- 39,646
- 15,557
I remember i has Pokemons card in my home, maybe i can helping a bit with that.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Major Pokemon Revisions (It's Not About The Tiering, I Swear)
- Thread starter Starter_Pack
- Start date
- 10,064
- 5,290
- Thread starter
- #42
Keeping this movement alive bump.
By the way, I've finished with the downgrading of the majority of the Pokemon profiles. The only ones I haven't really jumped into yet is the Trainer profiles, mostly because they're complicated and I'm not sure how to nibble at them.
By the way, I've finished with the downgrading of the majority of the Pokemon profiles. The only ones I haven't really jumped into yet is the Trainer profiles, mostly because they're complicated and I'm not sure how to nibble at them.
- 40,459
- 12,940
Aiden and I will handle the Trainers.
- 10,064
- 5,290
- Thread starter
- #44
Then nibble away! Owo
Meanwhile, back to the main topic at hand, fixing the Pokemon profiles in a general sense.
Meanwhile, back to the main topic at hand, fixing the Pokemon profiles in a general sense.
- 40,459
- 12,940
About the Magnemite thing, so you don't want Pokedex quotes? Or do you? I'm not sure what you want with the summary bit.
- 10,064
- 5,290
- Thread starter
- #46
Basically, what I like about Magnemite is the fact that it has the Pokedex quote, the picture and the Summary in individual tabs for each Pokemon in the evolution chain. (Unlike other profiles such as Talonflame, which only have the quote and the picture in individual tabs.)
I know it's a bit more work, but having each tab have its own Summary will definitely help identify which Pokemon is which, instead of just using one Summary for one of the Pokemon for the entire profile.
I know it's a bit more work, but having each tab have its own Summary will definitely help identify which Pokemon is which, instead of just using one Summary for one of the Pokemon for the entire profile.
- 39,646
- 15,557
We can leave the Trainers for now, what we gonna focusing is the missing abilities for Pokemons.
- 10,064
- 5,290
- Thread starter
- #48
I mean...Cal and Aidan can go ahead and work on that while we're taking care of the rest of it.Veloxt1r0kore said:
Seems fine to me. After all, I spent the rest of yesterday working on the rest of the Pokemon profiles, so...
- 39,646
- 15,557
Hmmm, understood.
- 40,459
- 12,940
Because Dugtrio's feat doesn't exist.
- 15,332
- 7,563
It does, just can't wrap my head around calc'ing it.
- 39,646
- 15,557
If the legendaries get downgraded, it will fell to what level?
- 8,377
- 3,045
Lugia and Ho-Oh don't use KE, the calc is legit.
- 33,408
- 8,430
I am pretty sure Ho-Oh's calc does use KE.TriforcePower1 said:
"KE = 0.5 * 1.04472981e15 * 46970.5882┬▓ = 1.15246034e24 Joules, High 6-B."
"KE (Low-end): 0.5 * 46970.5882┬▓ * 6.42910657e14 = 7.09206368e23 Joules"
"KE (High-end): 0.5 * 46970.5882┬▓ * 9.4829322e14 = 1.04607939e24 Joules"
From the blog itself.
- 40,459
- 12,940
For the sake of Starter, can we get back on topic please?
- 12,562
- 2,517
Ik this isn't about tiering but quick question
We scaled megas to be >> Marowak w/ the Thick Club + Pure/Huge Power Pokemon before, which was why they were High 6-C+ and not just High 6-C. Shouldn't we make Huge/Pure Power Pokemon High 7-A, since they already massively scale above 7-A+ without the 2x boost, and therefore megas as well?
We scaled megas to be >> Marowak w/ the Thick Club + Pure/Huge Power Pokemon before, which was why they were High 6-C+ and not just High 6-C. Shouldn't we make Huge/Pure Power Pokemon High 7-A, since they already massively scale above 7-A+ without the 2x boost, and therefore megas as well?
- 10,064
- 5,290
- Thread starter
- #64
Says who? As far as I'm aware, it's still 7-A for fully evolved Pokemon.
- 10,064
- 5,290
- Thread starter
- #66
That's because they haven't been revised yet.
Cal and Aiden will be working on that shortly.
Also, why does my revision thread that has nothing to do with tiering keep falling back to talking about the tiering?
Cal and Aiden will be working on that shortly.
Also, why does my revision thread that has nothing to do with tiering keep falling back to talking about the tiering?
- 10,095
- 3,770
IMHO, it may be that people are unnecessarily concerned about having their stuff ranked/tiered as high as possible. IMHO, one should only be concerned about it being ranked accurately here. Tiering mostly just dictates who the characer can reasonable have Vs Matches against.
Anyway: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Yanmega
I am not an expert at editing, but shouldn't the tabbers be in the opposite order (Yanma, THEN Yanmega.) so that it matches its Keys & the order of its evolutionary line? Also, it may be worthwhile to make it searchable through Yanma, not just Yanmega.
Supposing that's the correct course of action, it may be good to apply such changes to other profiles, too.
Anyway: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Yanmega
I am not an expert at editing, but shouldn't the tabbers be in the opposite order (Yanma, THEN Yanmega.) so that it matches its Keys & the order of its evolutionary line? Also, it may be worthwhile to make it searchable through Yanma, not just Yanmega.
Supposing that's the correct course of action, it may be good to apply such changes to other profiles, too.
- 10,095
- 3,770
But the profile accounts for Yanma and Yanmega. If it's going to account for both of them, shouldn't the name redirect to the one it isn't named after? And if the tabber order doesn't matter, why not change the order to match the keys & evolutionary line order?
Heck, Marowak, Alakazam & Magnemite already have the first stage as the first tabber, so it seems more precedented, IMHO.
Heck, Marowak, Alakazam & Magnemite already have the first stage as the first tabber, so it seems more precedented, IMHO.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
- 6,271
I mean, that´s kinda subjetive as of now, so more input regarding that is likely a good idea.
I think just leading with the Pokémon the profile is named after is a good way to start. Lucario, Pikachu and Charizard´s profiles do that, and I like how they look to give honors to the leading one.
I think just leading with the Pokémon the profile is named after is a good way to start. Lucario, Pikachu and Charizard´s profiles do that, and I like how they look to give honors to the leading one.
- 813
- 137
I am pretty sure Ho-Oh's calc does use KE.
"KE = 0.5 * 1.04472981e15 * 46970.5882┬▓ = 1.15246034e24 Joules, High 6-B."
"KE (Low-end): 0.5 * 46970.5882┬▓ * 6.42910657e14 = 7.09206368e23 Joules"
"KE (High-end): 0.5 * 46970.5882┬▓ * 9.4829322e14 = 1.04607939e24 Joules"
From the blog itself.
Sorry, dont want to make this about tiering again, but have to ask if it wasnt already.
Is there anything proving that the Ho-Oh feat doesnt use KE? I dont know much on the CAPE business but im hearing KE can still be used if explained why the feat falls under that. No one seems to diving into whether Ho-Ohs feat is KE or not, so asking before stuff happens.
"KE = 0.5 * 1.04472981e15 * 46970.5882┬▓ = 1.15246034e24 Joules, High 6-B."
"KE (Low-end): 0.5 * 46970.5882┬▓ * 6.42910657e14 = 7.09206368e23 Joules"
"KE (High-end): 0.5 * 46970.5882┬▓ * 9.4829322e14 = 1.04607939e24 Joules"
From the blog itself.
Sorry, dont want to make this about tiering again, but have to ask if it wasnt already.
Is there anything proving that the Ho-Oh feat doesnt use KE? I dont know much on the CAPE business but im hearing KE can still be used if explained why the feat falls under that. No one seems to diving into whether Ho-Ohs feat is KE or not, so asking before stuff happens.
- 10,095
- 3,770
@Bobsician: I'd assume Lucario, Pikachu & Charizard are the first tabbers because of that stage of their lines being especially notable: Movie focus 'mon, mascot, popular Pokemon of Ash's, & all 3 are playable in Smash for one. Also, Pokken, I think.
I don't think they're the norm in which stage would be listed first, so their standards don't seem like what should be used for Yanma/Yanmega, I think.
Yanmega is notable for being the most powerful & the latest introduced in the line. Yanma is notable for being the base form, being introduced first & appearing in more official works, & having it as the first tabber to match the keys & evolutionary line order just looks better, & follows precedent, if you ask me.
I don't think they're the norm in which stage would be listed first, so their standards don't seem like what should be used for Yanma/Yanmega, I think.
Yanmega is notable for being the most powerful & the latest introduced in the line. Yanma is notable for being the base form, being introduced first & appearing in more official works, & having it as the first tabber to match the keys & evolutionary line order just looks better, & follows precedent, if you ask me.
- 10,064
- 5,290
- Thread starter
- #75
You raise a fair point, Imaginym. Though, I do also believe that Pokemon that a profile is created for should be left as the first image people see upon loading a page. Otherwise, people who aren't familiar with Pokemon will possibly end up thinking a Cranidos is actually supposed to be a Rampardos, for example.
Though, the idea of making the previous evolutions of Pokemon into a searchable query is something I've been meaning to discuss with Ant for a bit now, as it would be a fairly lengthy process to get the set in. Though, considering the fact that upon searching Kakarot, you can come up with Son Goku, I don't believe this is impossible.
Though, the idea of making the previous evolutions of Pokemon into a searchable query is something I've been meaning to discuss with Ant for a bit now, as it would be a fairly lengthy process to get the set in. Though, considering the fact that upon searching Kakarot, you can come up with Son Goku, I don't believe this is impossible.
- 40,459
- 12,940
Again, I don't care about non-Final evolutions with very few exceptions, so I'd definitely prefer the final forms to be the main.
Only Pokémon that should have their firsts over their lasts imo are Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Clefairy, Psyduck, Porygon, Togepi, Bidoof, and Meltan. Technically Eevee and Magikarp too but for different reasons and they already have their own profiles (Tyrogue would get the same treatment).
Only Pokémon that should have their firsts over their lasts imo are Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Clefairy, Psyduck, Porygon, Togepi, Bidoof, and Meltan. Technically Eevee and Magikarp too but for different reasons and they already have their own profiles (Tyrogue would get the same treatment).
- 10,095
- 3,770
Looking at Digimon from the verse page's "other Digimon" section, most Digimon that aren't remarkably popular show their base form as the first tabber. Likewise, characters like Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super) and Natsu Dragneel show their base form first.
NOT their most powerful form. If the reason to show Yanmega's tabber first is it's the most powerful or most recent, we might show Goku in Ultra Instinct or Roshi in his Jiangshi.
I think having the tabbers be out of order compared to the keys in evolutionary line on the basis of "this is the most powerful form" doesn't look proper. Other 'verses show base first, why shouldn't Pokemon?
Also, if Cal's basis is he doesn't care about non-Final evolutions, isn't that personal opinion? Thus, shouldn't that come second to properly organizing the profiles & following precedent like with the above examples, as well as other Pokemon profiles?
NOT their most powerful form. If the reason to show Yanmega's tabber first is it's the most powerful or most recent, we might show Goku in Ultra Instinct or Roshi in his Jiangshi.
I think having the tabbers be out of order compared to the keys in evolutionary line on the basis of "this is the most powerful form" doesn't look proper. Other 'verses show base first, why shouldn't Pokemon?
Also, if Cal's basis is he doesn't care about non-Final evolutions, isn't that personal opinion? Thus, shouldn't that come second to properly organizing the profiles & following precedent like with the above examples, as well as other Pokemon profiles?
- 10,095
- 3,770
@Starter Pack: Thank you for your response to me. Although, if the issue is that "people finding the page for the first time might get confused about which image corresponds to which form/species if the page title and first shown tabber don't match", shouldn't the profile just be renamed?
I mean, assuming we can't have the page display a different title or other indicator that X name corresponds to X form through the tabbers or other info on the page. In Magnemite's profile, each tabber already has the name for what is shown in the image to click, for example.
(Apologies for the double post.)
I mean, assuming we can't have the page display a different title or other indicator that X name corresponds to X form through the tabbers or other info on the page. In Magnemite's profile, each tabber already has the name for what is shown in the image to click, for example.
(Apologies for the double post.)
- 12,562
- 2,517
Because for the profiles to be correct, so do the tiers. As for the argument that we want stuff to be in a higher tier, if you're referring to me, megas being 7-A is far more beneficial than being a bit above baseline in another, so that's wrong.Starter Pack said:
Also, Yanmega is the name of the profile + the profile is in the Gen 4 section. I make it clear within the tabbers that Yanma evolves into Yanmega and not vice versa. I don't see what the problem is.
Sorry if I'm being blunt, I'm really tired rn
- 10,095
- 3,770
Apologies if I'm being a bother, @GyroNutz. I hope you sleep well when you do. (Although, if you'd be willing to say what you mean by "megas being 7-A is far more beneficial than being a bit above baseline in another, so that's wrong.", you'd have my gratitude.)
I don't mean to stir up trouble, all.
Speaking in regards to my own personal feelings, I often feel that the non-final evolutions are needlessly disregarded. Also, in my opinion, tabber order should match key/tier order, for neatness's sake, & if it has that, why shouldn't it follow the official evolutionary line order?
In the case of Yanma/Yanmega, as mentioned above, Yanma is the base form -Which a lot of character profiles list the tabber first- and was introduced years before Yanmega, giving it more official appearances, and individually, giving it additional feats.
I like fully evolved Pokemon as much as anyone else. They're cool and strong, and I appreciate a Pokemon being powerful, but I don't think pre-evolutions should be neglected. I like them, too, and I'm pretty sure there are other people who like them as well.
I think indexing statistics is a matter not concerned with which form is more powerful, but simply what the statistics of the forms are.
I don't feel it's right to neglect powerful characters of a 'verse just because they're not as powerful as certain forms of their species.
I understand that being more powerful & being the final/most recently introduced form is notable, but I think that brings its own issues:
If we should list the most powerful forms, why not Mega Evolution Forms & the like as the default tabber?
If we should list the most recent forms, why not have Bonsly as Sudowoodo's default tabber, Mime Jr. as Mr. Mime's or Bellossom as Vileplume's?
I will admit that there could be a visual consistency issue with listing base forms for some species as the default tabber if the 'verse page displays art of the fully evolved form, however.
With that in mind, I can see there's a case for other standards, but I think there's also merit to listing base form's tabber as the default.
I don't mean to stir up trouble, all.
Speaking in regards to my own personal feelings, I often feel that the non-final evolutions are needlessly disregarded. Also, in my opinion, tabber order should match key/tier order, for neatness's sake, & if it has that, why shouldn't it follow the official evolutionary line order?
In the case of Yanma/Yanmega, as mentioned above, Yanma is the base form -Which a lot of character profiles list the tabber first- and was introduced years before Yanmega, giving it more official appearances, and individually, giving it additional feats.
I like fully evolved Pokemon as much as anyone else. They're cool and strong, and I appreciate a Pokemon being powerful, but I don't think pre-evolutions should be neglected. I like them, too, and I'm pretty sure there are other people who like them as well.
I think indexing statistics is a matter not concerned with which form is more powerful, but simply what the statistics of the forms are.
I don't feel it's right to neglect powerful characters of a 'verse just because they're not as powerful as certain forms of their species.
I understand that being more powerful & being the final/most recently introduced form is notable, but I think that brings its own issues:
If we should list the most powerful forms, why not Mega Evolution Forms & the like as the default tabber?
If we should list the most recent forms, why not have Bonsly as Sudowoodo's default tabber, Mime Jr. as Mr. Mime's or Bellossom as Vileplume's?
I will admit that there could be a visual consistency issue with listing base forms for some species as the default tabber if the 'verse page displays art of the fully evolved form, however.
With that in mind, I can see there's a case for other standards, but I think there's also merit to listing base form's tabber as the default.
Similar threads
