Major My Hero Academia Speed Downgrade! (Probably).

[Maitreya12]

Hello, I’m back (momentarily)

And I’m here to immediately do some hating

No but seriously, I was looking over the Stars and Stripes radio waves calc and I immediately noticed a serious logical error.

Radio Waves = Speed of Light = 2.998e+8 m/s

Yes, however:

Tomura didn’t just fire radio waves at Stars and Stripes, he fired radio waves + air canon + heavy payload.

Now it’s well understand that greater mass weighs down speed, this especially applies to particles.

The Radio waves is having air added as actual mass in its motion. That alone would deter the waves’ speed to not be light speed, but then Shiggy tacked on something called “heavy payload” to the mix, which as the name would imply, would be something….well, heavy.

Meaning it’s even more, possibly an even great amount of mass added, which simply means the attack would not move at light speed anymore, as it’s not just radio waves alone, it’s mixed in with other masses.

It’s kinda the same principle as another thread which downgraded Garou’s speed, as it assumed the spike was moving at the speed of a water jet, when in actuality there was more mass which would bog down the spike heading Garou’s weigh.

This would downgrade Stars and Stripes, Shiggy, and anyone scaling off of them from

80% SoL (Relativistic+)
To
1.9% SoL (Sub-Relativistic)

Hate to see it.

 

[SlendVeny]

The Air Cannon point is viable, but Heavy Payload doesn't probably make anything heavier. All we know is that it seemingly increases the force of the output, which, if anything, would make it faster.

 

[Papusupreme]

I think you meant correct the calc using the refractive index of air? Obv can agree with that.

 

[Maitreya12]

The Air Cannon point is viable, but Heavy Payload doesn't probably make anything heavier. All we know is that it increases the force, which, if anything, would make it faster.

Having more mass would also increase force, but it still would decrease speed. Like I can throw a punch faster than I can swing a sledgehammer but the sledgehammer is gonna carry a lot more force to it

Both the words “heavy” and “payload” implies more mass than a propulsion of force I believe.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Seems Logical, I agree.

 

[Papusupreme]

I think you meant correct the calc using the refractive index of air? Obv can agree with that.

Btw this would be in fact a minor downgrade (79.57% SOL to 79.55% SOL). Just pointing it out.

 

[Dalesean027]

Radio waves travel at light speed, but that’s only in frictionless space. Radio waves having to move through the atmosphere itself already lowers its speed, let alone having air added as actual mass in your motion. That alone would deter the waves’ speed to not be light speed, but then Shiggy tacked on something called “heavy payload” to the mix, which as the name would imply, would be something….well, heavy.

I'll just flat out start by letting you know radio waves still move practically at almost entirely the SoL in atmosphere so this being the basis of your premise is already faulty, the atmosphere is still thin enough to allow radio waves to practically still move at 99.99% SoL

Radio wave - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/583093main_earth_calling.pdf

[Solved] The absolute refractive index of air is around

Concept: The absolute refractive index of a medium : The ratio of the speed of light in a vacuum to the speed of light in the given medium i

testbook.com

 

[Maitreya12]

so this being the basis of your premise is already faulty, the atmosphere is still thin enough to allow radio waves to practically still move at 99.99% So

That is not the basis for my argument, it was simply something to point out.

The basis for the argument is: added mass to radio waves thereby decreases speed.

 

[Papusupreme]

The speed of light is not reduced by the medium mass.

 

[Therefir]

Assuming that Heavy Payload, a Quirk of which we only know its name and which is probably nothing more than a power boost of the attack itself, somehow adds weight to the attack is a massive reach.

Plus we kind of already discussed this on the thread itself.

 

[Dalesean027]

That is not the basis for my argument, it was simply something to point out.

The basis for the argument is: added mass to radio waves thereby decreases speed.

I mean your argument outside of this is literally that heavy payload has the word heavy so its slower...

Shiggy tacked on something called “heavy payload” to the mix, which as the name would imply, would be something….well, heavy.

Meaning it’s even more, possibly an even great amount of mass added, which simply means the attack would not move at light speed anymore, as it’s not just radio waves alone, it’s mixed in with other masses.

and without anything actually concrete mind you, you just arbitrarily assumed its great mass and really have no argument's other than he POSSIBLY could have tackled on enough weight to slow it down because one of the quirks has the word heavy in it and even then it's arbitrary enough considering that the same exact things can be used to send communications and detailed messages and function at speeds and utility as legitimate radio waves, we're never told the messages were delayed or the signals we're weird outside of appearing as regular radio waves enough be seen as even communication so no I don't see your argument when the crux is just blatantly made from assumptions

 

[Maitreya12]

Btw this would be in fact a minor downgrade (79.57% SOL to 79.55% SOL). Just pointing it out.

Again, this is different from my posotion.

That is in reference to radio waves being weighed down due to fiction pushing back against it.

My argument is in relation to added mass slowing down the radio waves’ speed.

It was simply something I said just to point out, nothing more.

I’m gonna remove it from the OP because it’s clearly confusing others for the main point.

 

[Papusupreme]

That is in reference to radio waves being weighed down due to fiction pushing back against it.

But, eh, friction can't push back something without mass.
Is it a typo?

 

[Therefir]

Why would Air Cannon or Heavy Payload add more mass to radio waves in the first place, how does that logic even work, one thing is air, the other is an unknown Quirk, and the third is electromagnetic radiation.

Frankly, I don't understand the correlation or why these attacks would interact in such a way that the radio waves' velocity would behave differently than it normally does.

It would be an assumption on my part, but the first use of this combination does implies that Shigaraki used the Air Cannon to simply give more range to his radio waves, so I'm more inclined to think that Heavy Payload is just there to increase the power of his Air Cannon itself, further increasing the range of the Radio Waves, but it's all speculation, like this thread.

 

[Maitreya12]

I mean your argument outside of this is literally that heavy payload has the word heavy so its slower...

No it is not.

“Air canon” would have mass to it, “air” itself has mass. Mass does not travel at light speed. If you’re combining quirks, you’ve mixed in mass with photons, thereby making it not light speed.

Assuming that Heavy Payload, a Quirk of which we only know its name and which is probably nothing more than a power boost of the attack itself, somehow adds weight to the attack is a massive reach.

Plus we kind of already discussed this on the thread itself.

Is it not an assumption in of itself to assume that it’s “a power boost of the attack.”

That is also an assumption same as “big mass attack” or hell why is “power boost” not an assumption but “adds mass” is?

Also don’t quirk names literally give the general indications to the usage to their capabilities.

Decay
Creation
Float
Danger sense
……
“Air canon” “Radio Waves”

I think actually it’s a grander assumption for it to be a power boost since the term “heavy payload” indicates more mass rather a boost in power.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Using names to suggest what the Quirk does (without any actual concrete information) is still assumptive, though. I wouldn't consider that actually usable in an argument because it's entirely opinionated

 

[Maitreya12]

Why would Air Cannon or Heavy Payload add more mass to radio waves in the first place, how does that logic even work, one thing is air, the other is an unknown Quirk, and the third is electromagnetic radiation.

Because it’s a combination quirk. He is combining quirks together here.

He combines photons with mass, radio waves are pure photons, and air carries mass to it. He has now mixed and added them together.

It’s just science. You combine something pure with something not pure, you get an impure substance. If photons are pure and mass would be impure, and they are separate, but then are combined, the resulting mixture would inherently be mixed.

 

[Dalesean027]

He combines photons with mass, radio waves are pure photons, and air carries mass to it. He has now mixed and added them together.

It’s just science. You combine something pure with something not pure, you get an impure substance. If photons are pure and impure and they are separate, but then are combined, the resulting mixture would inherently be mixed.

Radio waves + air = essentially still just SoL i literally sent you several sources saying that... air as a medium doesn't really do anything to slow its speed

 

[57Dev]

This was already discussed on the thread. A blast of air won't add mass to electromagnetic radiation. Heavy Payload is a damage booster so that doesn't even apply to speed.

Air is just a medium. This downgrade is baseless.

 

[Maitreya12]

Radio waves + air = essentially still just SoL i literally sent you several sources saying that... air as a medium doesn't really do anything to slow its speed

That’s not what your source is saying.

They penetrate the atmosphere.

It’s says radio waves penetrating the atmosphere causes it to go 99.99% the speed of light. That’s completely different.

Air can’t approach the speed of light, mass approach or reach SoL.

 

[Dalesean027]

It’s radio waves penetrating the atmosphere causes it to go 99.99% the speed of light.

Air can’t approach the speed of light, mass approach or reach SoL.

Bruh are you intentionally reading this wrong nothing is saying mass is going at the speed of light. The radio waves are literally going at 99.99% SoL

 

[SlendVeny]

Shigaraki is firing air forward, and the waves are traveling through the air. If anything, would it not be going faster since the air is moving forward at the same time?

 

[Maitreya12]

Bruh are you intentionally reading this wrong nothing is saying mass is going at the speed of light. The radio waves are literally going at 99.99% SoL

My friend I like you, I think you’re great, but come on I literally said “can’t approach OR reach” the speed of light.

Air can’t go 99.99% the speed of light either.

 

[SlendVeny]

Air can’t go 99.99% the speed of light either.

Not with that attitude.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[Maitreya12]

Shigaraki is firing air forward, and the waves are traveling through the air. If anything, would it not be going faster since the air is moving forward at the same time?

It wouldn’t be, and the reason is because photons are just energy and momentum, they have no mass to them.

If Shigaraki is firing air forward, and the waves are traveling through the air like you said then you either are saying the radio waves are propelling the air alongside it, at which point the momentum being transferred by the photons is actually incredibly small. Especially for radio waves which have smaller momentum. Or the air canon itself is just fired and is simply carrying radio waves inside of it, at which point we have no idea what speed it would be because it wouldn’t be based on the speed of the radio waves, but the speed at which Tomura propelled the air canons.

 

[Therefir]

This is fiction, the air can move as fast as the story wants it to.

Not Shigaraki casually having Matter Manipulation simply for firing two Quirks together, being able to combine the atoms inside a gas such as air, a state of matter, with an electromagnetic wave, the transmission of energy in the form of waves, creating new quasi-particles which are part-photons and part-atoms.

Nah, not likely, I vehemently disagree with your idea of the Air Cannon adding more mass to the Radio Waves (if we assume they already have mass through momentum, wouldn't adding more mass just increase their levels of energy?).

Current theories of physics do not even allow for such a massive photon to exist to begin with (since you are implying that Shigaraki's Radio Waves would have the mass of the air in the Air Cannon, and just because they were fired together), nor do they predict how fast such a photon would be.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with the OP.

(Though I will reserve my final opinion for after I go through more of the thread in detail)

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with CloverDragon0, Therefir, and Dalesean on this

 

[CloverDragon03]

In case it wasn't clear enough, I strongly disagree with the OP. Just wanted to get that out there

 

[TheRustyOne]

Pretty much disagree for all of the reasons above as well.

The premise the OP is bringing up is that mass was added to Radio Waves, which slows it down. But Burden of Proof an all of that, they've not provided proof of this.

Him firing Air Cannon + Radio Waves doesn't mean anything beyond... him firing Air Cannon and Radio Waves at the same time. If you want to claim something more, you'll need to provide proof of it. Heavy Payload is unknown and Quirk names don't always correlate to what a Quirk actually does.

Hellflame is not Hell Fire. Explosion doesn't explain it's nitro-like sweat. Danger Sense detects malicious intentions. And Decay was revealed to not be corrosion at all. Nothing to suggest it added heavy mass to Radio Waves and stopped it from moving like a photon. That's a massive assumption that requires actual evidence to claim.

If you had a flashlight and an air cannon shoot out of the same source at the exact same time. The light produced wouldn't be effected. The space is already occupied by air in the first place, so I don't even see the logic. Photon's don't have mass like we know, putting them in air doesn't magically make it move less.

They have to move a "greater" distance via refraction/diffusion. But the difference is so negligible that it's not worth taking into account here.

Note: This is fiction and it can do whatever it wants, obviously the idea is not impossible here. But nothing the OP provided suggest that Radio Waves gained actual mass.

 

[Chariot190]

Downgrade the feat by 0.1%

 

[TheRustyOne]

Actually it's a 0.04% decrease, but whatever.

 

[Raiden38]

Agree

 

[Chariot190]

Actually it's a 0.04% decrease, but whatever.

Downgrade it by 0.1% anyway, ya'll mha goons have it to GOOD lately

 

[Maitreya12]

But also because it’s fiction, radio waves can move as slow as the story wants it too.

Nah, not likely, I vehemently disagree with your idea of the Air Cannon adding more mass to the Radio Waves (if we assume they already have mass through momentum, wouldn't adding more mass just increase their levels of energy?).

Radio waves do not have mass. They are purely photons, only having energy and momentum but no mass, this is why this is an issue.

You’re literally adding mass to something that’s massless and still trying to claim it’s light speed.

Current theories of physics do not even allow for such a massive photon to exist to begin with (since you are implying that Shigaraki's Radio Waves would have the mass of the air in the Air Cannon, and just because they were fired together), nor do they predict how fast such a photon would be.

I’m not implying it would have the mass of the air canon either (we don’t even know what that mass is) nor am I trying to predict how fast the photon would be either. We wouldn’t be able to quantify how fast the attack would be.

The fact is though that the quirks were mixed and combined together. The calc is claiming that the attack moved at light speed because radio waves move at light speed, but the attack wasn’t purely radio waves. It was a combination of radio waves and other quirks like air canon and heavy payload.

Him firing Air Cannon + Radio Waves doesn't mean anything beyond... him firing Air Cannon and Radio Waves at the same time.

Except it’s not that he fired them at the same time, it’s that he combines them. It’s quirk combination, which we know is a mixture of quirks together.

Him mixing radio waves + air canon means he combined radio waves with air canons at the same time. But the calc assumes the attack is traveling is traveling at the same speed as the radio waves when there’s no evidence to say that.

 

[Ped2018]

My boy Maitreya12 came back from the dead just to get cooked

 

[RedReaper616]

I want to point out that no, assuming Heavy Payload is an enhancer isn’t a grander assumption. We’ve seen Air Cannon used by AFO, and we know other Quirks can enhance it. Further, we know size and power depends on that combination, as when AFO used it against All Might he needed 4 buffs to make it worth using for himself.

This is important, because we already know the function and power output of Radio Waves, which is negligible/not enough of an enhancement to achieve what we see here. That, combined with Air Cannon literally not capable of this level of power without incredible Quirk enhancement means Heavy Payload must be the enhancement Quirk.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I want to point out that no, assuming Heavy Payload is an enhancer isn’t a grander assumption.

That's not my intention.

I'm saying the idea it adds mass to Radio Waves is unfounded. It is a power up type Quirk, just that we don't know how it works beyond making things stronger.

Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

 

[RedReaper616]

That's not my intention.

I'm saying the idea it could add any mass to Radio Waves is unfounded. It's just a vague power up type Quirk, as we don't know how it works beyond making things stronger.

Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

Hm? No, you’re fine, I was referring to Maitreya’s comment.

No it is not.

“Air canon” would have mass to it, “air” itself has mass. Mass does not travel at light speed. If you’re combining quirks, you’ve mixed in mass with photons, thereby making it not light speed.



Is it not an assumption in of itself to assume that it’s “a power boost of the attack.”

That is also an assumption same as “big mass attack” or hell why is “power boost” not an assumption but “adds mass” is?

Also don’t quirk names literally give the general indications to the usage to their capabilities.

Decay
Creation
Float
Danger sense
……
“Air canon” “Radio Waves”

I think actually it’s a grander assumption for it to be a power boost since the term “heavy payload” indicates more mass rather a boost in power.