Major Toriko Revision Pre Timeskip

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The long awaited revision for the Toriko verse is finally starting. For this revision, i will only be focusing on pre timeskip, so any post timeskip questions will have to wait until I post that thread. I have a sandbox here with all the scaling and new justifications for all relevant characters.

Feats that will be in use:

Attack Potency:
Regal Mammoth Bite Force - 309.46 Tons (Multi-City block level)
Regal Mammoth Stomp - 3.39 Kilotons (Small Town level+)
Toriko Destroys an Ice Ball - 82.93 Kilotons (Town level+)
Regal Mammoth KE - 81.98 Megatons (City level+)
Cooking Island Destruction - 4.35 Gigatons (Large Mountain level+)
Military Power - 57.05 Teratons (Country level+)

Scaling Notes:
Large Country comes from being 4x the Country level+ feat since the four beast were all absorbed = 228.2 Teratons
Mountain level comes from Toriko being several times stronger than his City level+ self = 245.94 Megatons

There are more AP feat that aren't accepted like Zebra's Sound Blast which I purposefully didn't get evaluated since its such a weird feat I wasn't really sure how to accurately calc it. I also have a Coco feat of him Surviving a GT Robots laser attack, but it's also a weird feat as the crater made is very hard to make out. The last calc is the crater that the Regal Mammoth created when he fell off the cliff. This feat I'm just waiting for a reply back from a calc member that had issues with it. It's not too important, but it does support the current 7-B+ scaling that is currently used.

Speed:
Toriko Blitzes a GT Robot - Mach 69.59 (High Hypersonic+)
Satellite Speed - Mach 95456 (Relativistic)

Scaling Notes:
Massively Hypersonic comes from Toriko being several times faster after he completes his food honoring training = Mach 208.77

Now it may look weird going from Mach 200 all the way to Mach 95k, but we do have multiple training arc before hand and there are several lightning dodging feat in the Ozone Herb arc, but due to the manga layout it's nearly impossible to calc that. I haven't checked the anime to see if that's usable, but it is an option if someone would like to try and calc it.

Lifting Strength:
Toriko Lifts a Giant Rock - 83003 kg (Class 100)
Regal Mammoth Bite Force -5.66e+9 (Class G)
Chin ChinChin Scoops a Mountain - 3e+15 (Class P)

Miscellaneous:
I'd like to give Toriko a Pre Timeskip profile similar to what we do for Naruto as he currently has seven keys.

This seems to be all I currently have at the moment. If anyone has any new scaling or feats I have not included in the above section please let me know and we can hopefully work something out.

 

[Deceived3596]

Disagree FRA

Just kidding, i've haven't read through all of the proposed changes yet but i mostly agree with them, through i do have contentions with some of the ratings for certain characters that i'll explain more indepthly in another post.

Good work WOI

 

[Damage3245]

Will go through this later today.

Just to note, all instances of "via powerscaling" should be yeeted from these sandboxes. They really don't belong on the profiles and should be replaced with some better..

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Don't pay any attention to the names that say "Post Timeskip" as they are not relevant to this thread since this just deals with Pre timeskip characters.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay. Is there any confirmation that the Four Beast's Attack Potency was actually multiplied by 4 by absorbing each of its subordinate beasts? The Four Beast's Capture Level, even at its strongest later on in the fight, wasn't equal to four times its subordinate basts (even though Capture Level isn't a 100% perfect way of measuring power).

 

[Kidkinsey]

I give thanks to all the ingredients in the world
Looks good

 

[Deceived3596]

Okay. Is there any confirmation that the Four Beast's Attack Potency was actually multiplied by 4 by absorbing each of its subordinate beasts? The Four Beast's Capture Level, even at its strongest later on in the fight, wasn't equal to four times its subordinate basts

Basic addition really.

The Four Beast would have the combined AP of the singular four beast inherently since all four fused into the main body, with the singular four beast being the arms and legs of the main body. You'd have to debunk the assertion that adding 4 equal values to each other would inherently create something that's 4 times above each singular value.

Basically you'd have to argue 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 doesn't = 16 inherently. And for the Capture Level argument as you said in your post already, Capture Levels aren't 100% usable to scale the power level of different characters, this could be the exact instance were it isn't really usable and i would use the fact of basic additional math and the logical deduction of the feat to substantiate that claim.

Even if you disagree with this line of reasoning the Capture Level we're given for the Four Beast would still place him at High 6-B, just with a lower value.

 

[Damage3245]

@Deceived; I don't think it is an inherent fact that the Four Beast has the combined strength of each of its subordinate beasts once it absorbs them. It is stronger than them, yes, but you'd need to prove that it is as simple as 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 = 16.

Never mind the fact that you're also assuming in the first place that all four subordinate beasts are equal in strength / durability when all four of them have different Capture Levels.

 

[Deceived3596]

I don't think it is an inherent fact that the Four Beast has the combined strength of each of its subordinate beasts once it absorbs them. It is stronger than them, yes, but you'd need to prove that it is as simple as 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 = 16.

You're arguing that absorbing each singular of the four beasts wouldn't give the main body the fullpower of said singular four beast, which is illogical to assume in this situation since nothing directly stats the Four Beast didn't acquire the fullpower of each of the singular four beast. The best argument you would have is the Capture Level of the Four Beast but that's at best an implication and one that isn't strong by any means since Capture Levels don't inherently denote the exact or even relative power level of someone as shown with the Puffer Whale.

I believe it's more logically consistent to follow the line of logic i laid out in my previous post.

Never mind the fact that you're also assuming in the first place that all four subordinate beasts are equal in strength / durability when all four of them have different Capture Levels.

I'm assuming they're equal to each other because it's directly told to use that the four beast are the arms and legs of the main body, which to me implies some sort of equality to each other.

But my assumption could be wrong, even if it was wrong it still wouldn't defeat the main argument at hand since my argument isn't contingent around the exact levels of the singular four beast, just that the singular four beast all scale to the same calc. And the combination of all the four singular beasts to the main body would make the main body 4 times above the calc.

 

[Damage3245]

@Deceived; the issue seems to be that you're starting with the pre-conceived notion that the Four Beast acquires the individual AP of each beast it absorbs and adds them together when nothing in the chapters actually denotes that.

I'm assuming they're equal to each other because it's directly told to use that the four beast are the arms and legs of the main body, which to me implies some sort of equality to each other.

Where is the word equal used in that description of them?

But my assumption could be wrong, even if it was wrong it still wouldn't defeat the main argument at hand since my argument isn't contingent around the exact levels of the singular four beast, just that the singular four beast all scale to the same calc. And the combination of all the four singular beasts to the main body would make the main body 4 times above the calc.

If your previous assumption is wrong, then that main argument is wrong too.

 

[Xxiaa]

Agree

 

[Deceived3596]

@Damage3245 I'll address your arguments in a little bit, currently playing Prey rn.

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage3245 I'll address your arguments in a little bit, currently playing Prey rn.

No rush. I'll go back over the chapters of that arc and see if there's any helpful additional information.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Other than the Four Beast rating, are there any other issues you currently have with the scaling?

 

[Damage3245]

For Tommyrod, the Parasite Emperor's ratings looke a bit speculative - with it being stronger & faster than him.

For Chin, his ratings say "Should be comparable to Toriko after he completed his food honoring training" which doesn't sound like a solid justification for a full rating.

Rest of the sandboxes seem fine - other than Four Beast.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

For Tommyrod, the Parasite Emperor's ratings looke a bit speculative - with it being stronger & faster than him.

For Chin, his ratings say "Should be comparable to Toriko after he completed his food honoring training" which doesn't sound like a solid justification for a full rating.

Rest of the sandboxes seem fine - other than Four Beast.

For Tommyrod, he says that it takes all his power to suppress it from awakening which is why I scaled it above him.

Chin ChinChin is the one who dug out and threw the 5km Mountain that Toriko and Sunny had to destroy so if anything his current rating seems a bit low balled, but I couldn't think of anything else to scale him to.

Just to clarify your only issue with the Four Beast rating is that they scale to 4x the lesser beast?

 

[Damage3245]

For Tommyrod, he says that it takes all his power to suppress it from awakening which is why I scaled it above him.

I'd say based on this scan that the Emperor can be considered comparable to Tommyrod.

Just to clarify your only issue with the Four Beast rating is that they scale to 4x the lesser beast?

Yeah; it should scale above any of them individually, but there isn't anything to suggest is is equal to 4x Mountturtle's feat.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

IF the 4 Beasts are equals in stats to each other then the combination of the 4 should be treated as them literally combining their stats in a 4x gap sense. Even if they aren't equal maybe we can quantify each Beast and then add it for the fusion? I mean when you fuse someone into your being you are explicitly adding them to you. However, if the only notion that the Beasts are equal is that they form the arms and legs then I'd probably disagree with the beasts being inherently equal. Albeit take my opinion with a grain of salt, I haven't read the series, I've just been asked to comment on the recent argumentation.

 

[Damage3245]

The Four Beasts aren't inherently equal in stats, and it hasn't been proven that the Four Beast absorbing its subordinate beasts works as a direct addition.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why wouldn't we take the fusion as inherently an addition like we do with any case of fusion (forgive the whataboutism)? The only indication against it I've seen is capture levels, but it seems that those aren't exactly DBZ power levels.

Aside, if all the Beasts have is raw power then I can see in argument for their capture levels being purely stat based.

 

[Damage3245]

The only indication against it I've seen is capture levels, but it seems that those aren't exactly DBZ power levels.

They're closer to DBZ levels than most other series, barring a few in-verse exceptions.

As far as absorption goes, I think that while it makes sense to rate a character as higher than another character once they've absorbed them, there is additional evidence required to prove that all of their statistics have been added directly to the absorber. I haven't seen any guideline on the wiki that shows that the default assumption is always X + Y for when one character absorbs another.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

They're closer to DBZ levels than most other series, barring a few in-verse exceptions.

As far as absorption goes, I think that while it makes sense to rate a character as higher than another character once they've absorbed them, there is additional evidence required to prove that all of their statistics have been added directly to the absorber. I haven't seen any guideline on the wiki that shows that the default assumption is always X + Y for when one character absorbs another.

I see I see, well being that I am largely uninformed of the context I don't have much to say.

I guess as far as coming to a conclusion, something like "At least [ratio of capture levels times single Beast power] (capture levels are akin to power levels 9/10 times as you said), possibly [sum of all Beasts] (dude combined all Beasts into himself)" could be reasonable.

 

[Deceived3596]

I think that while it makes sense to rate a character as higher than another character once they've absorbed them

100% disagree with this assertion.

We have a value which all singular four beast scale to, they're all absorbed by the main body, which intern greatly strengthened the main body.

We have an exact value and an exact amount of beast which were absorbed, the onus would be on you to prove the main body didn't absorb the full strength of those singular beast despite the fact nothing inherently proves your assertion while my assertion is proven on the basis of basic math.

Higher values are only used for unspecified increases in strength, this isn't really unspecified as i explained in this post and my other post above.

there is additional evidence required to prove that all of their statistics have been added directly to the absorber

No? the natural assumption that absorbing someone, alongside their power-level would grant you their power level, you'd have to prove there's this mystical reduction effect to the singular beast's power level after they're absorbed by the main body. Nothing proves this concretely, you only have the capture levels which aren't concrete scaling at all, are somewhat inconsistent and have multiple open interpretation that wouldn't denote the main body's absorption has this unspecific reduction effect.

I haven't seen any guideline on the wiki that shows that the default assumption is always X + Y for when one character absorbs another

We don't need guidelines for basic logical deduction of a feat.

We don't need the wiki to tell us 4 + 4 = 8 or that 7 x 0 = 0 for those values to be correct.

Samething in this instance, the natural assumption is that absorbing someone's power-level would give you their power-level, you'd have to prove the drop off.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll continue this discussion tomorrow; but I don't think you can cover this up as just "logical deduction" that requires no additional evidence, when there is some evidence to the contrary that has been presented.

 

[Arcker123]

I dunno much about Torino beyond what these goobers tell me, but no one needs to prove “all” power is absorbed when a character is stated to absorb power. It’s your burden to prove otherwise.

 

[Damage3245]

I dunno much about Torino beyond what these goobers tell me, but no one needs to prove “all” power is absorbed when a character is stated to absorb power. It’s your burden to prove otherwise.

The one making the positive claim is one the person claiming that when Character A absorbs Character B, they get all of Character B's stats added directly to them.

This is not always the case in fiction; sometimes characters get a moderate buff, sometimes they recieve the full power and sometimes they far surpass it and get even stronger than the sum of their parts.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'll continue this discussion tomorrow; but I don't think you can cover this up as just "logical deduction" that requires no additional evidence, when there is some evidence to the contrary that has been presented.

I'm not covering anything up.

You have to prove the claim about the main body having this unspecified reduction to the singular beast's power-level, you haven't prove that yet and you can't prove that since nothing in the series actually states or even implies this.

Also i've already address this so called "evidence to the contrary" multiplier times, capture levels in Toriko aren't values which inherently prove the exact strength of a creature, hell there's times were capture levels don't even prove the relative level of a creature which is shown with the Puffer Whale.

But i'll wait for your main argument tomorrow.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You'd have to debunk the assertion that adding 4 equal values to each other would inherently create something that's 4 times above each singular value.

I don't think it is an inherent fact that the Four Beast has the combined strength of each of its subordinate beasts once it absorbs them. It is stronger than them, yes, but you'd need to prove that it is as simple as 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 = 16.

Don't we have a direct in-universe example of this? Neo and Acacia's fusion was directly linear in terms of Capture Level increase. For the Four Beasts we know the following:

• Gaoh: 127
• Invite Death: 140
• King Octopus Kong: 137
• Mount Turtle: 150
• Four Beasts: 310 -> 320 -> 350

I do believe that saying its notably stronger than all of its limbs is fine, but I'm not 100% sure if its directly linear in power increase. Since even its highest capture level recorded (350) is lower than the combined Capture Level of the rest (554)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Actually wait I'll probably have to go back on my previous claim. I forgot that in Chapter 210 we got confirmation that Terry's capture level was above 999 and the Four Beasts when going 100% was able to defeat Terry along with the other two pets.

 

[Damage3245]

@Qawsedf234 That example with Terry doesn't apply because the scanner was measuring Terry's potential as a member of the Eight Kings as Toriko explains on the next page.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Once again speed reading is my downfall.

Well anyways I only get the scaling in two cases:

• We assume the Four Beast going all out boosts its Capture Level to or past 554
• We go with a peak Four Beast fighting the ancestors of Terry, Kiss and the other one to indicate that it's peak strength would be notably above 554

Might be better to just upscale it to High 6-B.

 

[Chariot190]

Regal Mammoth Bite Force -5.66e+9 (Class G)

Is that allowed? I mean cubing the thing it's based off to get force?

 

[Damage3245]

@Qawsedf234 There's a bigger issue with the scaling here, I think.

First, the calced barrage that hits Mountturtle - not all of it actually hits the beast. Looks at the sheer size of the widespread destruction here. We're being generous in the first place by fully scaling Mounturtle's durability to the full figure of the calc.

But aside from that, each of the other Four Beast's don't share this feat. We're shown them dodging in the case of the Fang King who avoids the attacks, and the other two simply appear to have the attacks miss them or not be concentrated on them as much as we can see the lasers raining down around them.

So assuming they're all equally as durable as Mounturtle is also generous since they don't share his feat.

But aside from that; this is a durability calc. This is not a calc for Mountturtle's AP / Striking Strength, or for the other members of the Four Beasts. That makes it even more fallicious for the core Four Beast to be 4x the value of the calc.

I think we should simply calc it like this.

1) Mountturtle's Durability = Calc. (Generous, but we'll go with it for now)
2) Zebra > Mountturtle
3) Four Beast > Zebra

So we should just scale the core Four Beast as scaling above the original calc; not multiplying to a value above it.

Also - just in case people are still hung up on the Capture Level details. Toriko mentions that the capture level scanner only works on the raw strength of the beast alone. So this would apply to the scans of the core Four Beast which start off at 310 and go as high as 350.

 

[Deceived3596]

Once again speed reading is my downfall.

L

Might be better to just upscale it to High 6-B.

That's pretty much what we're doing rn.

If everyone has contentions with the Four Beast's main body absorbing every bit of strength from the singular beast then i'm personally fine with just using the canon capture level we're given to measure the main body's AP, which would still result in it being High 6-B.

I just vehemently disagree with the Four Beast not upscaling to High 6-B but rather only scaling to the 6-B value and just slapping on a "higher" rating beside it.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

First, the calced barrage that hits Mountturtle - not all of it actually hits the beast. Looks at the sheer size of the widespread destruction here. We're being generous in the first place by fully scaling Mounturtle's durability to the full figure of the calc.

It's interesting that you decided to leave the previous page out as it shows all of the attacks are directly hitting mounturtle, we see it spreading because of the explosions, but it would still scale to his durability.

 

[Damage3245]

It's interesting that you decided to leave the previous page out as it shows all of the attacks are directly hitting mounturtle, we see it spreading because of the explosions, but it would still scale to his durability.

I didn't leave it out; that just wasn't what was relevant. Yes, the initial shots hit Mount Turtle - but not all of the shots it seems which was the important bit.

I ended off my argument by saying that scaling Mount Turtle's durability to the calc should be fine.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I didn't leave it out; that just wasn't what was relevant. Yes, the initial shots hit Mount Turtle - but not all of the shots it seems which was the important bit.

I ended off my argument by saying that scaling Mount Turtle's durability to the calc should be fine.

Oh, that's fine then. How's the current discussion going reguarding the Four Beast scaling?

 

[Damage3245]

Oh, that's fine then. How's the current discussion going reguarding the Four Beast scaling?

The rest of my post up above contains more details on that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So we should just scale the core Four Beast as scaling above the original calc; not multiplying to a value above it.

Personally I think going to High 6-B for the Four Beast is warranted in some regard:

• Its initial capture level is still over double that of Mount Turtle's
• The entire time it was basically holding back on everyone, including all the pets and when it went all out it easily curbstomped them
• They had to win with a joint team attack since they were physically unable to contend with the Four Beast

I get not scaling the others to High 6-B, at least initially, but the Four Beast being High 6-B in of itself isn't outlandish imo. True Power > 350 > 310 > 300 > One Shot by Zebra > 150 > 6-B+ calc

 

[Damage3245]

@Qawsedf234 What about the issue that the calc is just a durability feat for Mount Turtle? Not an AP calc. (Ah, wait, I think you've answered that)

Is the Four Beast one-shotting Zebra who is > 57.05 Teratons enough to make the Four Beast core 100 Teratons?

Perhaps we can make the powered-up core of the Four Beast to be: "At least 6-B+, likely higher".