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Major Mortal Kombat Revision Part II

So I thought about why we have a possibly/likely 7-C rating and I think that might not be the case. It's based off of Shao oneshotting a lot of fighters in Armageddon, but the fighters we see him oneshot (Jax, Reiko, Johnny Cage, Darrius, etc.) come back to fight and aren't knocked unconscious for a long time. I think it's just the sheer weight of his hammer being swung at them that causes them to fly far back, but it doesn't reduce them into mush. The point of the war is that all the fighters grow to the level of the likes of Shao, however he can at least be high on the AP chain because of how easily he defeats the others while sending them flying in one swing.

Btw Sub's profile is complete if you don't count the notable attacks section, I think I'll delay adding the notable attacks section because I have to check his moves from Deception and Armageddon but Youtube doesn't have vids of a full Sub movelist for those games so I might consider getting the games which is gonna take long when I'm doing this for all 64+ profiles. So what happens now with my complete Sub profile?
 
Firestorm808 said:
Does anyone have any objections to scaling Taven to Blaze?
Click to expand...
I don't see why Taven shouldn't scale to Blaze, he was chosen by his parents in a plan where they foresaw either of the two bros (Taven and Daegon) defeating Blaze and absorbing his energy with the armor given to them, they did everything in their power to give them everything they needed to beat Blaze (the training obelisks, the armor, the sword, etc.) so Taven and Daegon should really scale to Blaze. This elemental was made to be killed by either of the two. As Blaze's ending in Deception says:

"The arrogance of these warriors will be their downfall, for only a son of Edenia can unleash the true purpose of Blaze."
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
So I thought about why we have a possibly/likely 7-C rating and I think that might not be the case. It's based off of Shao oneshotting a lot of fighters in Armageddon, but the fighters we see him oneshot (Jax, Reiko, Johnny Cage, Darrius, etc.) come back to fight and aren't knocked unconscious for a long time. I think it's just the sheer weight of his hammer being swung at them that causes them to fly far back, but it doesn't reduce them into mush. The point of the war is that all the fighters grow to the level of the likes of Shao, however he can at least be high on the AP chain because of how easily he defeats the others while sending them flying in one swing.

Btw Sub's profile is complete if you don't count the notable attacks section, I think I'll delay adding the notable attacks section because I have to check his moves from Deception and Armageddon but Youtube doesn't have vids of a full Sub movelist for those games so I might consider getting the games which is gonna take long when I'm doing this for all 64+ profiles. So what happens now with my complete Sub profile?
Click to expand...
Thoughts on giving a full Town level rating and not a Likely or Possibly rating?
 
Hey question: Should we include the MK 1 & 2 prequel comics that John Tobias made for the Midway era?
 
Bump. I would really like to unleash the first Midway MK profile and perhaps rename the current Sub-Zero profile from just "Sub-Zero" to "Younger Sub-Zero (NRS)" or something else, wish I had that power though
 
Yeah they should be fine to use

couple decent feats there and Kano gets Plasma Manipulation thanks to his rifle in the first comic. Goro also gets good scaling
 
Gonna ask again: anyone fine with me creating the new Midway Sub-Zero page? There might be some new problems arising with its creation tho
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
So I thought about why we have a possibly/likely 7-C rating and I think that might not be the case. It's based off of Shao oneshotting a lot of fighters in Armageddon, but the fighters we see him oneshot (Jax, Reiko, Johnny Cage, Darrius, etc.) come back to fight and aren't knocked unconscious for a long time. I think it's just the sheer weight of his hammer being swung at them that causes them to fly far back, but it doesn't reduce them into mush. The point of the war is that all the fighters grow to the level of the likes of Shao, however he can at least be high on the AP chain because of how easily he defeats the others while sending them flying in one swing.
Click to expand...
Thoughts on this too? To summarise, I would like to change the Possibly/Likely Town level rating to just Town level without possibly/likely since they should all scale to each other because the power amp gives them the power level to match warriors like Shao and Raiden, instead of getting possibly/likely because Shao oneshots lots of fighters.

Would appreciate sufficient approval or disagreement on this because this will affect every one
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Thoughts on this too? To summarise, I would like to change the Possibly/Likely Town level rating to just Town level without possibly/likely since they should all scale to each other because the power amp gives them the power level to match warriors like Shao and Raiden, instead of getting possibly/likely because Shao oneshots lots of fighters.

Would appreciate sufficient approval or disagreement on this because this will affect every one
Click to expand...
I think it's fine to make solid TBH
 
So I updated the OP now with new changes, wasn't there something about the verse page that we had to do? Do we need explanation pages? Mod approval? Or do I just proceed with the younger Sub-Zero profile I've finished?
 
I'm reading through you Sub's sandbox rn, it's pretty good for the most part, but it needs some polishing.

  • While not necessarily required, it would be nice if you could link scans to bios and such, even though references in themselves are technically enough
  • I would add a link on his Flight. The statement refers to thing such as this, right?
  • He should have acrobatics for obvious reasons
  • I'd add scans and/or references to his stamina feat, his victory over Sektor (AP), his fight with Taven (AP), him dodging Scorpion's spear (speed) and fighting him (Dura), his business card and scepter (equipment),
  • Tens of meters range should be justified, otherwise the standards for a fighting game screen is several meters unless calced. MK has many cinematic, so there might be specific showings.
  • Some of his NA&T still needs at least descriptions, it's better to not put names and bullet lists until the text is added, which can be done in a second time, if you want to post it now. Kori power needs one as well.
  • His LS needs a link to the calc and a second key
  • There isn't anything outright saying everyone becomes as strong as Raiden and Shao, only the statement of them growing stronger. Even though they might still be all in the same tier, there might still be differences, if the power was simply added to their normal capabilities, meaning that some might still be above others.
  • I'd rephrase this sentence, which doesn't look good since Argus anticipated a plan that would use the kombatants' growing powers or something
  • I'm not quite sure of how and what, but I've got the feeling there could be something more to draw from the games. People he's fought, things he's done, stuff that could add more to his experience and make the file more complete.
  • I don't see the need in mentioning Superman, even though he's canonically in the timeline-multiverse.
  • Iirc didn't we decide to include even animalities and such, with the clause of binding them behind a "possibly" or a "others/something else abilities" or such? To indicate they might not be accurate reflections of the lore, while still listing them for the fun of it?
 
SamanPatou said:
I'm reading through you Sub's sandbox rn, it's pretty good for the most part, but it needs some polishing.

  • While not necessarily required, it would be nice if you could link scans to bios and such, even though references in themselves are technically enough
  • I would add a link on his Flight. The statement refers to thing such as this, right?
  • He should have acrobatics for obvious reasons
  • I'd add scans and/or references to his stamina feat, his victory over Sektor (AP), his fight with Taven (AP), him dodging Scorpion's spear (speed) and fighting him (Dura), his business card and scepter (equipment),
  • Tens of meters range should be justified, otherwise the standards for a fighting game screen is several meters unless calced. MK has many cinematic, so there might be specific showings.
  • Some of his NA&T still needs at least descriptions, it's better to not put names and bullet lists until the text is added, which can be done in a second time, if you want to post it now. Kori power needs one as well.
  • His LS needs a link to the calc and a second key
  • There isn't anything outright saying everyone becomes as strong as Raiden and Shao, only the statement of them growing stronger. Even though they might still be all in the same tier, there might still be differences, if the power was simply added to their normal capabilities, meaning that some might still be above others.
  • I'd rephrase this sentence, which doesn't look good since Argus anticipated a plan that would use the kombatants' growing powers or something
  • I'm not quite sure of how and what, but I've got the feeling there could be something more to draw from the games. People he's fought, things he's done, stuff that could add more to his experience and make the file more complete.
  • I don't see the need in mentioning Superman, even though he's canonically in the timeline-multiverse.
  • Iirc didn't we decide to include even animalities and such, with the clause of binding them behind a "possibly" or a "others/something else abilities" or such? To indicate they might not be accurate reflections of the lore, while still listing them for the fun of it?
Click to expand...
I'll check these tomorrow, most of these are because I overlooked some stuff that I forgot to fix
 
Saman's conclusions here are probably fine.
 
SamanPatou said:
I'm reading through you Sub's sandbox rn, it's pretty good for the most part, but it needs some polishing.

  1. While not necessarily required, it would be nice if you could link scans to bios and such, even though references in themselves are technically enough
  2. I would add a link on his Flight. The statement refers to thing such as this, right?
  3. He should have acrobatics for obvious reasons
  4. I'd add scans and/or references to his stamina feat, his victory over Sektor (AP), his fight with Taven (AP), him dodging Scorpion's spear (speed) and fighting him (Dura), his business card and scepter (equipment),
  5. Tens of meters range should be justified, otherwise the standards for a fighting game screen is several meters unless calced. MK has many cinematic, so there might be specific showings.
  6. Some of his NA&T still needs at least descriptions, it's better to not put names and bullet lists until the text is added, which can be done in a second time, if you want to post it now. Kori power needs one as well.
  7. His LS needs a link to the calc and a second key
  8. There isn't anything outright saying everyone becomes as strong as Raiden and Shao, only the statement of them growing stronger. Even though they might still be all in the same tier, there might still be differences, if the power was simply added to their normal capabilities, meaning that some might still be above others.
  9. I'd rephrase this sentence, which doesn't look good since Argus anticipated a plan that would use the kombatants' growing powers or something
  10. I'm not quite sure of how and what, but I've got the feeling there could be something more to draw from the games. People he's fought, things he's done, stuff that could add more to his experience and make the file more complete.
  11. I don't see the need in mentioning Superman, even though he's canonically in the timeline-multiverse.
  12. Iirc didn't we decide to include even animalities and such, with the clause of binding them behind a "possibly" or a "others/something else abilities" or such? To indicate they might not be accurate reflections of the lore, while still listing them for the fun of it?
Click to expand...
I addressed points 1, 2 ,3, 4 (scans for scepter aren't needed, i'll include it as a pic and gifs of its attacks in his na&t and equipment), 5, 7, 11, and 12

For point 6, I'll do it next time. For point 8, I'm frankly not sure what you mean. They do become as strong as Raiden and Shao, because they are warriors with the ability to tap into the forces that bind the realms and Blaze sees that there are more warriors like them because they are getting stronger

Still trying to find where I heard the Argus anticipated a plan thing for point 9, I'll fix it when I find it. I'll just keep finding stuff for point 10

Btw, should certain characters be on the level of town level during Deception, even before the battle of Armageddon? Blaze's bios in Deception imply that the warriors becoming stronger started during the events of Deception, which happened at the same time as other characters getting boosts, like Sub-Zero with the medallion + armor and Scorpion becoming the Elder Gods' Champion
 
Thanks for the adjustments.
If I may add more, Sub dodging Scorpion's spear also works for Enhanced Senses (you can also add the scan if you like).
It'd be better if you could link the Common Feats page for the Spine Rip, only to keep things more within out standard format, even if the reference video is the same. Just enter [[References for Common Feats#Ripping off spines| ]].

Point 8 is now fine, I believe the interview video wasn't in the profile before, right? But now it's all ok.
If you want, you can put the references into a scrollbox, so they take less space. This is the code {{scroll box|content={{reflist|2}}}}, the 2 or whatever other number (or none at all) is meant to put columns.

About Deception, I'm not totally sure because they might still be in the process of reaching their max power. If you like, you can just move Deception from his base to his second key, to make sure the first one is fully 9-A without problems.
 
So here's a couple cool things that I could remember off the top of my head:
Rain gets a big feat in his and Havik's arcade endings where he manages to flood an entire city and makes the water even reach near the top of mountains but it's definitely a high end since he says that did it by summoning more magic than he thought possible so it's probably not something he can just casually do.

Liu Kang says that he was more powerful than all the Elder Gods combined when he was keeper of time. He gave up the powers long before the events of the game but he gets them back in the last chapter (before proceeding to become jobber supreme).

Geras becomes a sort of timeline guardian in his ending, keeping watch over all the different timelines we see in the game. In Liu Kang's ending we learn that becoming a Titan again took away his immortality due to him giving up the power once before so even though he'll still live for eons, he decides that Geras will be his successor and will get his power once he dies.

I don't know if this was always a thing but there's a feat where Kenshi stabs Ermac with Sento and proceeds to siphon the souls in his body.

Liu Kang can apparently take away memories and abilities from people based on Kung Lao's ending.

Oh, and the big one is that the fight for Kronika's hourglass was so big that it caused the singular timeline to split into multiple timelines. We see 6 different timelines in the game but it's possible there's even more. At bare minimum we can assume that there's one for each MK character since the last one we see is Havik who wasn't even in MK11 so it's not just limited to MK11 characters.

Also, as always, character scaling is a ******* mess in MK as everyone beats everyone except for a small handful of characters who get their asses kicked by everyone else.
There's definitely more stuff but that's all I could remember at the moment.
 
Last edited:
AcidSilver said:
So here's a couple cool things that I could remember off the top of my head:
Rain gets a big feat in his and Havik's arcade endings where he manages to flood an entire city and makes the water even reach near the top of mountains but it's definitely a high end since he says that did it by summoning more magic than he thought possible so it's probably not something he can just casually do.

Liu Kang says that he was more powerful than all the Elder Gods combined when he was keeper of time. He gave up the powers long before the events of the game but he gets them back in the last chapter (before proceeding to become jobber supreme).

Geras becomes a sort of timeline guardian in his ending, keeping watch over all the different timelines we see in the game. In Liu Kang's ending we learn that becoming a Titan again took away his immortality due to him giving up the power once before so even though he'll still live for eons, he decides that Geras will be his successor and will get his power once he dies.

I don't know if this was always a thing but there's a feat where Kenshi stabs Ermac with Sento and proceeds to siphon the souls in his body.

Liu Kang can apparently take away memories and abilities from people based on Kung Lao's ending.

Oh, and the big one is that the fight for Kronika's hourglass was so big that it caused the singular timeline to split into multiple timelines. We see 6 different timelines in the game but it's possible there's even more. At bare minimum we can assume that there's one for each MK character since the last one we see is Havik who wasn't even in MK11 so it's not just limited to MK11 characters.

Also, as always, character scaling is a ***** mess in MK as everyone beats everyone except for a small handful of characters who get their asses kicked by everyone else.
There's definitely more stuff but that's all I could remember at the moment.
Click to expand...
I put all of these in my draft already

Wrong thread for this btw
 
(No spoilers) Just went through the story of the new game, and it was pretty good. Really ties things together.

The final chapter was insane.

Still no Taven though...
 
We should keep this open for tweaks and adjustments to the Midway era.

However, dealing with new files and scaling has probably higher priority, though a new thread should be made, to not clog this up and leave it for the classics.
 
I think I'm caught up, coming from this thread

I went through every accepted calc I could find and added them to the verse page, and I think my discoveries could change a lot of the stuff suggested here. I also have some Tier 2 thoughts

  • Low Tiers like Drahmin and the average fodder enemy can probably scale to wall level feats, I agree there. However, we do have a 9-A fodder fea in the form of the Ice Beast, which Sonya OHKOs. They're likely comparable.
  • For most characters, such as Sonya, Kitana, or Reptile, I think they can scale to Taven's High 8-C feat. IIRC, Taven was weakened during Konquest mode, and he isn't too stellar of a Kombatant despite being a demi-god. He's comparable to Rain and Rain is comparable to a majority of the cast. There are two other Building level feats to support this as consistent. Not to mention how Taven can fight people like Sonya and Kira.
  • While I am no calc expert, I think the diamond Test Your Might feat needs to be redone. It's from 2016, seemingly wasn't approved, and just on a glance it looks a bit off.
  • Armageddon keys I agree with, however I don't agree with scaling them to Blaze's feat for reasons I will soon go over. Instead, I suggest we scale them to Onaga's Low 7-C feat of surviving Raiden's sacrificial blast. Everyone can fight Onaga, so they should be comparable in this key.
  • However, I don't think we should flat scale them to Blaze's feat because... Blaze is 2-C. In numerous endings, his power (when used by other fighters) can create realms (Low 2-C), creates constellations (4-A), destroyed every realm except earthrealm (2-C), tore every realm apart (2-C), merges the realms (2-C), and "shattered reality until there was nothing" (At least 2-C).
  • Given MK11 and MK1's revelation of multiple timelines, and the fact this power is supported by WoG, I think it'd be a bit silly to brush these endings aside.
  • Given they can all face Blaze, and their power was threatening to tear the Realms apart, I think a "possibly 2-C" is in order
  • I think they can also get a key for when they have Blaze's power
So, to summarize
  • Fodder (Drahmin, Meat, etc.) = Wall level, possibly Small Building level
  • Average Kombatant (Sonya, Goro, Rain) = Large Building level
  • Theoretically Big Boys (Raiden, Fujin, Shao Khan) = At least Large Building level
  • Big Boys (Onaga... that's it, really) = Small Town level+
  • Armageddon Keys = Small Town level+, possibly Low Multiverse level
  • Blaze and Blaze-Amped Kombatants= Low Multiverse level
Here's a rough proof of concept, using my boy Chameleon as an example
 
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I don't agree with using the endings to scale Blaze simply because the kombatants become able to perform those feats only after absorbing his power. It doesn't make sense for them to be already that strong.
Blaze is also meant to be defeat and have his power passed over, so it's likely he can't or doesn't use the power which then makes the super strong.

Also, wasn't Onaga made invulnerable by the kamidogu? In that case, him surviving Raiden's suicide wouldn't be an innate durability feat.
 
SamanPatou said:
I don't agree with using the endings to scale Blaze simply because the kombatants become able to perform those feats only after absorbing his power.
Click to expand...
We already use the endings for Blaze's profile (as well as Taven and Dagon), however it lists the 2-C feat as Low 6-B. The endings can happen, but whether or not they happened in their own timeline is debatable.

Regardless, it should at least be it's own key. The point of the arcade endings is that they can happen even if they don't happen in the main timeline

Blaze has been called the strongest character in the series by WoG as of Armageddon (putting him at a level comparable to One Being and other characters who can merge realms), serves as the final challenge for a bunch of characters who are breaking reality by pure power, gifts enough power to create/destroy realms, and destroys all of existence in his own bad ending. 2-C Blaze is remarkably consistent
SamanPatou said:
It doesn't make sense for them to be already that strong.
Click to expand...
The plot of Armageddon really starts to makes sense if they are that strong, thus the need for Armageddon in the first place. Not to mention how they were already collapsing the Realms. They have to be comparable to Blaze to kill Blaze, and Shao Khan managed this in the main timeline, with an ending existing for every fighter who was present as well
SamanPatou said:
Blaze is also meant to be defeat and have his power passed over, so it's likely he can't or doesn't use the power which then makes the super strong.
Click to expand...
He uses his own power to destroy all of reality in his own ending, the profile acknowledges this
 
ShockingPsychic said:
I went through every accepted calc I could find and added them to the verse page, and I think my discoveries could change a lot of the stuff suggested here. I also have some Tier 2 thoughts
Click to expand...
In my view the Tier 2 stuff should be handled in its own thread. This one is already 6 pages long with hundreds of comments. Such a verse wide upgrade should be it's own thing.

For the non-Tier 2 the scaling is fine imo.
 
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