- 9,023
- 1,754
Since the first one is almost finished, I will proceed with the next one.
This will cover the Midway MK profiles since we all agreed to King's proposal to separate them. While I have my own proposals here, anyone is welcome to present their own as long as they have something to back it up.
AP and Durability
I don't know where to start with this, but maybe I'll start with feats that we already use.
If you've been in the days when Raiden was Low 7-C, the explanation for his tier will link you to a calc of his temple busting feat. The problem with this feat is that we scaled this to Raiden's durability and then scaled it to pretty much anyone who could spill his blood and break his bones. This includes Shujinko, Onaga, etc. Thing is, the feat in question is a self-destruct feat that required Raiden to sacrifice his "godlike essence" to create an "intense ethereal blast" in an effort to stop Onaga. So scaling him to a feat that made him kaboom is just not valid. Let's not forget that Onaga was actually protected by all (six?) Kamidogu, which is the source of his invulnerability (hence Shujinko needed to destroy them to affect him)
So what does this mean for Raiden and the others who scale to him? For Raiden, he's still keeping the Low 7-C rating, but only for his self-destruct attack. His new rating will look like this: Unknown physically, Low 7-C with self-destruction. To those whose ratings derived from that feat, it just looks like that they'll have to find another one to scale to. Which will apply to the likes of Raiden, the Deadly Alliance, Shao Kahn, Onaga (without Kamidogu), Shujinko, etc. Although this is definitely subject to change knowing MK's scaling. Perhaps they can scale to Raiden's lightning since they tank the full energy of Raiden's lightning powers (especially the Deadly Alliance)
As for the low tiers, I think they would scale to Wall level feats. Drahmin has a wall busting feat where he breaks the bigger rocks blocking the entrance of a Netherrealm structure (the feat comes from MKDA's Konquest Mode, which lacks visuals but has written lore instead), Kano and Jarek survived falling from great heights (they were severely injured by that but that's definitely something), etc. Their durability would scale to Cyrax's bombs, since Moloch and Drahmin were able to take damage from them, except they fled before Cyrax could spit out another bomb. I'm not keen on using TYM feats since the feats I mentioned kinda contradict with the highest ratings of TYM feats (breaking diamond blocks is 9-A but low tiers get hurt by lesser attacks) but maybe they can still use any TYM feat that's within wall level.
For those between the low and high tiers, Kintaro has this special move where he uses his breath to suck people towards him as shown here. IIRC there was a JoJo calc that was similar to this one but Kintaro's feat is weaker. It might work though. Sub-Zero also gained an exponential power boost from his ancestral armor and the Dragon Amulet, and with the amulet he was able to release a blast that froze multiple enemies at once. He resists the powers of this amulet, so that would scale to his durability. Same with Taven who was hardly inconvenienced with Sub-Zero blasting everyone in the room with no regards to his allies.
For the high tiers, they'd scale to Raiden's lightning and Taven's assortment of feats in his Konquest mode, which includes destroying a massive Shao Kahn statue and slamming the ground to create fiery shockwaves. I'm sure there is a lot of feats that I missed out seeing how we're talking about an old game where the lore is widely dispersed from the games.
Onaga
Onaga is a pretty special case here, so I made a section for himself. This will talk about his overall stats.
There's a lot of hype around Onaga being the most powerful character but that power only comes from his grand plan of trickery of deceit, stealing the Kamidogu through his agent Shujinko before using all of them to protect him as well as shape all of reality. His true strength doesn't actually lie in his physicals, but his smarts.
Physically, his power is actually very ambiguous. Apparently, people use the reasoning of "Shao poisoned Onaga since he was afraid of fighting him directly" to say that he's superior to him, but I'd argue Shao Kahn actually has better feats than Onaga himself.
That aside, Onaga would have a different rating instead. He will now have two keys instead, one where he has no Kamidogu and one where he has the Kamidogu. His base key will scale to the high tiers since he was able to overwhelm Shao Kahn at the Pyramid, but he might be lower than Shujinko when he absorbed everyone's abilities. As for his Kamidogu key, he would likely be Low 2-C since the Kamidogu were the same tools that shattered the One Being into the many realms we know, and each Kamidogu is the essence of one realm. Individually they are weak since Shujinko with everyone's powers was able to break them one by one, but fusing them together creates an ultimate tool that would allow him mastery over reality itself. Said power rendered him invulnerable as well, so it could scale to his durability too.
Speed
Speed in the Midway games is pretty rare and weak, especially reaction speed. Only high tiers like Quan Chi get the privilege of reacting to Raiden's lightning attacks. Before anyone brings up the feat where Sonya dodges Kano's plasma rounds in the MK1 comic made to explain the lore of the arcade game, she makes it clear that Kano wasn't aiming for her but the explosive barrels behind her back. Maybe it could work if you can convince me that she actually dodged those. Plus Kano did jump out of the explosion that he caused afterwards, so you can appraise that if it's valid or not.
Note that this is all subject to change, since you can add your own input here. Discuss away.
This will cover the Midway MK profiles since we all agreed to King's proposal to separate them. While I have my own proposals here, anyone is welcome to present their own as long as they have something to back it up.
AP and Durability
I don't know where to start with this, but maybe I'll start with feats that we already use.
If you've been in the days when Raiden was Low 7-C, the explanation for his tier will link you to a calc of his temple busting feat. The problem with this feat is that we scaled this to Raiden's durability and then scaled it to pretty much anyone who could spill his blood and break his bones. This includes Shujinko, Onaga, etc. Thing is, the feat in question is a self-destruct feat that required Raiden to sacrifice his "godlike essence" to create an "intense ethereal blast" in an effort to stop Onaga. So scaling him to a feat that made him kaboom is just not valid. Let's not forget that Onaga was actually protected by all (six?) Kamidogu, which is the source of his invulnerability (hence Shujinko needed to destroy them to affect him)
So what does this mean for Raiden and the others who scale to him? For Raiden, he's still keeping the Low 7-C rating, but only for his self-destruct attack. His new rating will look like this: Unknown physically, Low 7-C with self-destruction. To those whose ratings derived from that feat, it just looks like that they'll have to find another one to scale to. Which will apply to the likes of Raiden, the Deadly Alliance, Shao Kahn, Onaga (without Kamidogu), Shujinko, etc. Although this is definitely subject to change knowing MK's scaling. Perhaps they can scale to Raiden's lightning since they tank the full energy of Raiden's lightning powers (especially the Deadly Alliance)
As for the low tiers, I think they would scale to Wall level feats. Drahmin has a wall busting feat where he breaks the bigger rocks blocking the entrance of a Netherrealm structure (the feat comes from MKDA's Konquest Mode, which lacks visuals but has written lore instead), Kano and Jarek survived falling from great heights (they were severely injured by that but that's definitely something), etc. Their durability would scale to Cyrax's bombs, since Moloch and Drahmin were able to take damage from them, except they fled before Cyrax could spit out another bomb. I'm not keen on using TYM feats since the feats I mentioned kinda contradict with the highest ratings of TYM feats (breaking diamond blocks is 9-A but low tiers get hurt by lesser attacks) but maybe they can still use any TYM feat that's within wall level.
For those between the low and high tiers, Kintaro has this special move where he uses his breath to suck people towards him as shown here. IIRC there was a JoJo calc that was similar to this one but Kintaro's feat is weaker. It might work though. Sub-Zero also gained an exponential power boost from his ancestral armor and the Dragon Amulet, and with the amulet he was able to release a blast that froze multiple enemies at once. He resists the powers of this amulet, so that would scale to his durability. Same with Taven who was hardly inconvenienced with Sub-Zero blasting everyone in the room with no regards to his allies.
For the high tiers, they'd scale to Raiden's lightning and Taven's assortment of feats in his Konquest mode, which includes destroying a massive Shao Kahn statue and slamming the ground to create fiery shockwaves. I'm sure there is a lot of feats that I missed out seeing how we're talking about an old game where the lore is widely dispersed from the games.
Onaga
Onaga is a pretty special case here, so I made a section for himself. This will talk about his overall stats.
There's a lot of hype around Onaga being the most powerful character but that power only comes from his grand plan of trickery of deceit, stealing the Kamidogu through his agent Shujinko before using all of them to protect him as well as shape all of reality. His true strength doesn't actually lie in his physicals, but his smarts.
Physically, his power is actually very ambiguous. Apparently, people use the reasoning of "Shao poisoned Onaga since he was afraid of fighting him directly" to say that he's superior to him, but I'd argue Shao Kahn actually has better feats than Onaga himself.
- Shao Kahn absorbed the souls of every living inhabitant on Earthrealm at once, which would be at the billions range based on the population of people during the 90s.
- Before the events of any MK game, he absorbed the entire life force of Outworld itself to sustain his dying body (mentioned in MK Mythologies and by the writer himself) This also implies that Shao isn't actually immortal, since it's stated that time passes differently in Outworld, hence the slow aging of Outworld beings when they enter another realm with a different passage of time (just like the Flaxans in Invincible except they don't die outside their realm)
That aside, Onaga would have a different rating instead. He will now have two keys instead, one where he has no Kamidogu and one where he has the Kamidogu. His base key will scale to the high tiers since he was able to overwhelm Shao Kahn at the Pyramid, but he might be lower than Shujinko when he absorbed everyone's abilities. As for his Kamidogu key, he would likely be Low 2-C since the Kamidogu were the same tools that shattered the One Being into the many realms we know, and each Kamidogu is the essence of one realm. Individually they are weak since Shujinko with everyone's powers was able to break them one by one, but fusing them together creates an ultimate tool that would allow him mastery over reality itself. Said power rendered him invulnerable as well, so it could scale to his durability too.
Speed
Speed in the Midway games is pretty rare and weak, especially reaction speed. Only high tiers like Quan Chi get the privilege of reacting to Raiden's lightning attacks. Before anyone brings up the feat where Sonya dodges Kano's plasma rounds in the MK1 comic made to explain the lore of the arcade game, she makes it clear that Kano wasn't aiming for her but the explosive barrels behind her back. Maybe it could work if you can convince me that she actually dodged those. Plus Kano did jump out of the explosion that he caused afterwards, so you can appraise that if it's valid or not.
Note that this is all subject to change, since you can add your own input here. Discuss away.
[BIG UPDATE]
******* hell, my edit got eaten when I clicked on an ad. Anyways, this is meant to summarize what has happened over five pages of this thread.
New keys and tiers
The most important part of this revision. We concluded that most kombatants will have two keys: Base and Armageddon key. This is because of the story of Midway MK having this thing where the kombatants of the realms will inevitably grow in power to match what WoG (represented by former writer John Vogel) calls "superpowered warriors" like Shao Kahn, Shang Tsung, and Raiden to kombat them equally in the battle of Armageddon. What they call "superpowered warriors" are the high tiers of the verse. Blaze in MKD also calls them "superior kombatants" to support this.
Because of this, fighters who aren't these "superpowered warriors" will have two keys. Their Base key is their weakest key and most kombatants would have this, such as, say, the younger Sub-Zero without anything like his Medallion or his armor amping him. Their Armageddon key is their strongest where they have all amps available and this is their form during the events of MK Armageddon, although it seems that the amp has begun during the events of MKD when Blaze woke up to find that there are more "Ki Chao warriors" than what the realms can handle. Though not the best source, Google Translate says that "chao" in simplified Chinese means "exceed" or "surpass" so there might be some meaning behind "Ki Chao warriors" that could provide some useful answers.
Only the high tiers of the verse may not need keys like this since they're supposed to be the apex that the other kombatants have to catch up to.
New AP and other physical stats
Many thanks to @Jason Courne, @Armorchompy, and most of all @FantaRin_The_First for providing calcs for feats that range from Tier 9 to 7. And thanks to the CGMs who approved them. With these new calcs, we can now tier the Midway MK kombatants properly, saving them from the damnation of being Small Building level only. I'm sure they deserve more.
The strongest Tier 9 feat is 0.01 tons of TNT or 49,200,000 joules from the kombatants of the very first MK breaking a diamond block with a single chop. There was a higher feat where Scorpion could vaporize his opponent with his Toasty fatality which is 0.07 tons, but I was told that no one survives this feat in the story so it's not good for scaling. This Small Building level feat would scale to characters who aren't considered as superior kombatants in their Base key.
The superior kombatants like Shao and Raiden as well as the weaker fighters in their new Armageddon key are Town level from Blaze's feat of dispersing clouds when he rose from the earth on top of the Pyramid of Argus, which is 7.33 kilotons of TNT.
Same speed
As for speed, not much has changed. Low tiers are merely baseline Subsonic in combat speed and reaction from scaling to Stryker who grabbed Kabal in the middle of his Raging Flash move where he fast enough to appear as a blur during the battle of Armageddon. They eventually grow fast enough to match the high tiers in the apex of Armageddon where they scale to Quan Chi reacting to and blocking Raiden's lightning with a wall of skulls, which is Mach 1308 or Massively Hypersonic+. They'd still scale to the speed of lightning which is 5x faster because they can perceive lightning coming towards them in order to block it.
So what's left to do?
Just profile making of, like, 64+ kombatants. I have 15 WIP profiles with some p&a sections and statistics that are complete. I'm following a template that showcases everything a kombatant is capable of, so if you want to help, you can follow what I did here. You can start with how I made the younger Sub-Zero's profile named kuailiang, which is almost complete.
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