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Making Doctor Who Great Again Part 1 - Cosmology/Tiering

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Lord_Infinit said:
how many parts will have this rev 🥺 ?
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Sorry, I forgot to respond.

I'm not planning any more than 3 parts, including this cosmology thread, the ratings of the civilizations/individuals in Doctor Who, and the abilities.

However, if part 2 ends up not being able to fit in OP, much like this one, I plan to break it up into sub-threads (i.e, I might separate it into Lesser Species, Higher Species, and Transient Beings, or maybe it'll be civilisations, species and individual beings).
 
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ByAsura said:
Sorry, I forgot to respond.

I'm not planning any more than 3 parts, including this cosmology thread, the ratings of the civilizations/individuals in Doctor Who, and the abilities.

However, if part 2 ends up not being able to fit in OP, much like this one, I plan to break it up into sub-threads (i.e, I might separate it into Lesser Species, Higher Species, and Transient Beings, or maybe it'll be civilisations, species and individual beings).
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Damm, that should be quite hard, I wish you luck for the next threads

But still, shouldnt we ping someone that has a high level of knowledge of 1-A? or just Tier 1 in general
 
We've pinged everyone.

Maybe they're ignoring the thread (I wouldn't blame them, frankly), too busy, still in the process of covering it, or not knowledgeable enough.
 
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ByAsura said:
We've pinged everyone.

Maybe they're ignoring the thread (I wouldn't blame them, frankly), they're too busy, or they're not knowledgeable enough.
Click to expand...
Given the length and complexity of this cosmology, even reading it and understanding it in it's entirety is a task in and of itself.

That being said, how will the thread proceed if no other mods try and evaluate it, and have you put any more thought into what tiers you're willing to argue for these cosmological constructs?
 
I'm going to ask them personally rather than just pinging them, including what ratings they think are agreeable.

I've put more thought into it, yes, but more on the minimalistic side in case that's what we end up with.
 
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Like yin and yang stuff? The verse is filled to the brim with it. Besides the references I have in the OP, I don't even really know where to start with quotes on that.
 
ByAsura said:
Like yin and yang stuff? The verse is filled to the brim with it. Besides the references I have in the OP, I don't even really know where to start with quotes on that.
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Is there anything the verse doesn’t mention?

Might be a smaller list
 
It might be easier if I knew what certain dualities are for/could accomplish in terms of ratings so I can target something specific.

Otherwise, I'll have to perform a bit of infinite regression to eventually get what we need.
 
On second thought, I know exactly where to start.

I'll just be a moment.
 
TL;DR The universe is composed of elemental forces (embodied and maintained by The Guardians of Time) that naturally exist across all space-time, and require equilibrium to sustain creation as it normally flows.

In The Time Monster, the universe is described as an ordered and structured creation. Part of the structure includes chaos.
  • DOCTOR: Well, the whole of creation is very delicately balanced in cosmic terms, Jo. If the Master opens the floodgates of Kronos' power, all order and all structure will be swept away, and nothing will be left but chaos.
The Key to Time—composed of the elemental forces of the universe—is designed to maintain this equilibrium.
  • GUARDIAN: It concerns the Key to Time. You know of the Key to Time?
  • DOCTOR: Well, I've heard a few stories. Old legends, myths, that sort of thing.
  • GUARDIAN: It is no myth.
  • DOCTOR: Sorry, sir.
  • GUARDIAN: The Key to Time is a perfect cube, which maintains the equilibrium of time itself.

  • GUARDIAN: I am the White Guardian. In order to maintain the universal balance, there is also a Black Guardian, and he also requires the Key to Time, but for a different purpose. An evil purpose. He must not get it. Doctor, at all costs, you must prevent that.

  • GUARDIAN: It consists of six segments, and these segments are scattered and hidden throughout the cosmos. When they are assembled into the cube, they create a power which is too dangerous for any being to possess.
  • DOCTOR: Well hidden then, I hope, sir.
  • GUARDIAN: There are times, Doctor, when the forces within the universe upset the balance to such an extent that it becomes necessary to stop everything.
  • DOCTOR: Stop everything?
  • GUARDIAN: For a brief moment only.
  • DOCTOR: Ah.
  • GUARDIAN: Until the balance is restored. Such a moment is rapidly approaching. These segments must be traced and returned to me before it is too late, before the Universe is plunged into eternal chaos.

  • GUARDIAN: They contain the elemental force of the universe. They can be in any shape, form or size. - The Ribos Operation
The White and Black Guardians in this story embody order and chaos on a universal scale. The latter's natural element is a dissolved, empty universe.
  • BLACK GUARDIAN: These creatures have no knowledge of good or evil. Enlightenment will give them power. They will invade time itself. Chaos will come again, and the universe will dissolve. Where is the Captain of this ship? Where is the Captain to receive the prize? - Enlightenment
  • 'What better place than the end of the universe to set your trap? Your opposite number is at his weakest there and couldn't intervene.' 'Precisely,' said the Black Guardian. 'You walked into the situation on Metralubit as you always do, Doctor. It was easy for me to predict your moves.' - The Well-Mannered War
They are similarly described as elemental forces.
  • There are beings who transcend time, and which may well have existed before the start of the universe. The Guardians, for example, are an almost elemental force, maintaining a universal balance of good and evil throughout creation. The Guardian of Light in Time – or the White Guardian as he is also known – is balanced and opposed by the Black Guardian. How or when the Guardians came into being is unknown. But they continue to maintain the universal balance, and are said to have the ability to stop and reset the universe using the legendary Key to Time. - The Whoniverse

  • DOCTOR: An elemental force beyond the rules of the universe.
  • SHIRLEY: What's that supposed to mean?
  • DOCTOR: You think life is a balance between order and chaos. But the universe is not binary. Far from it. There is order and chaos... and there is play. What's that? - The Giggle
The Quantum Archangel is basically a sequel to The Time Monster and Key to Time saga. The Six Guardians, including Structure, Entropy, Justice, Equilibrium, Dreams and Life, basically are the universe.
  • Acting in metaconcert, the Council of Guardians was the most powerful force in the universe. In many respects they were the universe.
  • The Council of Guardians manifested in the Midnight Cathedral, filling the Dusk Nave with representatives. A whisper rose from the assembly – the stuff of their wisdom and glory. Structure, Entropy, Justice, Equilibrium, Dreams and Life: white, black, red, azure, crystal and gold.
  • The Council of Guardians seized the child at the moment of its birth. It was an abomination, a violation of thevery laws the Council had imposed on the cosmos.
  • ‘And disrupt the balance of this universe? I don’t think so.' [...] ‘Really? When it realises that you are threatening the balance it underpins? Threatening ancient laws and covenants that have prevented this universe becoming a blood bath? [...]'
The Guardians are all the same, yet different. In particular, the Red Guardian of justice referees the White and Black Guardians.
  • ‘He has many names. The Guardian of the Quantum Realm, the Guardian of Equilibrium and Balance, the Azure Guardian... and many others that I couldn’t even begin to pronounce. His species is also known as the Accord, both many beings and a singular being, all the same and yet all different.’ - An Ordinary Man
  • The New Adventures suggest that between the Black and White Guardians, there is a Red Guardian of Justice to balance the scales and referee the perpetual battle. - Lungbarrow
According to Hinton's own notes on the novel, they can't actually use their powers individually on a wide scale, lest it upset the balance of the universe. This, along with the fact that it helps focus their powers on a smaller scale, is actually why they use the Key to begin with.
  • A single spinning cube of crystal formed in the centre of the Nave, drawing a gasp from even the most restrained of the myths and legends, there in front of them. Truly a magnificent sight. The Key to Time, the focused totality of the Guardians’ powers.
  • Six Guardians agreed as one. They span the Key to Time, and with it they wove a prison.
The Key itself is composed of a substance that exists at every point in time, and is based on a level of scientific conceptualism that even Time Lords can't comprehend.
  • 'The Key to Time. The same substance.' 'Exactly,' said the Doctor. 'A material that exists in ways even old Rassilon could never have speculated. You might say it borders on magic.' K9 trundled into view. 'Magic refuted, Master. Substance cannot be analysed as it exists, er, simultaneously at every point in time. This does not constitute magic, only a level of scientific conceptualism we cannot comprehend.' - The Well-Mannered War

Does this have any bearing on anything, or did I just pointlessly wax lyrical again?
 
Seems to be more ability based. Transduality or rather Plurality based on this scan
You think life is a balance between order and chaos. But the universe is not binary. Far from it. There is order and chaos... and there is play. What's that? - The Giggle
 
ByAsura said:
The White and Black Guardians in this story embody order and chaos on a universal scale. The latter's natural element is a dissolved, empty universe.
  • BLACK GUARDIAN: These creatures have no knowledge of good or evil. Enlightenment will give them power. They will invade time itself. Chaos will come again, and the universe will dissolve. Where is the Captain of this ship? Where is the Captain to receive the prize? - Enlightenment
  • 'What better place than the end of the universe to set your trap? Your opposite number is at his weakest there and couldn't intervene.' 'Precisely,' said the Black Guardian. 'You walked into the situation on Metralubit as you always do, Doctor. It was easy for me to predict your moves.' - The Well-Mannered War
They are similarly described as elemental forces.
  • There are beings who transcend time, and which may well have existed before the start of the universe. The Guardians, for example, are an almost elemental force, maintaining a universal balance of good and evil throughout creation. The Guardian of Light in Time – or the White Guardian as he is also known – is balanced and opposed by the Black Guardian. How or when the Guardians came into being is unknown. But they continue to maintain the universal balance, and are said to have the ability to stop and reset the universe using the legendary Key to Time. - The Whoniverse

  • DOCTOR: An elemental force beyond the rules of the universe.
  • SHIRLEY: What's that supposed to mean?
  • DOCTOR: You think life is a balance between order and chaos. But the universe is not binary. Far from it. There is order and chaos... and there is play. What's that? - The Giggle
Click to expand...
This is interesting, they are talking about 2 creatures that are 2 concepts that create a duality, so the toymaker scale to this duality?
 
ByAsura said:
Sorry, I forgot to respond.

I'm not planning any more than 3 parts, including this cosmology thread, the ratings of the civilizations/individuals in Doctor Who, and the abilities.

However, if part 2 ends up not being able to fit in OP, much like this one, I plan to break it up into sub-threads (i.e, I might separate it into Lesser Species, Higher Species, and Transient Beings, or maybe it'll be civilisations, species and individual beings).
Click to expand...
please make a blog next time
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
please make a blog next time
Click to expand...
bdd.jpg

Lord_Infinit said:
This is interesting, they are talking about 2 creatures that are 2 concepts that create a duality, so the toymaker scale to this duality?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
417 dimensions refers to the number of 'multiverses' that exist in the universe in Bernice Summerfield and the Infernal Nexus.

But I am glad you found that scan.
 
It's kind of the opposite way round. The 'multiverses' are akin to universes contained within the 'universe'.

See the Infernal Nexus section of the OP for context.
 
 
 
Bottle universes are artificial, and smaller than normal universes, so I didn't see a point.
 
Speaking of blogs, this is an extension of the OP.
vsbattles.fandom.com

ByAsura/Sandbox Extra

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
It contains some stuff that I forgot to include, couldn't find the space for, or only found/was shown recently.

Of note is the fact that the Astral Plane (a pseudo-mental realm where space-time exists all at once) is an aspect of the Vortex, and the Void between universes is actually un-reality rather than non-reality.
 
Lord_Infinit said:
Are in the verse any kind of pataphysics or ontological metaphysics?
Click to expand...
Maybe.

Imagination and possibilities are both relative dimensions (like space and time) that are responsible for the omniverse. Then there's the Land of Fiction, stuff to do with The Enemy (like Dracula, Frankenstein and other pseudo-fictional characters transcending their mediums to become part of The Enemy's metafiction/metaphysically), some stuff with Iris Wildthyme, etc.

Most of this is in the OP.
 
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Lord_Infinit said:
Are in the verse any kind of pataphysics or ontological metaphysics?
Click to expand...
I think biodata fits into ontological metaphysics. In the book 'Unnatural History,' it is stated that biodata is the ontology of being. 'Biodata is the fundamental attribute, the quintessential description of any entity.'

Doctor Who seems to align with Berkeley's philosophy, where reality exists only if there is someone to observe, and the Eye of Harmony would be the all-seeing eye. Although the book 'The City of the Saved' suggests there is an infinite series of observers, implying a theoretical ultimate observer that would be God.

I've never heard of pataphysics, what is that?
 
ByAsura said:
Maybe.

Imagination and possibilities are both relative dimensions (like space and time) that are responsible for the omniverse. Then there's the Land of Fiction, stuff to do with The Enemy (like Dracula, Frankenstein and other fictional characters transcending their mediums to become part of The Enemy's metafiction/metaphysically), some stuff with Iris Wildthyme, etc.

Most of this is in the OP.
Click to expand...
Would Patafisica be meta-fiction?
 
Quasar002 said:
I think biodata fits into ontological metaphysics. In the book 'Unnatural History,' it is stated that biodata is the ontology of being. 'Biodata is the fundamental attribute, the quintessential description of any entity.'

Doctor Who seems to align with Berkeley's philosophy, where reality exists only if there is someone to observe, and the Eye of Harmony would be the all-seeing eye. Although the book 'The City of the Saved' suggests there is an infinite series of observers, implying a theoretical ultimate observer that would be God.

I've never heard of pataphysics, what is that?
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If I'm not mistaken, the book of war mentions that that was the purpose of the war against the enemy, since the Time Lords have the highest level of impact, if someone who is comparable eliminates them, then the Metastructure of the creation change
Quasar002 said:
Would Patafisica be meta-fiction?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
Quasar002 said:
Although the book 'The City of the Saved' suggests there is an infinite series of observers, implying a theoretical ultimate observer that would be God.
Click to expand...
Oh also, Cosmology of the Spiral Politic mentions that all beings that achieve a minimum of consciousness have Biodata, including AIs, therefore, the minds of those users shape the universe via observation effect
 
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