Major CRT for the SMB franchise

[Maverick_Zero_X]

That should preferably be substantiated on the GP's profile.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Again, Ness has the exact same thing for the same reason.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Yes, Mario loves Peach. But they are not an actual couple. Sure he saves her partially because he loves her, but that doesn't mean "happy" ending refers to that.

Ness has fate manipulation for the same reason, he doesn't actually have it, but it's on his profile because he's always protected.

Her getting mad at Mario once in their entire life of knowing each other suddenly makes them not an actual couple?




Here's some decisive evidence then in case you somehow needed it.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

That should preferably be substantiated on the GP's profile.

i would prefer the Gentle Pull profile not even be here since theres no real information on it. I would say the exact same about trying to include it on Mario character profiles based only on theories about its nature

 

[DatOneWeeb]

That wasn't her getting mad at Mario, that was literally her rejecting him.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

That wasn't her getting mad at Mario, that was literally her rejecting him.

She rejected a forced AF proposal from both him and Bowser for being too in her face. That doesnt mean in the slightest that she and Mario arent in a clearly obviously romantic relationship. I even gave you cold hard evidence, but in case you want more, here you go:

 

[DatOneWeeb]

She could've just said no to Bowser only but said no to both. All the artwork is irrelevant when Odyssey is the most recent depiction of their relationship. Why are we even assuming happy ending is related to love? The ending for Galaxy didn't even have to do anything with Mario and Peach's relationship. We definitely shouldn't say it's about love.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

She could've just said no to Bowser only but said no to both. All the artwork is irrelevant when Odyssey is the most recent depiction of their relationship. Why are we even assuming happy ending is related to love? The ending for Galaxy didn't even have to do anything with Mario and Peach's relationship. We definitely shouldn't say it's about love.

She said no to both because they were both shoving flowers in her face.

The Line stickers were made post Odyssey actually, so even that gif of Mario and Peach blatantly being a couple is the latest thing about their relationship.

The ending for Galaxy 2 is where the "Gentle Pull" becomes a thing, and Rosalina mentions it in relation to Mario reuniting with Peach, so thats definitely a reason to consider love as a possibility. Im not saying thats 100 percent what it is though.

My point this whole time has just been that the gentle pull is too vague to consider an ability or identity worthy of a profile.

 

[Antvasima]

So is somebody experienced willing to update The Gentle Pull profile?

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Its @DRB thread so he will mostly change it but we need to wait for his return or if someone can contact home that'll be nice. I also think @DDM is Experienced with gentle pull

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I don't mind implementing it, I just want to make sure there's enough support for the changes before doing so.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have unlocked Gentle Pull for Dino Ranger Black, so he can take care of the needed edits.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Taken care of.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Thank you, do I need to lock it back up? It's not quite Tier 2 anymore.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

If not, then I think there's no need to.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That's one step out of the way; and I think Shadoo's downgrade is agreed upon.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

That's taken care of as well.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Welp that's a good start

 

[Foxthefox1000]

It's only the Ancients, the Wario World stuff, and the Rosalina stuff left.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

What else we have left on this CTR

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Aside the Rosalina updates, there's just a few new profiles to make.

 

[Dust_Collector]

So all we gotta do is change Rosalinas stats to High 4-C to 3-C with the reasoning of being comparable to the base cast and Lumas and add a new Low 2-C key with the Grand Stars as well as putting them down as standard equipment, and I guess this is more minor but also remove the "far superior to Grand Star Bowser" reasoning for her speed since that's not really a thing anymore since her downgrade, she's obviously still scale to the same calc as currently but for being comparable to the main cast. The new profiles don't have to be made anytime soon so for them we just need to keep in mind the correct stats when they are eventually made.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

I agree Omnipresent and Multiversal range is good to keep for Gentle Pull, but I'm against page deletion unless we want to add passive Fate Manipulation for various Mario characters.

Also, Chain Chomps vary in size and possibly tier. Perhaps the Giant Chain Chomps are stronger than Whomps, but they still don't scale from Mario regardless.

Is this still a thing?

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Also, the other big thing I want to add to this discussion is I wouldn't consider all "fodder" enemies in Mario to be far below him in stats. If we assumed they were all completely useless next to Mario, there wouldnt be any realistic danger for him in any of his adventures.

There's also plenty of instances of goombas and other Bowser army fodder canonically being strong enough to fend off Koopalings, for it to be called consistent.

Personally, I'd change up the Mario fodder profiles to mention that their stats largely vary based on appearance and plot.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

True, enemies such as Boo's can scale to Mario if they fuse together into a giant Boo as shown in The Thousand Year Door. Or the green Goombas who can take large amounts of damage when they boost their attack powers.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Atomic Boo is technically a Miniboss, but I don't think we should scale the Hyper Goombas or Gloombas either; they're still mooks that can be easily beaten. Also, besides game mechanics, there's far too much PIS. It's like Spider Man getting taken out by a couple of typical street thugs or Superman getting knocked out by a taser. The armies taking out the Koopalings also appears to be PIS. It's just another example of authors no caring about power levels and power scaling.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Or it's not PIS because they've never shown feats beyond being killed by, even at his lowest, a small city plumber with hypersonic speed. Bowser's Minions and Bowser Jr.'s Journey are consistent examples of Minions being capable of more than just being one-shot by anything. Hell, the fact that, canonically, the Goombas who fight Mario in SS survive their match with him is worthy of something. Goombas also can be stomped pretty flat by Yoshi and pop back up so they may even have a form of regen?

Although even in those games, Roy easily dealt with dozens upon dozens of the minions charging at him as he neared Bowser's castle, and he only collapsed in exhaustion near the entrance. Even then, there's still a few of those potentially town level feats discussed in the other thread to worry about regarding the minions. Uproots can also retract their legs at almost the same speed as Torkdrift's lasers, since frame conparisons are apparently a viable thing. Practically any enemy can also break large, stone blocks.

Boom Boom is also a miniboss but IIRC people consider him Large Star.

Though perhaphs this is better for the discussion thread or a new thread.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh hey I didn't notice this thread until it was applied. Since agreeing won't help much now, I'll just say thanks for putting in the work to make and apply this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

So what is left to do here?

 

[Agnaa]

The Gentle Pull and Shadoo have already been downgraded.

The Tribe of Ancients, Pixl Queen, and Spritelings don't have profiles yet, so there's nothing to do with their proposed ratings until someone makes them.

I'm not sure what needs to be done with the tiers of "villains and random mooks", the Chain Chomp page hasn't had that sort of bad scaling for a while now. But there does still seem to be discussion on this topic.

The only actionable thing that needs to be done is updating Rosalina's profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

@DDM Hyper Goombas only scale when they boost their attack power. They're considered extremely dangerous enemies in the game because of how much damage they take. They can be glass cannons sure, but their ap scales to Mario via stat boosts.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I mean, "fodder" are also what Mario uses to overcome the challenges he faces in Odyssey as well, so fodder being able to compete with bosses isn't inconsistent even in the main game. And if Odyssey 2 is released then that's 4 games now where fodder can harm bosses and enemies Mario has some struggle with.

Like, it shouldn't be written off simply because we have the idea that fodder are conplete dogshit when we've seen how incredible they can really be quite a few times now.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Fox and @DatOneWeeb, it doesn't matter how frequent it was, the problem is just from the idea of consistency. Not every game portrays as being Stellar or Massively FTL+, similar to not every comic portrays Superman as being Stellar or Massively FTL+. Feats both high end and low end, as well as "Anti-Feats" are all over the place. Mario can vary from Tier 9 to Tier 2; Bowser getting bested by his own minions is less of a feat for the mooks and more of an anti-feat for Bowser. It should be passed as PIS. Same with Mario overcoming challenges, that's just a casual low end feat. Much like Superman struggling to lift up an airplane. The Hyper Goomba example also doesn't work because glass cannons would violate Newton's Third Law. And Mario can just use Parry/Counter on Hyper Goombas, so... Anyway, we should only scale mooks from their own feats that were calculated and accepted.

I agree that Rosalina stuff is the last focus while the new profiles can just be made later.

 

[00potato]

How is it an anti feat for bowser and PIS. Just because lower end feats exist doesn't mean you can write off feats for not fitting with your scaling. Your scaling would be the problem in this case. Also there are other glass canons on this site so why are Hyper Goomba not working with physics the issue in the same setting where fire breathing turtles turn mushroom men to bricks and are burned alive in lava only to come back in the next game fine?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not the point, If Hyper Goombas were glass cannons, their head bonk would be an instant suicide attack. Most glass cannons either have a weapon being a tier above their own, or stuff like magic being far above their physical stats. Tier 4 striking strength combined with durability far less than that doesn't work at all. Don't confuse Newton's Third Law violations with various hax. And we already discussed the fodder mooks vs bosses vs main characters so many times. We can't just say, "Screw all logic, everybody is Tier 4." There has to be gaps between fodder characters, mid tiers, and god tiers.

 

[00potato]

The gaps don't need to be that large though. Also you failed to answer the argument for glass cannons existing, this setting gives 0 ***** about physics a lot of the time so why should we when indexing them? If FTL travel and magic is possible then why not glass cannons?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Glass cannons are possible, just not characters with striking strength far above durability that aren't suicide attacks. Seriously, we'd be having a lot more glass cannons if we did ignore Newton's Third law due to the whole "Impressive striking strength, but no existing durability feat on that level."

 

[00potato]

We probably should of the setting doesn't take physics into account.