with him and to destroy the castle an explosion would need to compare to his durability.
• This explosion is from a Bob-Omb, which are weapons meant to damage people on Mario and Luigi's level.
• This is Bowser's airship, it's not unlikely it's similar in durability to his castles.
• This is a valid anti-feat, but it's also an outlier compared to Mario and Luigi being almost entirely unharmed by similar or greater falls.
• Luigi clearly isn't actually harmed by this considering he jumps up and down just afterwards, this is just a cartoon flattening.
• Yoob's eggs should probably compare to Yoshi eggs, which are used by Yoshis to damage Bowser and should compare to their regular attack power.
• Again, Bob-Ombs are weapons used against Bowser's enemies like Mario, they should compare to Bowser's durability espesially in large groups.
• Yeah, no, this is also lifting strength, he's pushing it. Not to mention it's a giant-ass drill, the fact it's not drilling through the rock on it's own is questionable, which could mean the rock is more durable than normal rock.
• This rock wall is being used to block off captured Koopas, it seems likely that Fawful would have such a wall be durable enough to stop the main person who would try to rescue the Koopas. And again, Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability
• This same castle can damage Giant Bowser and is likely made to be able hurt Bowser.
• This same Tower of Yikk is able to fight Giant Bowser later on.
• The Fawful Express was later able to damage Giant Bowser with it's weapons. He's also rammed into what appears the same type of rock that a big-ass drill could not break.
• The same mechanized castle that was able to fight Giant Bowser later on.
• Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability, and Roy was clearly not trying to destroy the rock but instead wanted to hurt Mario with it, and Mario likely had the same goal.
• The same papercraft creations that can damage enemies comparable or superior to Mario with physical attacks. Not an anti-feat.
• Iron balls launched by Bowser as weapons that logically should be capable of damaging the Mario Brothers.
• This is done via Bob-Ombs, which are weapons Bowser uses against the... you get it.
• This explosion is from King Bob-Omb, who is able to take several hits from Mario and logically an explosion that destroys him would need to be far stronger.
• The boss in question is a ghost possessing an ice wall, it being a glass cannon would honestly make sense. Frankly I don't have enough context to say much about this one.
• Something something meant to be a weapon to damage Bowser's enemies something something scales to his durability.

This is a total of 5 valid anti-feats from 3 different games.

Needless to say, I disagree with the AP nerf.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Agree with Smashor

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Wow. Did not expect Smashor of all people. To disagree. Really appreciate it. Not done with my counterargument. However, I do wanna add

This one from LM2 is arguably one of the worst arguments for an anti feat. Luigi falls, ok? His HP doesn't go down a single digit, and even if you arent convinced his facial expression doesn't show much. You telling me people saw this and assumed anti feat? Like. Are you serious and that quick to skim?




“Mallow states the bomb is a threat”

Ok yeah, he does, and when the bomb explodes! Anti feat dewd! However. If you watch for more than 10 seconds. The trio are not even phased, again comparable to rubberhose tnt explosions on ones face.

 

[Robot972]

Agree with Smashor

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I look away for five seconds. Alright, let me just look at these anti-feats real quick one-by-one.

Mario Party:
Ultimately the Mario cast still survives all this, and the main reason they get hurt is either Game Mechanics so that the minigame can happen or for the sake of comedy. Mario Party is an event that the entire cast agrees to do and is completely fine with, it would make no sense if they were actually in any mortal danger or constantly were receiving immense amounts of pain; not to mention in the various story modes characters rarely seem to be hurt after a minigame even if it's somehow painful. As for the examples given...

Bowser is barely affected by this explosion, Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability, and again Bowser barely flinches in the face of these bombs I'd hardly call this an anti-feat just because his video game health bar went down. The sign here was something they did not see coming and they didn't brace themselves for it which means that ultimately the sign just had to overpower their weight and it otherwise left them briefly stunned and unharmed, Wario is only briefly stunned by this explosion and is ultimately unharmed despite losing coins, and Banzai Bills are weapons specifically made by Bowser and his minions to combat Mario it only makes sense they could harm him. And in this instance, again, because Peach had no footing this means that the meteor would only need to overpower her weight, which due to her being in space was zero. So yeah, these are pretty weak anti-feats, and I seriously doubt the ones that weren't listed are much better.

Bowser and Lava:

• Given Bowser survives lava, usually without taking any damage, literally every other time; this is an outlier in the face of Bowser's other feats involving lava.
• Bowser isn't burned here at all, he just can't reach Mario at this point, we even see later on that Bowser is little more than stunned by this.
• Again, this is just the floor opening up under Bowser, he's not actually hurt he just can no longer reach Mario. This is less an anti-feat and more proof Bowser does not know how to swim, which makes sense since he sinks like a rock.
• Yet again, there's little to no proof Bowser is hurt by the lava itself, the main issue is that Bowser has been removed from the battlefield without a way to reach Mario.
• Again, this is proof that Bowser can't swim more than anything else. Bowser isn't shown to be damaged, he just can't ******* swim.
• This seems to be more a comical thing since Bowser's behind was set on fire and nothing else, similar to how Mario and Luigi are damaged by lava in the 3D games, and is inconsistent with Bowser being entirely undamaged by lava every other time.
• Literally no proof Bowser was actually damaged, he just sinks like a rock, which is pretty consistent. Again, this is less Bowser being damaged by lava and Bowser not being able to swim.

Bowser and Falling:

• Bowser cannot fly, at least most of the time, so this is most likely yet another instance of Bowser being BFR'd. There's no evidence Bowser was actually damaged by the fall. Additionally, using long falls as an anti-feat is looked down upon in general, much like characters being threatened by bullets, considering writers almost always vastly overestimate the potency of such things.
• Again, Bowser clearly is not on his A game in NSMBDS, this is most likely an outlier compared to his other feats. Not to mention, law of regeneration, if someone can regenerate from a blow they're probably gonna be more vulnerable than they realisitically should be for the sake of showcasing that regeneration.
• Yet again, there's no evidence Bowser was actually damaged by this. Bowser cannot fly and he likely fell longer than he jump, this is Bowser being BFR'd.
• How many times do you want me to say the exact same thing?
• Like, do you want me to mention that Bowser only screams on his way down and dosn't scream in pain or anything when he actually hits the ground?
• This is one I will confess I don't have a good answer to, but considering Mario is completely unharmed by a similar fall in the same game I think it's fine to call this an inconsistency.
• And yeah, Mario is completely unharmed by this. He takes zero damage, he just does a funny animation.

Other:

• I strongly doubt Bowser's castles are gonna be less durable than Mario, especially considering one of his castles can fight Giant Bowser, which means that the explosion would likely need to be able to damage Mario to bring it down.
• Same reasoning as before
• I don't know why this wasn't in the falling segment, but this is actually valid. However, it's an outlier in the fact of Bowser's many, MANY higher feats.
• Bob-Ombs are weapons made in order to damage Mario and other enemies of Bowser, and if they couldn't damage Mario it would be stupid for Bowser to throw them at him.
• Frankly, Bowser's scream seems to come more from surprise, frustration and annoyance than from pain. Which makes sense, I doubt these castles are cheap.
• This one is valid I will confess, but at the same time being shot out of a cannon is something that writers also often overestimate in fiction.
• Again, these bombs were in Bowser's home turf, they were likely made to be able to damage his enemies who are comparable to him.
• The same Boomsday Machine which is comparable to Mario in power and durability, and an explosion would need to be comparable to if not superior to Mario's power in order to destroy it.
• Bowser's hand doesn't appear to be hurt at all, he just struggles to pull it out.
• Because Bowser had no footing at the time, those rocks would only need to overpower his weight. Bowser doesn't really appear harmed by these rocks (No black eye or other similar comedic injury)
• Again, attack potency =/= destructive capability. And it's not stated Mario needed Bowser's help for this anyways, it could have just been the most convenient way to get all three of them outta there. Not to mention it's pretty obvious the moon rocks are in some way supernatural.
• The beam appears to be electric in nature, which is consistent with the dragon's electric attacks in the fight. Because metal conducts electricity, electricity will rarely destroy anything made of metal.
• These cannonballs were fired from Bowser's ship and are Bowser's weapons, likely meant to damage Bowser's enemies and would naturally compare to the durability of said enemies.
• Once again, Bob-Ombs are weapons meant to damage Bowser's enemies. This is more of a feat for Bob-Ombs than an anti-feat for Mario.
• Context is important here. Mario was most likely sent flying by Exor (Since literally what else could have done it?), who is able to damage Mario when he's much stronger later in the game.
• If Mario was actually threatened by this at all he wouldn't have agreed to use the cannon to begin with, given it was used to transport Mario to the moon. And Mario is briefly stunned at worst, and in fact is in the same pose he was in before.
• Luigi dosn't appear hurt by this at all, he simply didn't land on his feet.
• This same bomb can damage Mario's enemies and it clearly scales to his power and durability Hell, when empowered by the Pure Hearts it can damage Count Bleck and Super Dimentio. And again, Bowser's castles can literally throw hands with him, they're more durable than regular castles.
• For an explosion to destroy the Brobot, it would need to be comparable to the Brobot's durability.
• Mario literally just gets up and dusts himself off a second after leaving the elevator, he was not hurt here.
• Fodder Bob-Ombs like Bobby are used time and again to fight Mario, and again Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability.
• The only risk to Oliva is "Getting Crumpled", and Olivia literally survives the explosion that destroys the boulder completely unharmed.
• Once again, Bowser's castles can throw hands with him and to destroy the castle an explosion would need to compare to his durability.
• This explosion is from a Bob-Omb, which are weapons meant to damage people on Mario and Luigi's level.
• This is Bowser's airship, it's not unlikely it's similar in durability to his castles.
• This is a valid anti-feat, but it's also an outlier compared to Mario and Luigi being almost entirely unharmed by similar or greater falls.
• Luigi clearly isn't actually harmed by this considering he jumps up and down just afterwards, this is just a cartoon flattening.
• Yoob's eggs should probably compare to Yoshi eggs, which are used by Yoshis to damage Bowser and should compare to their regular attack power.
• Again, Bob-Ombs are weapons used against Bowser's enemies like Mario, they should compare to Bowser's durability espesially in large groups.
• Yeah, no, this is also lifting strength, he's pushing it. Not to mention it's a giant-ass drill, the fact it's not drilling through the rock on it's own is questionable, which could mean the rock is more durable than normal rock.
• This rock wall is being used to block off captured Koopas, it seems likely that Fawful would have such a wall be durable enough to stop the main person who would try to rescue the Koopas. And again, Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability
• This same castle can damage Giant Bowser and is likely made to be able hurt Bowser.
• This same Tower of Yikk is able to fight Giant Bowser later on.
• The Fawful Express was later able to damage Giant Bowser with it's weapons. He's also rammed into what appears the same type of rock that a big-ass drill could not break.
• The same mechanized castle that was able to fight Giant Bowser later on.
• Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability, and Roy was clearly not trying to destroy the rock but instead wanted to hurt Mario with it, and Mario likely had the same goal.
• The same papercraft creations that can damage enemies comparable or superior to Mario with physical attacks. Not an anti-feat.
• Iron balls launched by Bowser as weapons that logically should be capable of damaging the Mario Brothers.
• This is done via Bob-Ombs, which are weapons Bowser uses against the... you get it.
• This explosion is from King Bob-Omb, who is able to take several hits from Mario and logically an explosion that destroys him would need to be far stronger.
• The boss in question is a ghost possessing an ice wall, it being a glass cannon would honestly make sense. Frankly I don't have enough context to say much about this one.
• Something something meant to be a weapon to damage Bowser's enemies something something scales to his durability.

This is a total of 5 valid anti-feats from 3 different games.

Needless to say, I disagree with the AP nerf.

Bro cooked, agree with smashor

 

[DaReaperMan]

I should say this as an overall thing for my agreement

I heavily dislike using just one or two feats in a ballpark to scale a character unless there's just a complete absence of feats, considering there are 2 valid Tier 4 feats and 1 valid tier 3 feat, we run into that personal problem of mine.

Using Warcraft as my example, Tier 7 is the most consistent Tier, so I throw the general cast into the highest feat I got for that that scales generally, I'm not scaling everyone to, say, 6-C from a weakened Ragnaros. That's one Tier 6 feat compared to the literal dozens of Tier 7 feats, so I don't scale like that.

Using the Mario Bros verse page, there's 4 calced feats between tiers 5-3, so like, why would I use those over, say, Tier 7 or 6?

 

[Blunt_Claw]

I look away for five seconds. Alright, let me just look at these anti-feats real quick one-by-one.

Mario Party:
Ultimately the Mario cast still survives all this, and the main reason they get hurt is either Game Mechanics so that the minigame can happen or for the sake of comedy. Mario Party is an event that the entire cast agrees to do and is completely fine with, it would make no sense if they were actually in any mortal danger or constantly were receiving immense amounts of pain; not to mention in the various story modes characters rarely seem to be hurt after a minigame even if it's somehow painful. As for the examples given...

Bowser is barely affected by this explosion, Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability, and again Bowser barely flinches in the face of these bombs I'd hardly call this an anti-feat just because his video game health bar went down. The sign here was something they did not see coming and they didn't brace themselves for it which means that ultimately the sign just had to overpower their weight and it otherwise left them briefly stunned and unharmed, Wario is only briefly stunned by this explosion and is ultimately unharmed despite losing coins, and Banzai Bills are weapons specifically made by Bowser and his minions to combat Mario it only makes sense they could harm him. And in this instance, again, because Peach had no footing this means that the meteor would only need to overpower her weight, which due to her being in space was zero. So yeah, these are pretty weak anti-feats, and I seriously doubt the ones that weren't listed are much better.

Bowser and Lava:

• Given Bowser survives lava, usually without taking any damage, literally every other time; this is an outlier in the face of Bowser's other feats involving lava.
• Bowser isn't burned here at all, he just can't reach Mario at this point, we even see later on that Bowser is little more than stunned by this.
• Again, this is just the floor opening up under Bowser, he's not actually hurt he just can no longer reach Mario. This is less an anti-feat and more proof Bowser does not know how to swim, which makes sense since he sinks like a rock.
• Yet again, there's little to no proof Bowser is hurt by the lava itself, the main issue is that Bowser has been removed from the battlefield without a way to reach Mario.
• Again, this is proof that Bowser can't swim more than anything else. Bowser isn't shown to be damaged, he just can't ******* swim.
• This seems to be more a comical thing since Bowser's behind was set on fire and nothing else, similar to how Mario and Luigi are damaged by lava in the 3D games, and is inconsistent with Bowser being entirely undamaged by lava every other time.
• Literally no proof Bowser was actually damaged, he just sinks like a rock, which is pretty consistent. Again, this is less Bowser being damaged by lava and Bowser not being able to swim.

Bowser and Falling:

• Bowser cannot fly, at least most of the time, so this is most likely yet another instance of Bowser being BFR'd. There's no evidence Bowser was actually damaged by the fall. Additionally, using long falls as an anti-feat is looked down upon in general, much like characters being threatened by bullets, considering writers almost always vastly overestimate the potency of such things.
• Again, Bowser clearly is not on his A game in NSMBDS, this is most likely an outlier compared to his other feats. Not to mention, law of regeneration, if someone can regenerate from a blow they're probably gonna be more vulnerable than they realisitically should be for the sake of showcasing that regeneration.
• Yet again, there's no evidence Bowser was actually damaged by this. Bowser cannot fly and he likely fell longer than he jump, this is Bowser being BFR'd.
• How many times do you want me to say the exact same thing?
• Like, do you want me to mention that Bowser only screams on his way down and dosn't scream in pain or anything when he actually hits the ground?
• This is one I will confess I don't have a good answer to, but considering Mario is completely unharmed by a similar fall in the same game I think it's fine to call this an inconsistency.
• And yeah, Mario is completely unharmed by this. He takes zero damage, he just does a funny animation.

Other:

• I strongly doubt Bowser's castles are gonna be less durable than Mario, especially considering one of his castles can fight Giant Bowser, which means that the explosion would likely need to be able to damage Mario to bring it down.
• Same reasoning as before
• I don't know why this wasn't in the falling segment, but this is actually valid. However, it's an outlier in the fact of Bowser's many, MANY higher feats.
• Bob-Ombs are weapons made in order to damage Mario and other enemies of Bowser, and if they couldn't damage Mario it would be stupid for Bowser to throw them at him.
• Frankly, Bowser's scream seems to come more from surprise, frustration and annoyance than from pain. Which makes sense, I doubt these castles are cheap.
• This one is valid I will confess, but at the same time being shot out of a cannon is something that writers also often overestimate in fiction.
• Again, these bombs were in Bowser's home turf, they were likely made to be able to damage his enemies who are comparable to him.
• The same Boomsday Machine which is comparable to Mario in power and durability, and an explosion would need to be comparable to if not superior to Mario's power in order to destroy it.
• Bowser's hand doesn't appear to be hurt at all, he just struggles to pull it out.
• Because Bowser had no footing at the time, those rocks would only need to overpower his weight. Bowser doesn't really appear harmed by these rocks (No black eye or other similar comedic injury)
• Again, attack potency =/= destructive capability. And it's not stated Mario needed Bowser's help for this anyways, it could have just been the most convenient way to get all three of them outta there. Not to mention it's pretty obvious the moon rocks are in some way supernatural.
• The beam appears to be electric in nature, which is consistent with the dragon's electric attacks in the fight. Because metal conducts electricity, electricity will rarely destroy anything made of metal.
• These cannonballs were fired from Bowser's ship and are Bowser's weapons, likely meant to damage Bowser's enemies and would naturally compare to the durability of said enemies.
• Once again, Bob-Ombs are weapons meant to damage Bowser's enemies. This is more of a feat for Bob-Ombs than an anti-feat for Mario.
• Context is important here. Mario was most likely sent flying by Exor (Since literally what else could have done it?), who is able to damage Mario when he's much stronger later in the game.
• If Mario was actually threatened by this at all he wouldn't have agreed to use the cannon to begin with, given it was used to transport Mario to the moon. And Mario is briefly stunned at worst, and in fact is in the same pose he was in before.
• Luigi dosn't appear hurt by this at all, he simply didn't land on his feet.
• This same bomb can damage Mario's enemies and it clearly scales to his power and durability Hell, when empowered by the Pure Hearts it can damage Count Bleck and Super Dimentio. And again, Bowser's castles can literally throw hands with him, they're more durable than regular castles.
• For an explosion to destroy the Brobot, it would need to be comparable to the Brobot's durability.
• Mario literally just gets up and dusts himself off a second after leaving the elevator, he was not hurt here.
• Fodder Bob-Ombs like Bobby are used time and again to fight Mario, and again Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability.
• The only risk to Oliva is "Getting Crumpled", and Olivia literally survives the explosion that destroys the boulder completely unharmed.
• Once again, Bowser's castles can throw hands with him and to destroy the castle an explosion would need to compare to his durability.
• This explosion is from a Bob-Omb, which are weapons meant to damage people on Mario and Luigi's level.
• This is Bowser's airship, it's not unlikely it's similar in durability to his castles.
• This is a valid anti-feat, but it's also an outlier compared to Mario and Luigi being almost entirely unharmed by similar or greater falls.
• Luigi clearly isn't actually harmed by this considering he jumps up and down just afterwards, this is just a cartoon flattening.
• Yoob's eggs should probably compare to Yoshi eggs, which are used by Yoshis to damage Bowser and should compare to their regular attack power.
• Again, Bob-Ombs are weapons used against Bowser's enemies like Mario, they should compare to Bowser's durability espesially in large groups.
• Yeah, no, this is also lifting strength, he's pushing it. Not to mention it's a giant-ass drill, the fact it's not drilling through the rock on it's own is questionable, which could mean the rock is more durable than normal rock.
• This rock wall is being used to block off captured Koopas, it seems likely that Fawful would have such a wall be durable enough to stop the main person who would try to rescue the Koopas. And again, Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability
• This same castle can damage Giant Bowser and is likely made to be able hurt Bowser.
• This same Tower of Yikk is able to fight Giant Bowser later on.
• The Fawful Express was later able to damage Giant Bowser with it's weapons. He's also rammed into what appears the same type of rock that a big-ass drill could not break.
• The same mechanized castle that was able to fight Giant Bowser later on.
• Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability, and Roy was clearly not trying to destroy the rock but instead wanted to hurt Mario with it, and Mario likely had the same goal.
• The same papercraft creations that can damage enemies comparable or superior to Mario with physical attacks. Not an anti-feat.
• Iron balls launched by Bowser as weapons that logically should be capable of damaging the Mario Brothers.
• This is done via Bob-Ombs, which are weapons Bowser uses against the... you get it.
• This explosion is from King Bob-Omb, who is able to take several hits from Mario and logically an explosion that destroys him would need to be far stronger.
• The boss in question is a ghost possessing an ice wall, it being a glass cannon would honestly make sense. Frankly I don't have enough context to say much about this one.
• Something something meant to be a weapon to damage Bowser's enemies something something scales to his durability.

This is a total of 5 valid anti-feats from 3 different games.

Needless to say, I disagree with the AP nerf.

Thanks for explaining why 6-C isn't an outlier