Maou Gakuin mini-upgrade CRT

[YoPercy]

Agree with everything, disagree with BDE, and for acausality, I am neutral so you can add me to the agreed list.

Note: You may wonder why I said mini-Upgrade CRT because I will be dropping one of the biggest CRTs for the verse next weekend. So be prepared!

Can't wait

Wait till you see the massive scaling revision I'm planning.
No hax involved, no tier 2 shenanigans but it'll still be controversial as heck

Ahhh war, what a lovely thing.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Ahhh war, what a

Comrade I come in peace to witness violence, not to partake in it in any form.
I do not support the oppressors, nor do I feel sorry for the oppressed and I shall not tolerate peace on this ground.

Only chaos is allowed in my presence, no time for peace

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm back, again nothing prove Acausality 1, it literally is, when the past change, a god will fix the change not character physiology power, being bound by order is not a reason, you don't get power by being slave to a system, by this logic i can give all Dragon Ball characters acausality 1, since the verse work on the logic of branching timeline to resolve time paradox, thus you can change the past, the timeline will branch out to solve the problem. And lastly even if somehow we agree with this power, this is literally verse specific mechanic which can't be equalized in battle, because if we equalized either MG characters lost Acausality or give Source and Order to opposite characters thus they also gain power from MG due to having Order and Source

Acausality 1 for Venuzdonoa is fine i think, however negation is a no, because when you fling someone out of time, you actually grant then power like Acausality 1, not negate it

 

[YoPercy]

Comrade I come in peace to witness violence,

Same.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I'm back, again nothing prove Acausality 1, it literally is, when the past change, a god will fix the change not character physiology power, being bound by order is not a reason, you don't get power by being slave to a system, by this logic i can give all Dragon Ball characters acausality 1, since the verse work on the logic of branching timeline to resolve time paradox, thus you can change the past, the timeline will branch out to solve the problem. And lastly even if somehow we agree with this power, this is literally verse specific mechanic which can't be equalized in battle, because if we equalized either MG characters lost Acausality or give Source and Order to opposite characters thus they also gain power from MG due to having Order and Source

Acausality 1 for Venuzdonoa is fine i think, however negation is a no, because when you fling someone out of time, you actually grant then power like Acausality 1, not negate it

First, this isn't Dragon Ball, second, the mechanic you described in DB isn't even close to this one. In DB the past is changed but it just created a new timeline, here the past can't be changed at all.
If you go back in time to let's say kill someone, the order of time just laughs and resets everything. The characters themselves are bound to this law most especially the gods who are AE 1 beings and embody order.

If there's no negation for Venuzdonoa then sure, I guess it can be removed.

What about the type 4?

 

[Vietthai96]

First, this isn't Dragon Ball, second, the mechanic you described in DB isn't even close to this one. In DB the past is changed but it just created a new timeline, here the past can't be changed at all.
If you go back in time to let's say kill someone, the order of time just laughs and resets everything. The characters themselves are bound to this law most especially the gods who are AE 1 beings and embody order.

If there's no negation for Venuzdonoa then sure, I guess it can be removed.

What about the type 4?

1. Again you don't get power due being a slave the a system of the verse which both DB and MG are subjected to, which again nothing you all posted prove that it is character physiology power to resist the change in the past.

2. Not evaluate it yet

 

[Pepsiman25th]

watching for now

 

[Fixxed]

Acausality 1 is like just a verse mechanism. Everyone?? Just no i will says.
for the Gods??? I think it more make sense, since they maintain and embodied the order of the world that changless even if the world is change

BDE 1 and acausality 4 for sasha and misha, i dont think it will work

Everything else i think is fine

 

[Fixxed]

And after this, lets stop for a while about upgrading MGF verse

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

This took me a while to evaluate.

Agree on Heal, Regeneration, Regeneration negation, Immortality type 2 & 5 for Gods, Anos and Graham addition.

Definitely agreeing with Graham's rating changes.

BDE and Acausality reasoning is pretty shaky, so I'll just be neutral on that.

Just want to ask, so the Immortality type 9 negation Celis did with Parrington is via Probability Manipulation (which kinda busted), because Graham took Celis' power and Anos then absorbed Graham's power hence they both have Immortality type 9 negation? Is that the reasoning? Or the reasoning is because they both can use the same probability manipulation magic so they get immortality type 9 negation?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

BDE and Acausality reasoning is pretty shaky, so I'll just be neutral on that.

Acausality type 4 is existing outside of normal Causality which Sasha, Misha and Eques Qualifies.
As for Acausality type 1. Its not verse mechanism. Its just how a character is too lucky or something we give luck manipulation. Here characters past is protected by order( which is above fate in MGF)

Just want to ask, so the Immortality type 9 negation Celis did with Parrington is via Probability Manipulation (which kinda busted), because Graham took Celis' power and Anos then absorbed Graham's power hence they both have Immortality type 9 negation? Is that the reasoning? Or the reasoning is because they both can use the same probability manipulation magic so they get immortality type 9 negation?

Yeah Graham's had complete power of Celis. The thing is that Probability Manipulation is only limited to Voldigoad family in MGF. Its kinda busted as hell. He created a possibility where that connection between avatar and the main body gets negged.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

acausality 4 for sasha and misha, i dont think it will work

The thing is Creator and destruction gods existed before the world even born & they are not affected by mortal world Causality. You know how mortals fate already set by god's but gods existing different from that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Again you don't get power due being a slave the a system of the verse which both DB and MG are subjected to, which again nothing you all posted prove that it is character physiology power to resist the change in the past.

Its not verse mechanism. Its just how a character is too lucky or something we give luck manipulation. Here characters past is protected by order( which is above fate in MGF)

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Yeah Graham's had complete power of Celis. The thing is that Probability Manipulation is only limited to Voldigoad family in MGF. Its kinda busted as hell. He created a possibility where that connection between avatar and the main body gets negged.

Dayum, that is busted as hell.

Agree on Immo type 9 negation.

 

[Vietthai96]

Again what the hell you guys trying to say here??. It literally the change in the past was fixed due to a god who is the order of time, order is a system, they are bound to a specific system within the verse that any drastical change happened it get fixed, nothing here prove it is characters inherent state of being, physiology power allow them to resist the change in the past, they need the order of time to fix the change for them, we don't give power that way

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

I kinda agree with Vietthai here.

In a versus match, the character can still get affected by changes in their past if the battle takes place where there is no "Order of Time" that actively reverse the changes. So the acausality itself is reliant on the verse system.

What if the character fight in a verse where the causality system wouldn't reverse the change?

I can get behind "Limited Acausality type 1" which is reliant on the verse mechanic.

About Acausality type 4...
Why not make an argument that Eques is accepted as Transduality type 2 and thus beyond the order of causality in the verse? That's a better argument to give acausality type 4 to Eques.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I kinda agree with Vietthai here.

In a versus match, the character can still get affected by changes in their past if the battle takes place where there is no "Order of Time" that actively reverse the changes. So the acausality itself is reliant on the verse system.

What if the character fight in a verse where the causality system wouldn't reverse the change?

I can get behind "Limited Acausality type 1" which is reliant on the verse mechanic.

About Acausality type 4...
Why not make an argument that Eques is accepted as Transduality type 2 and thus beyond the order of causality in the verse? That's a better argument to give acausality type 4 to Eques.

Again what the hell you guys trying to say here??. It literally the change in the past was fixed due to a god who is the order of time, order is a system, they are bound to a specific system within the verse that any drastical change happened it get fixed, nothing here prove it is characters inherent state of being, physiology power allow them to resist the change in the past, they need the order of time to fix the change for them, we don't give power that way

Well then if Mortals doesn't get Acausality type 1 that's fine but Venozdonor still needs to get Acausality type 1 negation. It completely changing what is unchangeable.

Also As I said Eques , Sasha and Misha as gods exists in different system of Causality than Mortal world well even without that they should get Acausality type 4 for being outside of Order of Silver Sea.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Vietthai96 @Overlord_THE_END

Anos destroyed land of traces which is collection of all past and no one got Affecting in present. Its pretty much Acausality type 1 though.

 

[Deleted member 22275]

Again what the hell you guys trying to say here??. It literally the change in the past was fixed due to a god who is the order of time, order is a system, they are bound to a specific system within the verse that any drastical change happened it get fixed, nothing here prove it is characters inherent state of being, physiology power allow them to resist the change in the past, they need the order of time to fix the change for them, we don't give power that way

What about equipments? There are some equipments that can give powers as well if we include them in a versus match.

Another thing to note is that we only arguing on an Limited type 1 that is only true within the verse and it's not because of someone (The gods of time) but because of something, The temporal Order itself that is one of the laws that make up the world and all characters within the verse abide by them.

 

[Vietthai96]

Iirc, i said that Venuzdonoa acausality 1 is fine, however negation is not

@Vietthai96 @Overlord_THE_END

Anos destroyed land of traces which is collection of all past and no one got Affecting in present. Its pretty much Acausality type 1 though.

Scans??.

What about equipments? There are some equipments that can give powers as well if we include them in a versus match.

Another thing to note is that we only arguing on an Limited type 1 that is only true within the verse and it's not because of someone (The gods of time) but because of something, The temporal Order itself that is one of the laws that make up the world and all characters within the verse abide by them.

Equipment bestow physiology power, however being abide to law is not the same

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Well then if Mortals doesn't get Acausality type 1 that's fine but Venozdonor still needs to get Acausality type 1 negation. It completely changing what is unchangeable.

Tilting my head 180°

I can see see the reasoning for acausality type 1 Venuzdonoa.

Agree.

For acausality type 1 negation. Once again my reasoning aligns with Vietthai here:

Acausality 1 for Venuzdonoa is fine i think, however negation is a no, because when you fling someone out of time, you actually grant then power like Acausality 1, not negate it

Yeah, so I disagree with Acausality type 1 negation.

Also As I said Eques , Sasha and Misha as gods exists in different system of Causality than Mortal world well even without that they should get Acausality type 4 for being outside of Order of Silver Sea.

I'm neutral on this.
Sasha and Misha, I can see the reasoning but am not certain enough to get my agreement. (Neutral).

Arcana and Eques is a different case, I agree that they should get acausality type 4 for being Transdual type 3 and 2 respectively to Order of Causality.

 

[Deleted member 22275]

Equipment bestow physiology power, however being abide to law is not the same

I see, I didn't read your comment right, I didn't see the "physiology" part. I disagree with acausality type 1 for the mortals as well.

I'm neutral on this.
Sasha and Misha, I can see the reasoning but am not certain enough to get my agreement. (Neutral).

Arcana and Eques is a different case, I agree that they should get acausality type 4 for being Transdual type 3 and 2 respectively to Order of Causality.

And here I share the same thoughts with the Overlord.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Iirc, i said that Venuzdonoa acausality 1 is fine, however negation is not

Why not because no matter what past can't be changed but with Venozdonor it can still neg the past and keep the changes its literally negating the laws of Causality

Scans??.

Its already in his profile but let me find it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Vietthai96 @Overlord_THE_END

I hope this helps why they should get type 1 Acausality.

Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha Explanation Page

This page will cover Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha's Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Maou Gakuin Web Novel and the Maou Gakuin Light Novel. This page should not be considered a complete explanation of the verse's cosmology, since the novel has not yet provided a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Check the second world destroying spell explanation. <Gilieriam Naviem>

 

[Vietthai96]

@Vietthai96 @Overlord_THE_END

I hope this helps why they should get type 1 Acausality.

Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha Explanation Page

This page will cover Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha's Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Maou Gakuin Web Novel and the Maou Gakuin Light Novel. This page should not be considered a complete explanation of the verse's cosmology, since the novel has not yet provided a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Check the second world destroying spell explanation. <Gilieriam Naviem>

Checked it, but to be honest, i don't see anything grant Acausality 1 in that section, that Land of Trace is just a collection of past, not the literally "past" itself which can affect the present and the future due to cause and effect

Why not because no matter what past can't be changed but with Venozdonor it can still neg the past and keep the changes its literally negating the laws of Causality

No, it is not, as "acausality" here is just the god of time fixed the change, if anything that Venuzdonoa feat possibly is resistance to Causality hax

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Checked it, but to be honest, i don't see anything grant Acausality 1 in that section, that Land of Trace is just a collection of past, not the literally "past" itself which can affect the present and the future due to cause and effect

That's literally past of all things when Anos destroyed all past got destroyed. Its even written in there.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Why not because no matter what past can't be changed but with Venozdonor it can still neg the past and keep the changes its literally negating the laws of Causality

Acausality type 1 is not get affected by the change in the past.

The scan literally is of Anos making someone who is not aca 1 into aca 1 (unchangeable by the past).

Aca 1 negation is you able to affect someone who is certainly acausality type 1 by affecting their past or making them able to be changeable by their past.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Acausality type 1 is not get affected by the change in the past.

The scan literally is of Anos making someone who is not aca 1 into aca 1 (unchangeable by the past).

He never did that. He changed the past without any problem even though it's unchangeable

Aca 1 negation is you able to affect someone who is certainly acausality type 1 by affecting their past or making them able to be changeable by their past.

 

[Vietthai96]

That's literally past of all things when Anos destroyed all past got destroyed. Its even written in there.

And???, can it affect the present and the future??, because all i see is he destroy a recollection of past, not the literally past

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

And???, can it affect the present and the future??, because all i see is he destroy a recollection of past, not the literally past

He destroyed the past which is collected in the books. All pasts are stored as world copies. If he wants to change past he needs to change those information.

 

[Vietthai96]

He destroyed the past which is collected in the books. All pasts are stored as world copies. If he wants to change past he needs to change those information.

so no feat then, well, my disagreement still stand

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

He never did that. He changed the past without any problem even though it's unchangeable

Hmmm, so you are suggesting Anos changes the past which is supposedly unchangeable because of Order of Time (OOT) would reverse everything by making that person unchangeable to the reverse effect of OOT?

Did I understand that correctly?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

so no feat then, well, my disagreement still stand

「然り。されど、我もまた不滅なり。この身は、痕跡の秩序。万物の過去なのだ。時を何度塗り替えようと、そこにあったという事実は変わらぬ」

　すでに過ぎ去った存在、記録と記憶が痕跡神の秩序。

　奴を滅ぼすには、過去を改変するのが望ましいだろうが、その秩序を司る神を相手に時間魔法で挑んでも勝ち目はあるまい。

　奴は確かにここにいた。
　その事実は、なにがどうあろうと変わりはしない。

　そして、それこそが過去である奴が不滅だという所以である。
　セリスが眠っている内に痕跡神を滅ぼそうとしたのがわかるというものだ。

"Yes. But I, too, am immortal. This body is the order of traces. I am the past of all things. No matter how many times I rewrite time, the fact remains that it was there."

　The existence that has already passed away, records and memories are the order of the god of traces.

　To destroy him, it would be desirable to alter the past, but there is no way to win if you use time magic against the god who controls that order.

　He was certainly here.
　That fact will never change, no matter what.

　And that is the reason why he, the past, is immortal.
　You can see why he tried to destroy the god of traces while Celis was sleeping.

Land of traces is past itself. Anyway i forgot many things I can't dig anymore scans. I will wait for others

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hmmm, so you are suggesting Anos changes the past which is supposedly unchangeable because of Order of Time (OOT) would reverse everything by making that person unchangeable to the reverse effect of OOT?

Did I understand that correctly?

Yeah. It doesn't matter as if character inheritedly has Acausality type 1 or not because Anos negating the Causality which gives Characters Acausality type 1.

 

[Orioreeem]

Pretty sure 700 millions years are gone from Millitia world but destroying the traces doesn't affect the present

 

[Fixxed]

The thing is Creator and destruction gods existed before the world even born & they are not affected by mortal world Causality. You know how mortals fate already set by god's but gods existing different from that.

Then it must default ability for the gods not only for some god

I consider you guys want add aca 4 for sasha and misha because they existed before other order, in fact the time militia create the order, that time too she bound by order she created, i dont know the bound mean for every order or just her order. But they bound by order

 

[Fixxed]

For aca 1, like i says. I dont think it will work

Acausality 1 is like just a verse mechanism. Everyone?? Just no i will says.
for the Gods??? I think it more make sense, since they maintain and embodied the order of the world that changless even if the world is change

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Yeah. It doesn't matter as if character inheritedly has Acausality type 1 or not because Anos negating the Causality which gives Characters Acausality type 1.

I understand the argument.

I want to ask about the context behind that scene,
Why Anos is trying to save Igales? And what happens to Igales after that scene?

 

[Tatsumi504]

In a versus match, the character can still get affected by changes in their past if the battle takes place where there is no "Order of Time" that actively reverse the changes. So the acausality itself is reliant on the verse system.

What if the character fight in a verse where the causality system wouldn't reverse the change?

If mortals don't get it then the gods should as they're literally order.

 

[Tatsumi504]

@Vietthai96 @Overlord_THE_END

Anos destroyed land of traces which is collection of all past and no one got Affecting in present. Its pretty much Acausality type 1 though.

Order is independent of what it governs though. Also those are just traces, footprints left behind by all things that have been immortalized in Rivalschnedd