• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Major Mario CRT: Mama mia, another one!?

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's not "Mama mia", it's "Mamma mia".

Or if you want to be really Italian, "Porca puttana" works too. Hoping Fandom doesn't have Italian speaking staff
 
No doesnt need to be closed but we need to input on what @datoneweeb discussed here and everything else in our discussion thread
 
Alright, but it's just we need DRB's input to go through, but he wants to focus on one at a time. So I'd rather not stress him so much.
 
There is a lot to cover here, and I don't have an awful lot of time on my hands, but from what I see, not too much seems to be an issue here. With that said, there are a few things I want to bring up.

I've since written a better version of the Magical Paintbrush's 4-A rating, so would like to post that here.

In Super Mario Sunshine, Bowser Junior steals one of Professor E. Gadd's inventions, the Magic Paintbrush. He uses this paintbrush to pollute Isle Delfino in an attempt to frame Mario by entering a disguised form known as Shadow Mario. However, it is implied throughout the game that he also used the paintbrush to create enemies to hinder Mario, such as how a Pianta noted Petey Piranha can't be natural and how Gooper Blooper disappears upon making contact with the sea, much like how the paintbrush's graffiti dissolves when sprayed water. Super Mario Encyclopedia outright claims Bowser Junior created the enemies as well. Therefore, we can see that Bowser Junior is using his paintbrush to hinder Mario's progress, and thus is likely to have created all the struggles Mario faced throughout the game. This would include the Secrets, realms encountered in numerous episodes. In the episode "The Shell's Secret", "a pathway to another world" was said to have opened since the last episode, showing that Secrets are made within a short period of time (and thus likely in one go). Due to the fact goop can be seen coming out from the entrance to a Secret in Bianco Hills, and Shadow Mario always ambushes Mario whenever he enters a Secret, it is very likely that there is a connection between the Secrets and the Magic Paintbrush.
In terms of size, the Secrets are shown to hold a myriad of stars and even a full-on Moon and nebulae, and so these realms are large enough to contain multiple solar systems. Creation feats are seen as just as valid as destructive feats in the tiering system, and thus the Magic Paintbrush should be deemed to be at Multi-Solar System level. Mario has been shown to take hits from the Magic Paintbrush itself. His durability in this game can be equalised to his attack potency too, such as how Gooper Blooper's tentacles can harm him and yet he can overpower them and rip them off, and how Petey Piranha, who can harm Mario, doesn't hurt himself when swinging his head or spinning his arms, but Mario can attack with enough force to do damage to him. Therefore, we can safely say that Mario is Multi-Solar System level. This feat applies to Mario's base as there is no proof that Shine Sprites, the collectable of the game, are able to boost the user. They are distinctly different to Power Stars and serve a completely different purpose, and so there is no reason for this feat to not apply to base Mario.

(Also, a sunset appears in one of the Secrets, I forgot to mention that, so we can know for sure they're big enough to fit stars in them)

And how a few queries:

For the dimensions created by King Boo, the links seem to just show some areas and not actually any proof that King Boo created them. What exactly is the basis of the claim?

The World of Nothing explicitly has space (i.e. spatial dimensions have persisted), as we can see roofs and gates of the Sammer Kingdom's former glory, and can even bump into/interact with them, as well as a lesser form of the Pure Heart (whilst, yes, Pure Hearts can exist in Dimenion D, which arguably doesn't exist due to not falling under The Void's radar, but this was a lesser form, so that trait might not carry over). I also believe some time based items work here (I don't see why they wouldn't, and they could probably be used in the battle against Mr L). Not to mention numerous scenes occur here, such as a battle with Mr L, Mr L's demise at the hands of Dimetio, etc, so it feels like there should be time.... not to mention if space still exists, why wouldn't time? So, I don't think this claim has much merit to it, personally. We see the Void is growing throughout the game, and it doesn't affect All World as it should until it reaches its full potential (we see multiple worlds being affected at once when Super Dimentio is born), so this was more so a lesser version of The Void that destroyed the Sammer Kingdom, hence why it wasn't destroying space-time like it should have. So... I don't quite agree with that point.

Everything else seems more or less fair, but I might go into more deph on each point when I get a chance. Nice CRT over all.
 
The basis of the claim was King Boo pulls you into the Mario painting HE crafted himself. We see in LM3 he can just magick a painting up as well so it's not like we don't know how he made it.

Then Dark Moon was just a realm he could manipulate or something. Maybe someone who knows betters can provide better context since that evades my memory.
 
@LuckyEmile We know these are created by King Boo due him creating his own realm with a very similar background. It was also stated in the first Luigi's Mansion game that he created the Mansion out of nothing.

I've already gone through this argument before in the other thread, not sure why you're brining this up again. There being small chunks of Sammer Kingdom is there for visual effects and that's it. Why would those existing contradict there being space? The Stop Watch being used is an obvious game mechanic, I feel like I shouldn't even explain why it is. Why would this imply there is time? That makes no sense. The character's interacting does not mean there is time. By this logic, if anyone moves in a timeless void, then it isn't actually timeless. Space wouldn't even likely exist, again, all we see is a white background and nothing else. The Void not being in full size also doesn't mean it can't destroy space-time. Each world in Super Paper Mario is it's own seperate universe, Sammer Kingdom being one of them. And The Void consumed all of it. So we know it's at least Low 2-C due to Sammer Kingdom being a universe. So yes, it can still destroy time.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
I've already gone through this argument before in the other thread, not sure why you're brining this up again. There being small chunks of Sammer Kingdom is there for visual effects and that's it.
Click to expand...
Why would a Void intent of destory everything care for visual effects?

Why would those existing contradict there being space?
It doesn't, it's proof for there being space, and thus time.

The Stop Watch being used is an obvious game mechanic, I feel like I shouldn't even explain why it is. Why would this imply there is time? That makes no sense.
Ah yes, manipulating time that doesn't exist is totally game mechanics. You need time to manipulate in the first place if you want to use time manipulation...

The character's interacting does not mean there is time. By this logic, if anyone moves in a timeless void, then it isn't actually timeless.
That's a fair point, I ... just find it weird more than anything.

Space wouldn't even likely exist, again, all we see is a white background and nothing else.
But that's outright disproven by the game itself, where we see more than just a white background, we have fences and roofs and such, which will even block your path, proving they very well exist and can be interacted with, not just aesthetics... something that required spatial dimensions.

The Void not being in full size also doesn't mean it can't destroy space-time.
Not by default, of course... but... we outright see this is the case, hence why I bring it up and explain how this can be the case despite statements it will destory space-time/all dimensions, etc.

Each world in Super Paper Mario is it's own seperate universe, Sammer Kingdom being one of them. [I'd bring up people like Bestovius referring to All Worlds as a universe, but that would be silly~] And The Void consumed all of it.
It only consumed all of it towards the end of the game... beforehand, in its larval state, it wasn't actually doing that and simply just affecting the worlds closest to it...

So we know it's at least Low 2-C due to Sammer Kingdom being a universe. So yes, it can still destroy time.
You... didn't really give any compelling evidence to prove this... Trying to write stuff off as game mechanics (appeal to it not making sense in-universe) or aesthetic choices (appeal to us not considering in-universe) seem more like workarounds, and those are the only real things that counter my point... The fact that space very well still existed alone proves the Void wasn't delivering what was promised at this point in time, so we can't apply statements about its full potential to it in this larval state...
 
Because The Void only leaving VERY small chunks of Sammer Kingdom left is just nit picking when we know in context that everything else is completely gone. You haven't explained why those small bits = space.

It's a game mechanic because of the fact that it works in a place that consumes time and cosumed a timeline. Why wouldn't it be considered a game mechanic?

I've already explained this above.

I don't know why this proves there is space. The entire Sammer Kingdom was gone, I don't care if there tiny peices left. That's like saying if you destroy a planet but there are small rocks left, then you aren't planet level.

The Void overall reached size to Low 2-C. It's obviously going to still destroy other universes before it reaches 2-B size. Not the point, the fact that it can still destroy universes would already support the fact that the inside is timeless alongside with said statement.

A lot of what you said in the final part would need me to repeat myself so read above. Even if you dismiss everything I just said, Super Dimentio would've done the same feat with The Void's size so we still have his feat to scale that already takes care of every other of your arguments.
 
Something else that's minor (Well I say minor but it would make several 6-B to Low 5-B characters 4-A) is that we should also stop treating the Wario and Donkey Kong series as their own seperate universes where they for no logical reason have different keys, their current composite High 4-C keys should just be their standard power with the Low 5-B and 6-B keys and ratings getting yeeted, with the other characters from said series also getting bumped up in strength. Oh yeah I also mostly agree with all this, iffy about the infinite speed thing and Culex tho.
 
I agree with Dust. They're not separate universes any more than the Yoshi series is a separate universe. They have their own series but it's not like Zelda where it's a Miyamoto property that has nothing to do with Mario. Wario and DK are fully Mario characters, and them having different emblems in Smash doesn't change that.
 
I agree that Wario and Donkey Kong should just scaled from Mario in general since they're 100% established to be the same series.
 
DK and Wario absolutely scale. Odyssey is already a clear example of DK and Wario coexisting with Mario via outfits and the entirety of New Donk.

Mario has appeared in Warioware and Wario fought Mario and Toad in Mario Land and Wario's Woods.

This is without mentioning them all being Star Children and existing together in Yoshi's Island
 
And now we have 3 Low 2-C villains Mario and Friends (or Wario Alone) have beatin, and there are even more feats that prove Low 2-C Mario and Friends (Mario tanking the Void when it destroyed a Universe,Bowser destroying dreams in Dream Depot one by one, Mousser Stuff....)

Anyway, I agree with everything.
 
So far this seems to be getting good support. I guess we just need some more mod input.
 
I don't see an issue for infinite speed, only one person argued against it, however, Super Dimentio's feat already covers any issues with the first feat as his involves him moving in the complete Void.
 
After Dino finishes up his previous thread, and then comes to this one once the other is taken care of.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Accelerated_Evolution
  • Locked
Super Mario - Travel Speed VS Combat Speed
Replies
12
Views
2K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Flashlight237
About Layered Immortality in Mario
Replies
4
Views
293
AStrangeverse
AStrangeverse
MicDaniel
Mario, Accelerated Development/Preparation and Zone Speed Statistics amplification.
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
AStrangeverse
AStrangeverse
CloverDragon03
Super Mario Revision: What to Do About Dreams?
Replies
30
Views
3K
Mephistus
Mephistus
Dust_Collector
Dreamy Bowser Existence Erasure Justification
Replies
14
Views
1K
Dust_Collector
Dust_Collector
Back
Top