Making the Tiering System foolproof

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ah, yeah, refer to the bottom question I bolded in my first comment that I quoted.

 

[Antvasima]

Probably best if Ultima takes a look, but I guess I can give input...
Can someone briefly summarize all the points that are being currently discussed, though? Is the core issue just the stuff in the OP or was there more added during the conversation?

I would appreciate if somebody can help DontTalkDT with this, so he can help us to solve this argument.

Also, somebody should inform Ultima Reality about this thread.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The Tier 2 category claims to feature characters that can at least create or destroy a 4-dimensional universal spacetime continuum; 4-dimensional is redundant at best there and wrong if the verse thinks normal humans have way more than 3 dimensions

Specifying that it's a 4-D spacetime continuum isn't really redundant here, given how you can have spacetimes with both more and less dimensions than this. It's perfectly coherent to conceptualize a universe comprised of 4 dimensions of space + 1 time dimension, or one that has 2 spatial dimensions + 2 temporal, and so on.

The Tier 1 category claims to feature characters/weapons "at the least 5-dimensional, and at the most beyond all dimensions of space and time

I have no issue with that, given how being 5-dimensional alone wouldn't really qualify as Low 1-C at this point, and it's not like those characters would have to physically be 5-D even if it does qualify in specific cases.

Is shaking 2-C, 2-B and 2-A multiverses 2-C, 2-B and 2-A feats respectively? I often see the shaking of multiverses as part of the AP of multiversal characters, or that their battle could be felt universes away, but that's just so weird, if shaking just 1 universe is merely 4-A then wouldn't it be more likely for the same done to a multiverse to also not have nowhere near the power to destroy it? Added to that those type of shakings often don't end up destroying sh*t and the status quo reigns supreme, so wouldn't it be more likely for the destruction they do to be lesser than omnidirectional and no more than the characters messing some things up around the multiverse with their wide range?

I imagine that would depend. A random statement saying that the fight between two characters can be felt from other universes is obviously too vague and could be just a feat of range, but if it is directly stated (or otherwise possible to be inferred) that said fight was universally affecting the fabric of such structures, then that would qualify to me. What sets apart Tier 2 and above from lower tiers is the fact that characters in this range deal with infinite amounts of power, and there is no sensible notion of subtraction at this level that would allow a feat to get a lower tier than the structure affected by it.

Resetting, splitting and maybe eating them should standardly not be in the same level as destroying them, they can if the verse gives context for it but there are easy ways to interpret them as hax or lesserly powerful feats (especially if off-screen).

We've always treated resetting a universe as being just unquantifiable Space-Time Manipulation, as far as I am aware, so the first one isn't really much of a problem, though I don't see why we would automatically disregard the latter two solely because there can be lower interpretations of how a character accomplished them. If there is evidence supporting said interpretations, then that's fine by me, but dismissing feats just because of vague uncertainties that can be applied to any situation and taken in either direction is definitely not something I can agree with.

Idk what a 5 axes is but if we can define it and understand it then it's not Low 1-C, which is supposed to see us all as fiction and be infinite times more complex.

That's pretty false, and I have no idea where you even got it from. Low 1-C and above are by no means undefinable or completely incomprehensible to us, even if our brains naturally can't visualize such things. "Infinite times more complex" is just a meaningless buzzword that doesn't really add anything of substance.

It has to be the entirety? That’s the only way? Because I’m very skewed on this, there was a CRT where it involved a 5-D structure, but there was no evidence to suggest they were or weren’t affecting the whole thing, but they were affecting it in general, and infinitely higher structure than the universe.

You don't necessarily have to affect the entirety of a realm if a verse establishes that any portion of it, however small, completely trivializes a lower space, or if you can infer that from some basic evidence. A few characters from Umineko are really good examples of that, like Diana, for instance: She is pretty much just a regular housecat and is effectively 10-C in relation to her own plane of existence (That being Heaven), but it just so happens that said plane in general looks down upon lower worlds as fiction, so she qualifies for 1-B, even though she can't really affect all of Heaven or something like that.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Ultima.

What, if any, changes do you think should be made here, and would you be willing to handle them?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

You don't necessarily have to affect the entirety of a realm if a verse establishes that any portion of it, however small, completely trivializes a lower space, or if you can infer that from some basic evidence. A few characters from Umineko are really good examples of that, like Diana, for instance: She is pretty much just a regular housecat and is effectively 10-C in relation to her own plane of existence (That being Heaven), but it just so happens that said plane in general looks down upon lower worlds as fiction, so she qualifies for 1-B, even though she can't really affect all of Heaven or something like that.

Nice! That helps a lot, I’ll get to work on this CRT after notifying supporters.

 

[Bobsican]

It seems that this hasn't concluded.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody remind me and others what we need to do here please?