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I understand. If we can't get more staff to give their input, we will have to figure out some sort of conclusion with the discussion that has already happened. Thank you for your help on this thread.
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Major EarthBound Revisions Part I: Cosmology and Stat Revisions
- Thread starter VileShadows
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@ArbitraryNumbers @GreyFang82 @DarkDragonMedeus @CrimsonStarFallen @Truth_Bullets @DatOneWeeb @Migue79
Your input would also be appreciated here.
Your input would also be appreciated here.
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No problem.
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Both DDM & DatOneWeeb agreed with everything earlier.
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We are currently contacting DDM so he can specify what he agreed with.
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I'm not 100% sold on 2-A, but the player thing is probably warranted of a Low 1-C rating.
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Would you say in your personal opinion that it would be Full on, Likely, or possibly Low 1-C?
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The player thing means that if it is just an avatar than any Tier 2 rating would lead to a Tier 1 rating. So it wouldn't change if the universe was Low 2-C or 2-A.
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I'm confused on what you mean, could you elaborate?
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- #132
I have already established in the CRT that the real world's rating would be independent of the rating we accept for the game world. The main question at hand is whether we consider Low 1-C to be a flat rating, "likely", or "possibly".
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The way its described is being dimensionally superior to the game. It doesn't matter how many universes are strung along a 4-D space, the end rating would be 5-D.
Or as an another example, two infinite 3-D cubes are the same size. Even if one contains an infinite amount of 2-D objects and the other only contains a single one.
So the Low 1-C thing if accepted would just be a flat rating.
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So the thread is pretty big and i can't find anyone mentioning this, hut the 7-B also comes from that one fat robot causing a nuclear explosion when he dies.
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Ok thank you for your comment. (To Qawsedf234)
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- #136
7-B for the reactor robot makes a huge assumption. We can't say that they are analogous to actual nuclear bombs when they aren't even dedicated explosive weapons, they are foot soldiers who's primary purpose is to refuel other robots. Slapping on a tier 7 rating would be completely unfounded, which is why this idea was rejected.
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- #137
Qawsedf being based. Thank you for your input.
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I'm sure there was a blog or something where they also showed a scan where it states is a actual nuclear blast, but regardless it would be a outlier anyway now that the other feats are gone.
Edit: is on the choosen four durability, it claims that the guidebook calls it a nuke.
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- #139
The guidebook says "This nuke will nuke everything in sight if it is defeated". Just because they are called nukes does not mean that they are literally nuclear bombs, nor can we assign a specific tier to them because nuclear bombs can vary in destructiveness. Either way, yeah, it would be considered an outlier as it is inconsistent with the tier 8 feats present throughout the game.
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It should be noted also nukes can be tier 8 and they're so small they'd meet tier 8.
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I agree with everything
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Why don't you just angsize the distance the Robot would be (assume the distance from the POV is the distance from the cast, which makes sense honestly), and then just apply inverse square law and surface area.
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There is actually a calculation done for this on the Top Strongest Wiki by StrymULTRA. It only results in 9-A though, so it wouldn't make much of a difference.
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GreyFang82
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I'm sorry this took so long, I honestly need to check on this site more often.
Alright, looking through it all... THERE WAS AN EARTHBOUND MANGA!!!!
On the real though, everything looks good. I'm not 100% sold about the Low 1-C thing, but the 2-A fits and I'm fine with downgrading the cast I suppose. Since it sounds like the Nuke statement is also not being used along with the storm calc. I suppose I'll be out voted either way about the whole higher dimension stuff, but I would like to say I'm not against it, just not fully convinced.
TLDR;
Yeah, looks good.
Alright, looking through it all... THERE WAS AN EARTHBOUND MANGA!!!!
On the real though, everything looks good. I'm not 100% sold about the Low 1-C thing, but the 2-A fits and I'm fine with downgrading the cast I suppose. Since it sounds like the Nuke statement is also not being used along with the storm calc. I suppose I'll be out voted either way about the whole higher dimension stuff, but I would like to say I'm not against it, just not fully convinced.
TLDR;
Yeah, looks good.
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- #145
Thank you very much for your input!
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GreyFang being based as per usual It truly has been a long time since we've last interacted with each other
Thank you for your viewpoints, much appreciated!
Thank you for your viewpoints, much appreciated!
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Alright, I was talking to the group on voice, and pretty much agree with almost everything here. The Manga appears to be canon given that Itoi at least approved it as an extended part of the main lore in one of his interviews; which Og accepted it as 2-A. It mentions the "Infinite universes exist parallel to each other infinitely" Although it does mention universes always being born, the second part heavily implies Infinity already exist. It's basically an oxymoron to say Infinity + 1 is still infinity. So the in game multiverse being 2-A sized is pretty solid. And the Player being portrayed as some upper-dimensional god via statements is basically implying the real world is a plane of higher infinity above the multiverse. So I'm un full agreement of The Player, Truth of the Universe, Dark Dragon being Low 1-C. Ness and Giygas having conceptual stuff and the former having a fragment and being able to Reach the Truth of the Universe makes his true self being Low 1-C and Giygas scaling accordingly makes sense to me as well.
That gets cosmology stuff out of the way, but GiverofthePeace basically said upscaling from characters who already have multiple Speed of Light feats makes FTL pretty consistent. And I also agree with the various movement speed ratings, lifting strength, ect. The downgrades for the Nuke bots, Thunder and Storm to 8-B also is fine. And same with 9-A+ Early game from the Tree cast. The only non Cosmic tier I do not quite agree with is Gigue being 7-A. Assuming they're "Immune to every firearm known to man" is usually something we try to avoid for scaling purposes. For verses like DCAU, or The Boys, there have been statements like that to try to get 7-A upgrades here and there, but were rejected. And hypothetical statements aside, it should be noted that Inverse Square Law is often important for tanking Tsar Bombas and the like. But he has his 7-C feat and is invincible against the Mother 1 cast, so 7-C is solid to me.
I'm also in agreement with the keys revision for plenty of the characters like Porky. Absolute Safe Capsule could be included in his Mother 3 key with notes in the weakness section. And I'm also in agreement with Magicants being universes and it's likely all humans can create them, but that Low 2-C stuff wouldn't quite be applicable for combat outside them. But various range upgrades here and there based on said details are also good.
So I did give much of my approvals.
That gets cosmology stuff out of the way, but GiverofthePeace basically said upscaling from characters who already have multiple Speed of Light feats makes FTL pretty consistent. And I also agree with the various movement speed ratings, lifting strength, ect. The downgrades for the Nuke bots, Thunder and Storm to 8-B also is fine. And same with 9-A+ Early game from the Tree cast. The only non Cosmic tier I do not quite agree with is Gigue being 7-A. Assuming they're "Immune to every firearm known to man" is usually something we try to avoid for scaling purposes. For verses like DCAU, or The Boys, there have been statements like that to try to get 7-A upgrades here and there, but were rejected. And hypothetical statements aside, it should be noted that Inverse Square Law is often important for tanking Tsar Bombas and the like. But he has his 7-C feat and is invincible against the Mother 1 cast, so 7-C is solid to me.
I'm also in agreement with the keys revision for plenty of the characters like Porky. Absolute Safe Capsule could be included in his Mother 3 key with notes in the weakness section. And I'm also in agreement with Magicants being universes and it's likely all humans can create them, but that Low 2-C stuff wouldn't quite be applicable for combat outside them. But various range upgrades here and there based on said details are also good.
So I did give much of my approvals.
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That actually isn't what I was suggesting.
Calculate a value for what "nuking everything in sight" would be, idk maybe use average human visions values. That is, assuming you actually want to take that statement at face value, if you aren't, don't know why it was brought up then.
Then angsize the distance from the enemy to the POV, implement surface area and inverse square law.
It'd be higher then 9-A, but less then tier 7, so it should work out.
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Yeah, that's the thing, I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to take that statement at face value when the human eye can see significantly farther than what would be reasonable for the radius of such an explosion.
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I did it as a low end as at very least is a semi sphere with the tree height as radius.
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Wait, it was about the robot. Well, I've used the battle area because you could see at very least that much, and I don't want to inflate the result since the game is completely ****** up in proportions so I had the use the low end even there.
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As I said, I'm fine with multiverse being 2-A based on that manga scan as long as it is canon, This seemed to be a contested point from what I read on the thread earlier. But if it's not canon, there really isn't any evidence for a multiverse, but the Low 1-C thing is unrelated to whether the game world's cosmology is Low 2-C, or 2-C, or 2-A or whatever.
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My opinion is the same as everyone else pretty much. Aside from Low 1-C being shaky, the rest seems solid.
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It was agreed between them that a "2-A, likely Low 1-C" should go due of The Player's position towards the multiverse.
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- #158
Alright, so it seems this thread is coming to a close. I can apply the changes when I wake up in the morning.
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Correct this here, DDM agreed with flat out Low 1-C.
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