Major ARMS CRT

[Truth_Bullets]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Darksspine/ARMS_Verse_Blog

I compiled all of this here since my threads have been spontaneously hidden by Lina Shields' old glitchy account, and I don't want to lose all my stuff instantly. This just happened to me on another Madness Combat CRT I was attempting to make.

Regardless, here's the blog in short:

• Characters need a tabber in their Powers and Abilities section saying what they can do with Prep, listing all the ARMS
• The verse needs its AP reasonings added
• The verse needs more in-depth stats, such as the intelligence section from the post

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Bump

 

[Jinx666]

Sounds fine. As long as its not tier upgrades, you can add all the extra abilities yeah.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Everyone has statistics amplification.

 

[Jinx666]

Dont see that anywhere

But actually now thta i ee it, i dont think they should have the abilities of every ARMS and have it under 'With Prep' (that suggests they use prep anyway, which they dont).

Just keep it normal abilities.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Rush: A technique every ARMS fighter knows, that allows them to temporarily increase the speed and power of their attacks after charging for a few seconds.

 

[Jinx666]

Yeah, thats just a Rush. Where they release a flurry of fast punches. not really attack buff, but its not a lasting statistic amplification afterwards. Its used as a special move.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

And there isn't enough non-gameplay to tell if it can be used in other ways.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

They do have them with prep. It takes time to gather the ARMS, it's not something they naturally have on hand at the start of the game. Outside of combat, they have to reset them.

Anyhow Rush isn't Stat amp

 

[Jinx666]

Yeah, but the game is a fighting game. The weapons they use are their defaults, and thanks to lack of story, its not really to say they can get these sorts of ARMS canonically, since they're only given to everyone for the sake of versatile choices in the game. Weren't all the ARMS weapons originating from different sponsors unique to each fighter too? So theres no real canon lore that shows they use the ARMs of other fighters

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Weren't all the ARMS weapons originating from different sponsors unique to each fighter too?

No. The standard equipment of each fighter has different brands.

Yeah, but the game is a fighting game. The weapons they use are their defaults, and thanks to lack of story, its not really to say they can get these sorts of ARMS canonically, since they're only given to everyone for the sake of versatile choices in the game.

If you're arguing for something outside of our knowledge canonically, I can make an argument that's the opposite and it'll have the same truth value: one that's not given.

I'm pretty sure the main, core mechanic of the game that's literally titular isn't non-canon. Besides, canon is an idea that was made to determine which plot lines and histories were the most accurate and true to one concept, for example a religion. Canon doesn't negate the main premise of that religion. And canon isn't going to negate the main premise of this game, either.

 

[Jinx666]

Well either way, those ARMS were customly made for those specific fighters, so its unlikely anyone else can canonically get them with prep time. I'd imagine you would have to have a describable scene is lore to say they can get access.

Not really, i'm pretty sure its 'Prove it' over 'Disprove it' when arguing, as in the proof that its concept is even around should be presented. Otherwise we can just say "Spring Man can gain access to Nuclear Warheads, and theres nothing saying he can't'

The fighting battles that make the game are purely for gameplay, they aren't canon interactions. Those would have to be presented in cutscenes or another medium (So like Dr. Coyle vs Max Brass). Your explanation is also really faulty since you're saying every battle played by someone in ARMs is canon, which like, wouldn't be deemed by the creators at all. It also would be stupid for scaling, not exactly in ARMS case tbf, but things like Street Fighter, you can technically beat an Akuma as Dan Hibiki, which is definitely not the case.

It's basically like Pokemon, the main protagonist too, how do we find out what their canon team is? Since they can use pretty much any team of 6 pokemon available. There is no canon explanation, so People have to turn to things like artwork instead. The only things the characters canonically wield as their defaults are the 3 sets of ARMs they each get, and have never be seen outside of those in anything official. Gameplay fighting matches aren't canon so we cant say they can get access to these specially made ARMS.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Well either way, those ARMS were customly made for those specific fighters, so its unlikely anyone else can canonically get them with prep time. I'd imagine you would have to have a describable scene is lore to say they can get access.

Over time, they can earn more ARMS to use. With prep outside of combat they can choose which is best for the situation. Again, you can't use canon to negate the core premise of the concept.

Not really, i'm pretty sure its 'Prove it' over 'Disprove it' when arguing, as in the proof that its concept is even around should be presented. Otherwise we can just say "Spring Man can gain access to Nuclear Warheads, and theres nothing saying he can't'

You strawmanned me. I wasn't saying it wasn't based on proof, I said that if you assume something we have no way to prove, I can assume the opposite and it be just as true. That's why your logic is flawed.

The fighting battles that make the game are purely for gameplay, they aren't canon interactions.

Maybe not, but I'm sure the characters can still use the equipment and scaling from those fights. If you disagree with the very basic premises we use across this entire wiki for fighting games then make a CRT on all of fighting games lol, don't attempt to debunk the principles here.

And again, you can't use canon to negate the core premise of the concept. Not once have you refuted this statement.

Your explanation is also really faulty since you're saying every battle played by someone in ARMs is canon, which like, wouldn't be deemed by the creators at all.

You strawmanned me again. I'm not saying it's all canon, I'm saying the concept of canon can't be used to negate the core principles of a game.

It also would be stupid for scaling, not exactly in ARMS case tbf, but things like Street Fighter, you can technically beat an Akuma as Dan Hibiki, which is definitely not the case.

That's both irrelevant because it has no place in an ARMS thread and a false example because how Street Fighter handles their lore can interfere with the scaling of ARMS.

It's basically like Pokemon, the main protagonist too, how do we find out what their canon team is? Since they can use pretty much any team of 6 pokemon available. There is no canon explanation, so People have to turn to things like artwork instead.

Except that's different. Pokemon handles their team systems differently canonically then ARMS handles its combat systems. This is another irrelevant false example.

The only things the characters canonically wield as their defaults are the 3 sets of ARMs they each get, and have never be seen outside of those in anything official. Gameplay fighting matches aren't canon so we cant say they can get access to these specially made ARMS.

Saying they're not canon not only is baseless, but this doesn't matter, because again, you can't use canon to negate the core premise of the concept.

 

[Jinx666]

They can't, its in a gamemode where you can have them use any ARM. Overwatch, with the main premise of that game being the 6v6 team battles, or Street Fighter with the main premise of 1 on 1 fights, dont make every possible feature of that canon to the series.

What did i assume though. Unless its specifically in main source canon (In ARMS case, cutscenes or lore, not the random matches), its not canon. Thats default assumption

They can all be scaled to eachother yeah, they're all combatants canonically and have fought eachother before with them all beng on the same tiered level. They're all also able to beat Hedlok and survive its attacks etc, so thats why they're all scaled to eachother. Thats the main premise of the game. However theres canonically saying they can use prep to get the arms of other fighters, and shouldnt be on every single ARMs fighter. The core premise of the concept character wise is that they each have 3 signature ARMS they can use. Give me one instance of them being able to use other ARMS to their default in the little lore we have, and even then that just gives one extra ability or so for one character whose shown it.

They can...since the premise of the game is a balancing 1v1 game. Using ARMS other than the default ones is a players choice, and not automatically fit into every character, since the default is those 3.

It is relevant. They're both fighting games in 1v1 settings. Dont ignore the example of it. We wouldn't make Dan Hibiki = to Akuma based on the fighting mechanics, so we should treat ARMS the same in that regard and not include the swap-ups they havent been said to use in any sort of canon lore. Why bother with giving the characters default ARMS if they can apparently use all of them canonically.

No, it isnt. They're different verses, but they're using the same Vs battle wiki terms. With things like a pokemon team, or anything that relies on player choice through the main story, (Like ARM switches), we can't go ahead and say what any canon teams or abilities are, unless theres something canon to back it up. No one in ARMs, thanks to its lack of lore, has shown the ability to wield other ARMS from other fighters, and its a game mechanic for combination. Every single character on the wiki getting all those abilities 'with prep' (A concept for characters who mainly do prepare in fights, like Batman), isn't fit for that of ARMS.

Core premise of the concept when it comes to player choice, ergo it usually all different probabilities, like an Overwatch team selection in the main concept of a 6v6, isn't something we use to base their abilities off.

Everything else is fine, just keep the powers and abilities to the defaults unless the characters canonically show they can gain access to any of these ARMS outside of the choice game mechanic. Also you dont need to add all my bold quotes to make your posts longer.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

They can't, its in a gamemode where you can have them use any ARM. Overwatch, with the main premise of that game being the 6v6 team battles, or Street Fighter with the main premise of 1 on 1 fights, dont make every possible feature of that canon to the series.

This is yet another strawman; that, or you're talking about irrelevant points. I didn't say the 1v1 fights in ARMS were canon, I even said in my last post "I'm not saying it's all cano," I just said you can't use the concept of canon to negate the core principles. Again, you have yet to refute that.

What did i assume though. Unless its specifically in main source canon (In ARMS case, cutscenes or lore, not the random matches), its not canon. Thats default assumptio

No, it's not. It's baseless. You have to compare it directly to lore, which is something we can't do (due to the scarce amount of lore and the fact that it wouldn't contradict it regardless), and to argue that it's not canon you'd have to prove it. You can't prove it isn't canon. I can't prove it's canon. Therefore, we just use the core principles.

If you assume an argument such as "its not canon," you'd be arguing for something outside of our knowledge. I can make an equal argument that contradicts yours outside of our knowledge. So you can't use the argument "its not canon."

They're all also able to beat Hedlok and survive its attacks etc, so thats why they're all scaled to eachother. Thats the main premise of the game.

No it isn't. The main premise is the ARMS. That's why it's the title of the game.

The core premise of the concept character wise is that they each have 3 signature ARMS they can use.

Again, no it isn't. Each character's core concepts are their character gimmicks and how they're reflected in their designs. The 3 signature ARMS is just something you start with because the intent is for you to unlock the others.

Give me one instance of them being able to use other ARMS to their default in the little lore we have, and even then that just gives one extra ability or so for one character whose shown it.

I don't have to.

They can...since the premise of the game is a balancing 1v1 game.

No it isn't. It's the ARMS. You also said the premise was "They're all also able to beat Hedlok and survive its attacks etc, so thats why they're all scaled to eachother," so I suggest you make up your mind.

Using ARMS other than the default ones is a players choice, and not automatically fit into every character, since the default is those 3.

Players choice doesn't make it non canon whatsoever.

It is relevant. They're both fighting games in 1v1 settings. Dont ignore the example of it. We wouldn't make Dan Hibiki = to Akuma based on the fighting mechanics, so we should treat ARMS the same in that regard and not include the swap-ups they havent been said to use in any sort of canon lore.

No, it's irrelevant because it's not ARMS. Also, how you scale one verse doesn't automatically mean you scale another verse the same way just because they're the same game genre.

Why bother with giving the characters default ARMS if they can apparently use all of them canonically.

To unlock the rest.

No, it isnt. They're different verses, but they're using the same Vs battle wiki terms.

Just because Pokemon and ARMS both can be made into VS Battles Wiki profiles doesn't mean they're similar. At all. They don't even share the same mechanics. Also, switching stuff isn't a mechanic special to either of those games, so don't make that argument either.

we can't go ahead and say what any canon teams or abilities are, unless theres something canon to back it up. No one in ARMs, thanks to its lack of lore, has shown the ability to wield other ARMS from other fighters, and its a game mechanic for combination.

You're still trying to justify using lore to negate the very principle of the game based on Pokemon's lore and how it's handled VS-wise.

Every single character on the wiki getting all those abilities 'with prep' (A concept for characters who mainly do prepare in fights, like Batman), isn't fit for that of ARMS.

No, it's fit as I've explained here.

Core premise of the concept when it comes to player choice, ergo it usually all different probabilities, like an Overwatch team selection in the main concept of a 6v6, isn't something we use to base their abilities off.

I'm not using the player's choice as a justification, I'm using the main premise of the game.

Everything else is fine, just keep the powers and abilities to the defaults unless the characters canonically show they can gain access to any of these ARMS outside of the choice game mechanic.

No, the ARMS being added to the profiles is just fine.

Also you dont need to add all my bold quotes to make your posts longer.

You even strawmanned me outside of the debate. I put excerpts in bold so it's clear what I'm addressing and easier to follow. Plus, that's how I prefer to do it. Not to make these bigger in any regard. You just say a lot of words, and I say a lot of words in response.

I'm getting an admin to review this, because this is ad nauseum on your part, along with burden of rejoinder since you haven't decided to refute the canon to core principles argument, and no one wants to waste their time on giant walls of text.

 

[Jinx666]

Okay, but the only time ARMS fighters have ever used other people's arms (When they have a default setting), is in the non-canon 1v1 matches. Its a game mechanic made solely for the versatility factor in the fighting game, nothing canon in lore or story shows a fighter being able to wield the other ARMS, or having the concept of prep.

'I can't prove its canon', yet you're arguing for it to be part of their moveset, even when you note you aren't sure. The Lore is scarce but it there sadly, so we have to follow it. Why would default ARMS be set in place for each fighter if they could just use any outside of player choice? Also, for something to be canon, it needs to be set within the story or mentioned within lore, outside of the gameplay elements. The mixing of ARMs is a gameplay element.

?, i don't get your point. I mean't the main premise being that they all fight eachother within this tournament canonically, so therefore thats the reason for their scaling, if not that, their ability to defeat Hedlok.

They are, whats not to say the abilities and the default ARMS don't work hand-in-hand? They can both be existent as the fighters gimmicks at the same time. Unlocking things in a game is another gameplay mechanic. It just shows that these fighter can't use these other ARMs right off the bat, so whats the substitute for having them off the bat canonically to use on the profiles?

I'd imagine you do in order to prove your point. But the fact is, there isn't. Lore is scarce i agree, but its still there and still gives us things.

Again, i meant the main premise of the game is the fighting tournament, since its a fighting game. Hedlok is the final boss of it, and the substitute we can definitely use to say the fighters can all be scaled to eachother

Player choice makes it unreliable to use as canon. Player choice in games, like Pokemon, can't be used to suit the actual canon of the character based on individual variable playthroughs. Its why they have to use the artwork. In ARMS case, its unreliable to use how others play the game and what ARMS combinations they use, within the gameplay elements that change. It should be somewhere in the lore with ARMS doesn't helpfully provide.

What's the problem not using SF as a comparison? They're both fighting 1v1 games. Why can't they way we sort this verse be inspired by the way we sort the SF verse? Because this is the same way for every 1v1 Fighting game verse on this wiki. ARMS shouldn't be exempt.

To unlock the rest, but whats the alternative to unlocking in canon? Unlocking things is a game mechanic.

The part they do share in similar is the choice factors. Pokemon with your party teams, and ARMS with ARM combinations. They aren't similar in mostly any other regard, but i would say this comparison still fits as an example. You can't deny they both have a degree of player choice to them, in the same way of selecting an arsenal.

I am. Theres nothing wrong with using how other verses are made to inspire others. What reason is there to say we can't use this factor in similar. Other than the reason you wan't ARMS characters with an overly diverse Abilities list based upon the player choice mechanics?

Prep is an ability itself. On the wiki, its given to characters who mainly have had to use prep time, gathering materials, etc due to perhaps intelligence or tactical capabilities being a core part of the character. Like Batman. Springman, meanwhile, eats pizza.

The premise of the game is a fighting game, correct? All these ARMs fighters in a tournament. Now, theres an ending for each of them winning, and defeating the bosses like Coyle and Hedlok. These are things we can be sure about. Abilities wise, we can use their special abilities, and we can either use the set of ARMs specifically given to each fighter (Notice how the default ARMs for each character are also, at least one, related to the characters concept or fighting style, like Min-Min's dragon canon, or Twintelle's elegant Parasol. This further shows the ARMS are designed based on the character.), or we can say each fighter can obtain all of these ARM sets based on the choice mechanics and unlocking features of the game. Unlike the set out story and lore, these are the game mechanics. Game mechanics are a term used for the things in games we can't necessariily used since they are only implemented for the gameplay.

I oppose this. Your opinion is no greater than mine to use. We will have to get more opinions yes and put it to the majority. And this is as the person who made the ARMS profiles and did the research, so there isn't a hint of this being done as bias as if im only opposing for spite.

I use the structure of the text to pinpoint what you're talking about. Its personally not difficult for me. You don't need to do it for me for my benefit, though i appreciate it. If you're doing it for yourself, then you're only copying the point from elsewhere its already written. It just makes the thread far too lengthy than it needs to be, which is playing a hand at the nauseum.

Fine by me, but we haven't exactly left a light load for someone to review. I'll be leaving a TLR in a separate post.

 

[Jinx666]

TLR

This is about adding every ARMS weapons to every fighter's arsenal in a separate key. For Admin review.

I am against this for the following reasons:

-Mainly, it is a choice mechanic, and used within unlocking mechanics when it comes to ARMS selection within the ingame fighting, rather than of the fighter's original moveset. These go under a degree of game mechanics.

-Fighter's each have a set of default 3 ARMS weapons that is given to them. And each character at least having one set that fits their personality and type. This further pushes the point of defaults being the main sets only of those fighters.

-No lore proven factor that other ARMS fighters use the same ARMS as the others. Though admittedly, the lore is scarce, but there is still nothing to support it being of an accessed arsenal

-A mention of every character within canon, such as the final boss fight with Max Brass or Dr. Coyle, shows them using their default 3 set of ARMS, further showing this is their only arsenal.

-It is fitted under a 'With Prep' key, that should be reserved more for characters who use Prep as an actual weapon based on their intelligence and access to things. ARMS characters certainly don't fit this bill. This would also make every ARMS profile an essential semi-clone of eachother, albeit 1 unique ability amongst each and slight weight/intelligence differences., which affects the interest or gimmicks of each profile, instead of making them more unique characters to use within Vs threads.

 

[Jvando]

I'm not quite well versed in this verse but I was asked to comment here so I will simply quote this;

Game mechanics are considered non-canon, and using them in an argument is considered fallacious.
	~ Game Mechanics​

So if the use of the ARMS outside the default and lore supported ones is just a game mechanic based on player choice, I don't think it should be placed on their profiles since the wiki considered Game-mechanics non-canon by default. Sorry I can't add more than this but I'm really not familiar with this verse.

 

[Jinx666]

The choice of use in ARMS themself are based on player choice, and each fighter has their own set of default ARMS yes. The ability to mix and match is indeed used for gameplay versatility and has no lore supporting it. Its fine too, ARMs as a verse kinda died sadly.