Major Mortal Kombat Revision Part II

[Hellbeast]

Armageddon just do be giving low-tier characters the ability to fight high-tier characters cuz of power boost and it being the last mainline game (MK vs DC is in a weird spot, tho)...

Although... Well, I have to ask... Are we going to give characters keys that pertain to the different eras? I.E, a MKI-MKIV key (that is 9-A), and a MK: DA to MK: A (that is 8-C)? Like the 8-C stuff only comes from the 3D games and there is an in-verse time-skip and we do know that characters got stronger over time after all. idk. Ideas?

Funnily it's consistent with the plot mentioning everyone got stronger. As for keys, I'd suggest Armageddon specifically gets it's own since that's when everything got crazy

Maybe but instead of keys from different eras they will just get unique keys. For example, the younger Sub-Zero (fun fact: he was never named Kuai Liang until MK9) would have his Base Sub-Zero key and his Grandmaster key because he was amplified by both the Dragon Medallion in MKDA and the armor of his ancestors in MKD when he reclaimed the Dragon Medallion and the Lin Kuei from Sektor in a battle

I think Sub could justifiably get three, Arkade Era (MKII - IV), 3D Era/Post-Dragon Medallion (Deadly Alliance and Deception) and Armageddon. Scorpion could get the same (Base, Champion of the Elder Gods and Armageddon). This does make me wonder how Rain would be handled though

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Wouldn't his Armageddon key be equal to his Dragon Medallion one since that's one of the feats the high tiers scale to? I don't see why he needs an Armageddon key, I presume he joins the fight with this level of power

Speaking of Armageddon, do all kombatants get to have the powers that they gain from killing Blaze in their endings? I know some of them are crazy but I'd like to know what we think about this, just in case it gets brought up

 

[Hellbeast]

I'm pretty sure everyone just gets called out as stronger tbh. As for Blaze, then I'd say no since Shao canonically wins the Battle of Armageddon

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'm pretty sure everyone just gets called out as stronger tbh. As for Blaze, then I'd say no since Shao canonically wins the Battle of Armageddon

Then what will his stats look like if he has the Arkade, Post Dragon Medallion, and the Armageddon keys?

Also it's a shame we can't use those, lots of decent hax and powers in those endings. Also, some Blaze lore from former MK writer John Vogel

"Blaze is a firespawn who was created by an Edenian sorceress. His initial purpose was to wander the realms and keep an eye out for super powered warriors: Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, even Raiden. The sorceress had a vision that eventually there would be too many of these superpowered warriors and eventually will cause Armageddon."

So even the writers' standards for what we'd call a high tier character are the likes of Shang, Shao, and Raiden. He doesn't seem to imply that these three grew stronger as Armageddon drew closer but rather lesser fighters become as strong as they are, so not all of them will get an Armageddon key like these three. They're already powerful as is

 

[Hellbeast]

Ah I see, that does make more sense then. Shang being super powered also helps confirm Liu Kang is > other characters since he beat his ass (both in lore and in the MK9 flashes when Raiden resets the timeline). Shang is weird though since he seemingly grows more powerful twice (in MKII I think he's stated to grow stronger and in the 3d Era)

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Ah I see, that does make more sense then. Shang being super powered also helps confirm Liu Kang is > other characters since he beat his ass (both in lore and in the MK9 flashes when Raiden resets the timeline). Shang is weird though since he seemingly grows more powerful twice (in MKII I think he's stated to grow stronger and in the 3d Era)

For MK2, I believe it was because his body and soul was remade from Outworld elements (since he was born in Earthrealm) in addition to bonus amps from Shao

I believe the 3D era one was because he was eating good from the soulnado that Quan Chi opened in MKDA and even after he lost his physical form to Raiden's self destruct in MKD, he simply harvested more souls once Shao gave him a new form in MKA

 

[Hellbeast]

Worth noting Shang describes the process as "renewing his strength" and "replenishing his sorcery". Also while I'm here, I think I found a new feat, page 17 shows Shang Tsung sending Cage through a concrete wall with Jax doing the same to Kintaro on page 21. Might be a decent supporting feat

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Worth noting Shang describes the process as "renewing his strength" and "replenishing his sorcery". Also while I'm here, I think I found a new feat, page 17 shows Shang Tsung sending Cage through a concrete wall with Jax doing the same to Kintaro on page 21. Might be a decent supporting feat

Eh I think we have enough Wall level and Small Building level feats, might not be a need to pile more calcs on those who can

 

[Hellbeast]

Perhaps a backup scan then

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Worth noting Shang describes the process as "renewing his strength" and "replenishing his sorcery". Also while I'm here, I think I found a new feat, page 17 shows Shang Tsung sending Cage through a concrete wall with Jax doing the same to Kintaro on page 21. Might be a decent supporting feat

When does this happen, if it isn't a bother for me to ask. I can probably calc it out in my off-time.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I'm pretty sure everyone just gets called out as stronger tbh. As for Blaze, then I'd say no since Shao canonically wins the Battle of Armageddon

Hm. Hypothetical question, would this mean that Shao Kahn might be able to get a Blaze key? Sure it is in NRS territory but as you said it is canon he won canonically, and MK: A does show off a few neat hax that Shao Kahn might theoretically have. Am totally not saying this cuz I just want the cooler Shao Kahn to have some cool shit, xD.

 

[Hellbeast]

Hm. Hypothetical question, would this mean that Shao Kahn might be able to get a Blaze key? Sure it is in NRS territory but as you said it is canon he won canonically, and MK: A does show off a few neat hax that Shao Kahn might theoretically have. Am totally not saying this cuz I just want the cooler Shao Kahn to have some cool shit, xD.

Yep I'd say so as for the comic here it is, it's on pages 19 and 21

 

[Genericstickman]

I might ask is it possible to scale some of the high tier characters to the power of a single kamidogu or no?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Yes I think there's just Shujinko with the combined power of many fighters who broke the Kamidogu and Onaga who gains protection from each one. Why?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yes I think there's just Shujinko with the combined power of many fighters who broke the Kamidogu and Onaga who gains protection from each one. Why?

Hm... Technically speaking... The Kamidogu protected Onaga from 4.57470315962 Kilotons blast (according to this calc), meaning, a single Kamidogu is capable of protecting Onaga from an attack worth 653.529022 tons of tnt and thus Shujinko is able to shatter objects that is capable of withstanding 653.529022 tons of tnt - but since this is only an "amp" bought by the combined power of the (at least) twenty-six fighters in MK: D, everybody's power is only worth about 25.1357316 Tons normally.

From my own observation of MK: D's intro and playing the arcade mode, the Kamidogu only provide Onaga with immense durability than anything considering the fact that Shang Tsung and Quan Chi's combined attacks can push Onaga back and make him groan in pain and with Raiden's help this effect happened again but to a higher degree and Onaga was even struggling at points to fight against the attack... oh, and of course, characters can "harm" Onaga in Arcade mode but do extremely "little" damage and it is basically a massive help to break all of the Kamidogus if you don't want to cheese Onaga.

 

[Genericstickman]

well at the end of Conquest Mode it was said that individually each have a fraction of the power needed to create the realms (smash The One Being)
Shinnok's Ammulate may also be included in this too but that's debatable

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Hm... Technically speaking... The Kamidogu protected Onaga from 4.57470315962 Kilotons blast (according to this calc), meaning, a single Kamidogu is capable of protecting Onaga from an attack worth 653.529022 tons of tnt and thus Shujinko is able to shatter objects that is capable of withstanding 653.529022 tons of tnt - but since this is only an "amp" bought by the combined power of the (at least) twenty-six fighters in MK: D, everybody's power is only worth about 25.1357316 Tons normally.

From my own observation of MK: D's intro and playing the arcade mode, the Kamidogu only provide Onaga with immense durability than anything considering the fact that Shang Tsung and Quan Chi's combined attacks can push Onaga back and make him groan in pain and with Raiden's help this effect happened again but to a higher degree and Onaga was even struggling at points to fight against the attack... oh, and of course, characters can "harm" Onaga in Arcade mode but do extremely "little" damage and it is basically a massive help to break all of the Kamidogus if you don't want to cheese Onaga.

All characters beating Onaga in arcade mode is probably not canon since even though they beat him, the ending depicts something else differently, like Kenshi's ending having nothing to do with the Dragon King, plus most of the endings that have Onaga reference the warriors gathering together to fight and kill Onaga (implying that Shujinko was there to gather their powers for him to absorb) which is the canon ending as shown in Onaga's bio in MKA when he references his death by the hands of Shujinko with the powers of the kombatants present and Nightwolf with his ritual.

And I personally feel like everyone being 25 tons is an outlier with our abundance of 9-A and 8-C feats.

well at the end of Conquest Mode it was said that individually each have a fraction of the power needed to create the realms (smash The One Being)
Shinnok's Ammulate may also be included in this too but that's debatable

I think a fraction of the One Being who is 2-C would make all of the Kamidogu Low 2-C. What are you implying with this?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

All characters beating Onaga in arcade mode is probably not canon since even though they beat him, the ending depicts something else differently, like Kenshi's ending having nothing to do with the Dragon King, plus most of the endings that have Onaga reference the warriors gathering together to fight and kill Onaga (implying that Shujinko was there to gather their powers for him to absorb) which is the canon ending as shown in Onaga's bio in MKA when he references his death by the hands of Shujinko with the powers of the kombatants present and Nightwolf with his ritual.

And I personally feel like everyone being 25 tons is an outlier with our abundance of 9-A and 8-C feats.

Was more so just pointing out that even with the Kamidogu, Onaga can still be affected by other kombats' attacks to the point that he groans in pain, both from the gameplay standpoint and from MK: D's intro.

And, to be fair, all of the 9-A and 8-C feats are things that either the kombats can do casually (Test your might) or something that doesn't do too much to 'em (the bridge feat). Granted, I think I found a feat for Blaze that's around Low 7-B-ish range (and I think there is a 7-B calc for Rain), so that might push the cap a bit... oh, am doing another series of mortal kombat calcs in one userblog again, should be done in a day or two, btw.

I think a fraction of the One Being who is 2-C would make all of the Kamidogu Low 2-C. What are you implying with this?

Low 2-C doesn't exist anymore. So the Kamidogu's would just be 2-C. And I think they are implying Shujinko (Kombats abosrbed) and Onaga should be 2-C due to Kamidogu, and all the other kombats should be 2-C as well via downscaling to Shujinko or smth. Probably smth along those lines.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

For Onaga to access the full power of the Kamidogu, he needed to enact a ritual to merge them into one ultimate Kamidogu, and Shujinko destroyed each Kamidogu held by Onaga before they can be fused.
Also, Shattering the Kamidogu is stated to have removed Onaga's invulnerability and weakened him before Shujinko attacked him mercilessly, so Shujinko with the power of other Kombatants doesn't necessarily scale to the Kamidogu powered Onaga, as the Kamidogu could be weakpoints Shujinko targetted with skill and speed.

This is reflected in this NPC dialogue:

"To defeat the Dragon King, you must take from him that which makes him strong."

Also, this dialogue seems to imply that each Kamidogu is capable of providing Onaga with invulnerability, since he can only use one of them at a time?

"Each Kamidogu can only be used by one individual, but Onaga seeks to fuse them all into one so that he may utilize their combined power."

---

Interesting NPC dialogue from Deception has these statements about the One Being viewing the realms as part of his dreams or consciousness; can they result in an upgrade to the cosmology through qualitative superiority? If so, would this apply to Environmental Destruction Kronika and other Titans may have due to Dominic's Twitter statements that Titans are above the One Being?

"All of existence is merely the dreams of the One Being."

"The realms are, in fact, the shattered consciousness of a singular being."

EDIT: Also mentioned as a background information in Kai's Armageddon ending:

"The power of Blaze opened Kai's mind, and he became psychically linked to the One Being. He could see the One Being's dreams, from which all of reality is formed. In deep meditation, Kai allowed his mind to wander the realms in search of knowledge. He witnessed the rise of Shao Kahn and his eventual demise at the hand of Liu Kang, the return of the Dragon King and the final battle at the pyramid. But when Kai looked to the future, he saw nothing."

There are also these statements giving gods additional immortality and resurrection:

"Raiden will return from annihilation, though he will not be as he once was."

"The Gods do not truly die; they merely dissipate until they can be reformed."

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Probably best for another CRT entirely, methinks. Mostly because MK's lore is a mess in itself rn, and it is going to be a major headache in trying to deal all of that god tier stuff when we are only about 50% done with the normal cast stuff.

 

[y3p_owo]

Low 2-C doesn't exist anymore. So the Kamidogu's would just be 2-C. And I think they are implying Shujinko (Kombats abosrbed) and Onaga should be 2-C due to Kamidogu, and all the other kombats should be 2-C as well via downscaling to Shujinko or smth. Probably smth along those lines.

I mean tbf, amps in MK are weird. Like, Sindel after being amped by MK9 Shang Tsung's power, who's pretty much a massive jobber, was capable of clapping all the heroes in the MK3 portion of the game minus Liu Kang and Raiden, which was due to them being away at the time.

Not only that, there's also Fire God Liu Kang, who's reason to exist was thanks to Raiden effectively fusing with Post-Soul Stealing Revenant Liu Kang (Which now that I'm thinking about it, I don't really get how that works. But oh well, that doesn't really matter here.), turning him into someone on par with Kronika, who iirc, we're planning making above The One Being. Like, would that mean MK9 Raiden in the MK2 portion is Kronika tier?

I personally think we shouldn't really allow people who amp others to scale to the ones they're amping, but that's just me.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I mean tbf, amps in MK are weird. Like, Sindel after being amped by MK9 Shang Tsung's power, who's pretty much a massive jobber, was capable of clapping all the heroes in the MK3 portion of the game minus Liu Kang and Raiden, which was due to them being away at the time.

Not only that, there's also Fire God Liu Kang, who's reason to exist was thanks to Raiden effectively fusing with Post-Soul Stealing Revenant Liu Kang (Which now that I'm thinking about it, I don't really get how that works. But oh well, that doesn't really matter here.), turning him into someone on par with Kronika, who iirc, we're planning making above The One Being. Like, would that mean MK9 Raiden in the MK2 portion is Kronika tier?

I personally think we shouldn't really allow people who amp others to scale to the ones they're amping, but that's just me.

That is NRS Era stuff. Klassic/Midway Era stuff doesn't have as many problem as NRS' scaling. Probably. At the very least, Klassic Era doesn't have a comic series that is effectively non-canon and useless to the scaling, among, many other issues.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Was more so just pointing out that even with the Kamidogu, Onaga can still be affected by other kombats' attacks to the point that he groans in pain, both from the gameplay standpoint and from MK: D's intro.

And, to be fair, all of the 9-A and 8-C feats are things that either the kombats can do casually (Test your might) or something that doesn't do too much to 'em (the bridge feat). Granted, I think I found a feat for Blaze that's around Low 7-B-ish range (and I think there is a 7-B calc for Rain), so that might push the cap a bit... oh, am doing another series of mortal kombat calcs in one userblog again, should be done in a day or two, btw.


Low 2-C doesn't exist anymore. So the Kamidogu's would just be 2-C. And I think they are implying Shujinko (Kombats abosrbed) and Onaga should be 2-C due to Kamidogu, and all the other kombats should be 2-C as well via downscaling to Shujinko or smth. Probably smth along those lines.

Confusing scaling aside, what is this Low 7-B feat for Blaze and 7-B calc for Rain?

I'm guessing this is the storm that appeared when Blaze's pyramid rose from the ground and I think Rain's calc is about his super roundhouse?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

Would the Low 7-B Blaze feat only apply to the kombatants during Armageddon? Or would we treat the top tiers like Shao and Raiden as being pretty much the same strength even in games beforehand and scale them to it since we know the former defeated Blaze (Provided we don't treat the feat as an outlier).

Also what's the speed consensus? I know we got subsonic stuff for standard peeps but are we still gonna treat Raidens lightning as having the speed of actual lightning and make top tiers massively hypersonic+? Pretty sure we have a calc for Quan Chi blocking his lightning in the Deception intro. Sorry if this already been discussed and answered I but don't feel like going through 4 pages atm.

 

[Firestorm808]

Sorry for the sidebar, but was there an explanation as to how Quan Chi and Shang Sung survived Raiden's Suicide Explosion?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Sorry for the sidebar, but was there an explanation as to how Quan Chi and Shang Sung survived Raiden's Suicide Explosion?

Quan Chi just teleports away (It's really hard to see tho) and Shang Tsung explictly doesn't survive, he dies from the blast and needs his soul put into a new body made by Shao Kahn

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Would the Low 7-B Blaze feat only apply to the kombatants during Armageddon? Or would we treat the top tiers like Shao and Raiden as being pretty much the same strength even in games beforehand and scale them to it since we know the former defeated Blaze (Provided we don't treat the feat as an outlier).

I would say the former since we know the kombatants explictly got stronger during the lead up and to the actual events of Armageddon (plus, Blaze is treated as the top of the scaling food chain if my memory serves me right), and that any of the kombatants could've theoretically beaten him even if Shao Kahn was the one who did the job (and I think it was implied Dark Raiden in Midway's timeline did fight Blaze-boosted Shao Kahn for a bit, so there is that).

... Oh, if my memory is correct, Shao Kahn also got a explict 10x boost after he defeated Blaze and had his powers added to his, so a Blaze-boosted Shao Kahn key would be 10x his usual stats.

Also what's the speed consensus? I know we got subsonic stuff for standard peeps but are we still gonna treat Raidens lightning as having the speed of actual lightning and make top tiers massively hypersonic+? Pretty sure we have a calc for Quan Chi blocking his lightning in the Deception intro. Sorry if this already been discussed and answered I but don't feel like going through 4 pages atm.

Am pretty sure it was just decided to make everyone MHS+ due to accepting Raiden's lightning as actual lightning and Jax fighting equally with Quan Chi in the Armageddon intro (and we know that intro is canon). Oh, also, Stryker reacted and grabbed Kabal while he was in mid-dash, so I think that means if the MHS+ is out, we could just make Armageddon kombatants subsonic in speed all around.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

How about Rain feat? Does it scale to anybody?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

How about Rain feat? Does it scale to anybody?

It is an NRS era feat, sadly. So doesn't scale to anybody here.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

It is an NRS era feat, sadly. So doesn't scale to anybody here.

So what was the Low 7-B feat from Blaze? I didn't get any answers yet

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It is an NRS era feat, sadly. So doesn't scale to anybody here.

Even for the NRS Era kombatants?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So what was the Low 7-B feat from Blaze? I didn't get any answers yet

Mortal Kombat Time II Electric Boogaloo

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here you go. This fanta forgot. Kek. Already messaged a CGM about it. Also calc'ed the Taven feat. The low end is 1.62464627 Tons [8-C+] (which can easily be upscaled to baseline H8-C), and the highest end is 6.49858507 Tons [H8-C+].

Even for the NRS Era kombatants?

Idk. This CRT is only for the Midway Era cast, atm.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Mortal Kombat Time II Electric Boogaloo

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here you go. This fanta forgot. Kek. Already messaged a CGM about it. Also calc'ed the Taven feat. The low end is 1.62464627 Tons [8-C+] (which can easily be upscaled to baseline H8-C), and the highest end is 6.49858507 Tons [H8-C+].

Idk. This CRT is only for the Midway Era cast, atm.

What the hell, how tf did I miss that cloud feat? Either way that's awesome, looks like tier 7 is back on the menu for everyone

And yes this is only for the Midway era to keep it organized. I have a few things to add for the NRS era after this is done

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

What the hell, how tf did I miss that cloud feat? Either way that's awesome, looks like tier 7 is back on the menu for everyone

Honestly, I missed it too until I decided to rewatch the intro again out of the blue. xD. But of course only for Armageddon people.

And yes this is only for the Midway era to keep it organized. I have a few things to add for the NRS era after this is done

If you need calcs or anything, i'mma your gal for it, xD. Honestly, I've been thinking of doing some stuff for the Legends. Y'know, cuz of the Johnny Cage movie and me watching snow blind and enjoying it, but one thing at a time.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Okay cool, the calcs look good to me and I guess we just have to wait now

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@FantaRin_The_First You should ask the other CGM as well for double measure

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

@FantaRin_The_First You should ask the other CGM as well for double measure

Already did two. Will wait for about a few days before contacting more.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Already did two. Will wait for about a few days before contacting more.

How about don't stop and do it more just like what i did with harrashing many of the CGM

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

How about don't stop and do it more just like what i did with harrashing many of the CGM

I refuse. And if you do it yourself, I'll be very, very (mildly) bothered by it, xD.