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Major Mortal Kombat Revision Part II

Yeah I was just suggesting what you said since we were talking about meteors until I remembered that you posted something about it here
 
Hmm... Let's step away from the numbers for a bit, and let's talk about the scaling - both skill and strength - and certain other stuff important to it for a bit.

Like say... How MKDA takes a good couple of years after MK4. Like for the highest length of time we can have, thanks to the "old" new timeline, is 20-22 years. Yes, yes, it is very likely the timeskip between MK4 to MKDA isn't as long as MKX, but it does still present the idea a good length of time has passed (and this is outright true as some character bios/endings mention many years has passed), and we know that quite a few characters have been training and getting strength to an unknown but likely notable degree as time passed. At the very least, Liu Kang was.

That isn't even counting the MK armageddon stuff that stated folks got stronger - and the MK:A intro where various character could throw hands with each other - and yeah... It is likely MK: A (or even as early as MK: DA) characters are vastly stronger than themselves during MK1-4. Or smth like that.

Hm... If the Klassic Characters get their own profiles. Would it be fair game for notable 2D characters like for example Johnny Cage to get a MK1-4 key (which could be 9-B thanks to my 9-B 2D MK calc) and a MK DA - A Key (which could be 9-A thanks to my small number of 3D MK 9-A calcs)?

Or is this too much work or my idea is dumb?
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Question. is DC vs MK canon to the midway games, or does it exist by itself like MK shaolin monks? Might be able to find something useful for Klassic MK, but not entirely sure.
Click to expand...
MK vs DC is pointed to take place between MK3 and MK4 if you play MK side of the story

MK9 has a scene in the flashbacks from Raiden warning his past self with a portal that only a stage from MK vs DC has it

MK11 has Liu Kang vs Raiden from MK vs DC story mode of MK side, along Dominic stating it was Kronika responsible on that being a thing

Injustice 2 and MK11 both acknowledge the crossover, as well as Raiden and Subzero actually going to the former world as confirmation

Its canon to both cuz midway and netherrealm arent separate eras in the same fashion DC does with new 52, post crisis and so on
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Hmm... Let's step away from the numbers for a bit, and let's talk about the scaling - both skill and strength - and certain other stuff important to it for a bit.

Like say... How MKDA takes a good couple of years after MK4. Like for the highest length of time we can have, thanks to the "old" new timeline, is 20-22 years. Yes, yes, it is very likely the timeskip between MK4 to MKDA isn't as long as MKX, but it does still present the idea a good length of time has passed (and this is outright true as some character bios/endings mention many years has passed), and we know that quite a few characters have been training and getting strength to an unknown but likely notable degree as time passed. At the very least, Liu Kang was.

That isn't even counting the MK armageddon stuff that stated folks got stronger - and the MK:A intro where various character could throw hands with each other - and yeah... It is likely MK: A (or even as early as MK: DA) characters are vastly stronger than themselves during MK1-4. Or smth like that.

Hm... If the Klassic Characters get their own profiles. Would it be fair game for notable 2D characters like for example Johnny Cage to get a MK1-4 key (which could be 9-B thanks to my 9-B 2D MK calc) and a MK DA - A Key (which could be 9-A thanks to my small number of 3D MK 9-A calcs)?

Or is this too much work or my idea is dumb?
Click to expand...
Wall level 2D MK characters isn't a thing because the strongest TYM feat in 1992 MK is 9-A

Only a few characters get a boost in power tbh, those being Sub-Zero from the Medallion in MKDA, Scorpion in Deception becoming the Elder Gods' servant, Shao Kahn from his accelerated development, etc.
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Wall level 2D MK characters isn't a thing because the strongest TYM feat in 1992 MK is 9-A

Only a few characters get a boost in power tbh, those being Sub-Zero from the Medallion in MKDA, Scorpion in Deception becoming the Elder Gods' servant, Shao Kahn from his accelerated development, etc.
Click to expand...
Can you link that feat here?

Also.
ShadowWhoWalks said:
In Mortal Kombat: Deception, Raiden makes a statement that a champion of the Elder Gods has the strength of 10 warriors. So at most, mid and low tier characters pre-Armageddon cannot downscale by more than that (since Raiden could have referred to fodder nameless warriors).

If we don't divide by 3 in Taven's pillar calc (due to the cutscenes where a Yeti one-shots a pillar, and Sonia killing a Yeti with a single headshot), the downscale would result in 9-B+.
Click to expand...
While this probably won't work on the division end, the multiplier end might still be a go. I.E, "Raiden makes a statement that a champion of the Elder Gods has the strength of 10 warriors", assuming this multiplier can work on one of my 100 MJ 9-A calcs, it might net a 8-C result that can help add consistency for rain and sub-zero 8-C stuff... and possibly that Taven calc, that I'll work on when I feel like it lol, if everything works out
 
Bump

Btw, about 8-C high tiers, count Raiden in with them as well for actually channeling cloud-to-ground lightning in his attacks, as shown in one of his fatalities

Some high tiers I can think of (as in those who are 8-C in stats all around, not only a specific attack)
  • Elder Gods' Servant Scorpion
  • Sub-Zero amped by Dragon Medallion and his ancestral armor
  • Raiden
  • Shao Kahn
  • Taven and perhaps Daegon
  • Blaze
  • Shinnok
  • Shang Tsung
  • Quan Chi
  • Onaga without any Kamidogu
  • Shujinko
  • Liu Kang
Subject to change
 
Last edited:
Well well well, with my power of harrashment contacting, i can ask some of CGM to evaluate the calcs as much as i can

Tho not now, it's almost 00:00 AM here lel
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Wait I think they're all evaluated by CGM already, just waiting for one last calc
Click to expand...
stairs-steps.gif
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Back. Here. Got one 9-B result and got one low 9-A result but is only 1.75642126x weaker than Taven's own 9-A feat... Also 5.26926378x weaker if we count that giant one-shotting the pillar. I think I've a couple more MK feats, but they'll probably be in the range of mid-high 9-B to low 9-A if this pattern keeps up.
Click to expand...
Btw, about Sektor falling through the stone platform, I think you can use 5 feet 11 inches for his height since Cyrax in MKDA is this height, plus they're pretty much the same height being palette swaps of each other. Sorry if this means you have to go through it all again, but I'm not too versed with calcs
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Some high tiers I can think of (as in those who are 8-C in stats all around, not only a specific attack)
  • Elder Gods' Servant Scorpion
  • Sub-Zero amped by Dragon Medallion and his ancestral armor
  • Raiden
  • Shao Kahn
  • Taven and perhaps Daegon
  • Blaze
  • Shinnok
  • Shang Tsung
  • Quan Chi
  • Onaga without any Kamidogu
  • Shujinko
  • Liu Kang
Subject to change
Click to expand...
I think Shang Tsung and Quan Chi should each have their own profiles for both timelines, as in the classic one I believe they are that strong since the Deadly Alliance whereas in the new timeline (or last one) they're jobbers.
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Btw, about Sektor falling through the stone platform, I think you can use 5 feet 11 inches for his height since Cyrax in MKDA is this height, plus they're pretty much the same height being palette swaps of each other. Sorry if this means you have to go through it all again, but I'm not too versed with calcs
Click to expand...
That is in Cyrax's DA Bio, right? Am just making sure.
 
Eficiente said:
I think Shang Tsung and Quan Chi should each have their own profiles for both timelines, as in the classic one I believe they are that strong since the Deadly Alliance whereas in the new timeline (or last one) they're jobbers.
Click to expand...
Yeah I had separate profiles in mind making this list
FantaRin_The_First said:
That is in Cyrax's DA Bio, right? Am just making sure.
Click to expand...
Not his bio but the little info you see in fighter select screen in MKDA. But yeah 5'11'' is Cyrax's (and Sektor's by scaling) height
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Bump

Btw, about 8-C high tiers, count Raiden in with them as well for actually channeling cloud-to-ground lightning in his attacks, as shown in one of his fatalities

Some high tiers I can think of (as in those who are 8-C in stats all around, not only a specific attack)
  • Elder Gods' Servant Scorpion
  • Sub-Zero amped by Dragon Medallion and his ancestral armor
  • Raiden
  • Shao Kahn
  • Taven and perhaps Daegon
  • Blaze
  • Shinnok
  • Shang Tsung
  • Quan Chi
  • Onaga without any Kamidogu
  • Shujinko
  • Liu Kang
Subject to change
Click to expand...
I'd say Bi-Han too thanks to Mythology and in Armageddon he beat SubZero with the dragon medallion off-screen
Scorpion killing him should probably be considered an outlier since Bi-Han was capable of beating Scorpion twice in Mythology both as a human and post-death
 
Genericstickman said:
I'd say Bi-Han too thanks to Mythology and in Armageddon he beat SubZero with the dragon medallion off-screen
Scorpion killing him should probably be considered an outlier since Bi-Han was capable of beating Scorpion twice in Mythology both as a human and post-death
Click to expand...
Why can't Scorpion have just grown stronger or more skilled since their last fight?
 
Genericstickman said:
I'd say Bi-Han too thanks to Mythology and in Armageddon he beat SubZero with the dragon medallion off-screen
Scorpion killing him should probably be considered an outlier since Bi-Han was capable of beating Scorpion twice in Mythology both as a human and post-death
Click to expand...
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Why can't Scorpion have just grown stronger or more skilled since their last fight?
Click to expand...
Scorpion prior to any explicit boosts is in a strange place. It seems he did kill Bi-Han but it wasn't shown how and no fight was mentioned in the MK2 comic where Bi-Han was revealed to be killed, unlike in MK9 where he beat him in a fight before he finished him off. He was also "overpowered" by lesser fighters like the combined might of Moloch and Drahmin in MKDA. Typical fighting game scaling, I suppose.

Not to mention that there doesn't seem to be any mention of Scorpion receiving a boost until Deception when he became the Elder Gods' servant
 
Oh you were done adjusting already, didn't know that.

There was a feat where Sonya seems to dodge plasma bolts in the MK 1992 comic. And Kano appears to dodge an explosion from said plasma bolts hitting a stack of oil barrels too.
 
Don't think the plasma with get anything... Mostly cuz there is no stated speed for it and we really can't "guess" the speed of a fictional gun. And can't get anything out of the explosion since, well, that is the limitation of print media without any visual media to back it up, i.e, give exact timeframes to figure out how much time a feat took (and how much ground was covered) like Kano jumping to the boat after the explosion and whatnot.
 
Looks like it's just Peak Human move speed with Subsonic reactions from scaling to Kabal then :(

Actually they might all be MHS+ scaling to Quan Chi blocking lightning if no character has outliers
 
Antvasima said:
What currently needs to be done here?
Click to expand...
I gotta re-do some stuff in my MK calcs to follow what KL to get 'em approved, but other than that... not much is left. We already got stats covered and the scaling chain sorted out, so after everything is sorted in my end, I think all that is left, after a bit more talking to cover our bases, is to do stuff for the profiles... which is a major, major task in itself.
 
Question about Onaga not scaling to Kahn, wouldn't it be acceptable to just assume they're relative to each other rather than one being stronger than the other? Would line up with Kahn not wanting to fight him head on previously and rather going with the poison route.
 
Eficiente said:
I think Shang Tsung and Quan Chi should each have their own profiles for both timelines, as in the classic one I believe they are that strong since the Deadly Alliance whereas in the new timeline (or last one) they're jobbers.
Click to expand...
Agreed, though Shang is the strongest vilain yet in Aftermath
 
CBslayeR said:
Question about Onaga not scaling to Kahn, wouldn't it be acceptable to just assume they're relative to each other rather than one being stronger than the other? Would line up with Kahn not wanting to fight him head on previously and rather going with the poison route.
Click to expand...
I'd say just relative but Prime Shao should be slightly stronger since he killed him and has multiple means of growing stronger (AD and Souls)
 
CBslayeR said:
Question about Onaga not scaling to Kahn, wouldn't it be acceptable to just assume they're relative to each other rather than one being stronger than the other? Would line up with Kahn not wanting to fight him head on previously and rather going with the poison route.
Click to expand...
Hellbeast said:
I'd say just relative but Prime Shao should be slightly stronger since he killed him and has multiple means of growing stronger (AD and Souls)
Click to expand...
Going by Shao Kahn's ending in MKD/U, Shao Kahn and Onaga have fought in "kombat" before, "kombat" being a fight as defined by other uses of this particular word in MK lore. But Onaga was known to be too strong to defeat in kombat by Shao, so he just killed him by sending him flying to Goro's poison blades. I think their fight in this ending was like the typical MK match, but instead of whittling down his health bar in 2 or 3 rounds, he just went straight to finishing him with a fatality.

Make of that as you will
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Going by Shao Kahn's ending in MKD/U, Shao Kahn and Onaga have fought in "kombat" before, "kombat" being a fight as defined by other uses of this particular word in MK lore. But Onaga was known to be too strong to defeat in kombat by Shao, so he just killed him by sending him flying to Goro's poison blades. I think their fight in this ending was like the typical MK match, but instead of whittling down his health bar in 2 or 3 rounds, he just went straight to finishing him with a fatality.

Make of that as you will
Click to expand...
TBH I do question using arcade endings like this one
 
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