Magnitude 10.50000000...1 and Higher Earthquakes

[KingTempest]

I'm about to head to work so I can't stay and argue all day

@Eseseso found a ridiculously consistent method to calculate the Total Seismic Energy of earthquakes above the magnitude of 10.5.

The blog speaks for itself.

Eseseso Found a Crack in the Earth

vsbattles.fandom.com

I request for insight on this method in hopes of adding this to the earthquake page.

 

[Eseseso]

Tfw you revolutionize calcs for fictional earthquakes above magnitude 10.5 by accident. Lol.

Not even joking, yesterday I simply decided to use the new Grand Line width (98980 km) in KingTempests's Kabutowari calc, and since both the low-end and high-end magnitudes were well above magnitude 10.5 (about magnitude 12.384 and magnitude 12.884 for low and high end, respectively), I simply used a multiplier I had identified in the magnitude chart to get the value.

I had no idea that this wiki had been limiting fictional quakes to 10.5 at most before this.

Also, just curious, what are some calcs above magnitude 10.5 that before now had been limited to 10.5 at most?

 

[KLOL506]

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan ME NO GOOD WITH EARTHQUAKE FORMULA FORMATION so uh... help?

 

[KingTempest]

(I woulda called Migue)
@Migue79

 

[DontTalkDT]

We don't do moment magnitude (i.e. 'total seismic energy') for earthquakes above Magnitude 9.6 and that has nothing to do with whether we could use the formula.
It's because that formula requires the assumption that the Earthquake is caused by plate tectonics, like in real life. However, there is a limit to how strong an Earthquake caused by plate tectonics can get. That's because the continental plates would snap into pieces before enough tension can be produced to cause an earthquake of Magnitude above 9.6.
Hence all earthquakes above Magnitude 9.6 are by necessity to some degree supernatural (or require a different composition of the planet, which is even worse) and hence should not use that formula.

 

[Eseseso]

We don't do moment magnitude (i.e. 'total seismic energy') for earthquakes above Magnitude 9.6 and that has nothing to do with whether we could use the formula.
It's because that formula requires the assumption that the Earthquake is caused by plate tectonics, like in real life. However, there is a limit to how strong an Earthquake caused by plate tectonics can get. That's because the continental plates would snap into pieces before enough tension can be produced to cause an earthquake of Magnitude above 9.6.
Hence all earthquakes above Magnitude 9.6 are by necessity to some degree supernatural (or require a different composition of the planet, which is even worse) and hence should not use that formula.

I already asked King about that, and he said that he'd talked to some other people who said that total seismic energy was fine for certain calcs above 10.5 (like the one King made for One Piece that, after certain revisions, will have a magnitude of at least 12.384).

But regardless, I checked the multiplier for the Radiated Waves chart, and it's the exact same one: (sqrt1000) multiplier for each 1-point increase.

 

[DontTalkDT]

But regardless, I checked the multiplier for the Radiated Waves chart, and it's the exact same one: (sqrt1000) multiplier for each 1-point increase.

The formula to convert richter magnitude to radiated wave energy is 10^(1.5*(Richter Magnitude)+4.8) = Joules.

So yeah, the change is indeed sqrt(1000) or 10^1.5.

I already asked King about that, and he said that he'd talked to some other people who said that total seismic energy was fine for certain calcs above 10.5 (like the one King made for One Piece that, after certain revisions, will have a magnitude of at least 12.384).

Can't really see a scenario where that would be the case, so that calc probably needs to be revised. (Given, I haven't seen it.)

 

[Eseseso]

The formula to convert richter magnitude to radiated wave energy is 10^(1.5*(Richter Magnitude)+4.8) = Joules.

So yeah, the change is indeed sqrt(1000) or 10^1.5.

I'm just in utter shock that no one ever noticed the common multiplier for the richter scale for either of the 2 charts (radiated waves and seismic energy).

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm just in utter shock that no one ever noticed the common multiplier for the richter scale for either of the 2 charts (radiated waves and seismic energy).

I mean... we have the formulas for all viable values so I guess it was just kinda never relevant.

 

[Migue79]

We don't do moment magnitude (i.e. 'total seismic energy') for earthquakes above Magnitude 9.6 and that has nothing to do with whether we could use the formula.
It's because that formula requires the assumption that the Earthquake is caused by plate tectonics, like in real life. However, there is a limit to how strong an Earthquake caused by plate tectonics can get. That's because the continental plates would snap into pieces before enough tension can be produced to cause an earthquake of Magnitude above 9.6.
Hence all earthquakes above Magnitude 9.6 are by necessity to some degree supernatural (or require a different composition of the planet, which is even worse) and hence should not use that formula.

There's also fault length to consider (which... Good luck at trying to figure that out in any fictional work LMAOOO).

To put it into perspective, one would need a fault line the length of the Earth's diameter to produce a Magnitude 12 Earthquake. That should speak for itself as to how insane that is. This would also mean that unless the planet-size is that of a ******* star, that calc where they got that Magnitude of 12 is probably wrong.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This would also mean that unless the planet-size is that of a ******* star

Unironically the OP planet is like ~star sized

 

[Eseseso]

There's also fault length to consider (which... Good luck at trying to figure that out in any fictional work LMAOOO).

To put it into perspective, one would need a fault line the length of the Earth's diameter to produce a Magnitude 12 Earthquake. That should speak for itself as to how insane that is. This would also mean that unless the planet-size is that of a ******* star, that calc where they got that Magnitude of 12 is probably wrong.

Well, considering One Piece's planet just got upgraded to over 1 million kilometers in diameter (or 80x Earth's diameter and 2/3 the diameter of the sun, which is, as you put it, "a ******* star")...

And I double checked the calc @KingTempest made for magnitude but with the new confirmed diameter, and sure enough it always came out as magnitude 12.384 on the low end and magnitude 12.884 on the high end.

 

[Eseseso]

Look, how about we do a compromise that's logical:

An earthquake with a magnitude above 10.5 can only be calculated above 10.5 (like the One Piece world) if the planet is confirmed to be larger than Earth by a reasonably large margin.

How does that sound?

 

[Damage3245]

Technically speaking a larger planet size wouldn't necessarily mean every continent is larger, right?

 

[Eseseso]

Technically speaking a larger planet size wouldn't necessarily mean every continent is larger, right?

I don't know about that, but it would allow for larger fault lines (like how the One Piece world could actually be able to have an Earth-sized fault line due to being the size of, to quote @Migue79, "a ******* star").

That said, @Migue79 did make a solid point about fault line size, which is why I propose that Earthquakes above 10.5 should only be allowed if the fictional planet is known to be bigger than Earth by a reasonable amount.

Like the One Piece World, for instance.

 

[Eseseso]

Hence all earthquakes above Magnitude 9.6 are by necessity to some degree supernatural (or require a different composition of the planet, which is even worse) and hence should not use that formula.

Would a planet with 80x Earth's diameter count as having a different composition?

 

[Migue79]

Technically speaking a larger planet size wouldn't necessarily mean every continent is larger, right?

If you wanted to get REALLY critical, one could say that a larger planet may mean there are many more tectonic plates that compose the crust and that consequently leads to many much smaller faults that are not necessarily the size of the Earth. Not to say it’s more likely in this case (I can’t prove that), but it’s a possibility to consider, ya know?

Also, composition matters too as DT brought up given it influences rigidity constants of fault lines with different materials, which just makes things more complicated especially when the Earth alone has so many elements to use just from different locations across the planet. And this issue would only worsen with a star-sized planet lol

 

[Eseseso]

I understand these arguments, but for a world like One Piece with such ridiculous geography (heck, that's why the larger planet size was allowed in the first place), logic for things like composition and elements kind of go out the window, especially when the planet has a diameter roughly 80x that of Earth.

 

[KingTempest]

So… it’s declined?

 

[Eseseso]

Look, how about we do a compromise that's logical:

An earthquake with a magnitude above 10.5 can only be calculated above 10.5 (like the One Piece world) if the planet is confirmed to be larger than Earth by a reasonably large margin.

How does that sound?

I understand these arguments, but for a world like One Piece with such ridiculous geography (heck, that's why the larger planet size was allowed in the first place), logic for things like composition and elements kind of go out the window, especially when the planet has a diameter roughly 80x that of Earth.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Why does fiction have to be restricted to such an extent? this is specifically just for the Earthquake calcs. I'm asking out of real ignorance lol.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

because much of the science we apply to fiction is derived from strict boundaries and thus requires certain conditions to be met for the results to be valid and accurate. It’s part of the give and take of using real life physics to quantify made up worlds.

 

[Migue79]

So… it’s declined?

I'm gonna remain neutral on this myself for the moment. This is something that's interesting and I feel should be further discussed between us.

Although given how circumstantial this will be with most Earths in fiction being the same/very similar as ours, I am not sure if it'll be necessary to add to the pages.

 

[Eseseso]

I just think that, since the One Piece World (which just got a new size accepted) is so ridiculously different from our own world, it seems a bit silly to apply all this real world logic to it.

Like I've repeatedly said before, we should just say that only fictional habitable planets confirmed to have a size far above Earth's (like the ones from Toriko, One Piece, and Fairy Tail) should be able to use this calc for magnitudes above 10.5.

Besides, there aren't that many other fictional planets other than the OP world that are habitable but much bigger than Earth where this Earthquake stuff can be applied, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[KingTempest]

Ok, I'm off work now.

Alright so from what I'm seeing, there's a huge issue with the method Eseseso derived because of the limits that we have irl, how there's a certain amount they could move before they break, the calculation method in general, etc.

Eseseso brought up a good point which aligns with Migue's point. What if the planet... wasn't earth?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Is this method usable for shaking feats that use the Earthquake formula for say shaking a galaxy/universe?

 

[KingTempest]

no

 

[Eseseso]

Is this method usable for shaking feats that use the Earthquake formula for say shaking a galaxy/universe?

Probably not.

 

[Eseseso]

But, IIRC, in DBZ Toei anime (and this is anime only), the fight between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu shook and damaged the Planet of the Kais, which is multi-galaxy size, so since IIRC it both damaged and shook the planet in the anime, then the calc could theoretically be used, since I doubt a planet of the gods would follow Earthly logic/laws of composition and such.

 

[Eseseso]

And at least for the wacky One Piece world, I think this can be applied.

 

[Eseseso]

How about someone find all the earthquake calcs on vs battles that are above magnitude 10.5, link them here, and then we can see whether my measurement formula can be used or not.

If it is normal old Earth (like in DC/Marvel), then no, courtesy of the reason(s) given above by @Migue79.

If it is a wacky world (One Piece, Toriko, Fairy Tail, etc), then probably yes.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Look, how about we do a compromise that's logical:

An earthquake with a magnitude above 10.5 can only be calculated above 10.5 (like the One Piece world) if the planet is confirmed to be larger than Earth by a reasonably large margin.

How does that sound?

Can't use the Earthquake formulas for larger than Earth planets at all. One reason being that such planets have a different composition, the other reason being that our Earthquake formulas actually have planet size stealthily baked into them, meaning that they don't hold at all if you increase the planet radius. (at least the above 700km version)

 

[Eseseso]

Can't use the Earthquake formulas for larger than Earth planets at all. One reason being that such planets have a different composition, the other reason being that our Earthquake formulas actually have planet size stealthily baked into them, meaning that they don't hold at all if you increase the planet radius. (at least the above 700km version)

Even if you are right, then how exactly would we be able to calc Earthquakes on planets that differ from Earth?

Because this proposal could hurt the feats/calcs for a lot of fictional verses by trying to use real world logic for completely fictional and unEarthlike worlds.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

then how exactly would we be able to calc Earthquakes on planets that differ from Earth?

Artificial quake equation.

 

[Eseseso]

Artificial quake equation.

?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

?

Earthquake Calculations

An earthquake (also known as a quake, tremor or temblor) is the perceptible shaking of the surface of the Earth. Earthquakes can be violent enough to toss people around and destroy whole cities. Such earthquakes being caused by characters are a method useable to determine Attack Potency. For the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

r ≥ 700 km: In this case the formula is (Magnitude at distance) + 6.399 + 1.66*log((r/110)((2π)/360)) = Richter Magnitude of Earthquake

Others: Used for any artificially created earthquakes or earthquakes that aren't the former two. The formula is 10^[1.5*(Richter Magnitude)+4.8] = Energy in Joules

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The Author would use strong Earthquakes to demonstrate a characters power. For example if a "god/diety/Divine being" in a fictional setting wanted to show their wrath and displeasure of humanity by shaking; (earthquake; stated to be an earthquake/ scientist in verse mistake it for a natural disaster and Richter scales thingies are shown to react) the whole planet; (Earth); causing tsunamis, Landslides, sunk islands and mountains, and caused many volcanoes to erupt around the entire globe. Naturally, the epicenter of such a quake should snap the planet in half with that much energy, but its fiction.

The Author; (and the characters in the setting of the story); wouldn't want the planet to get destroyed. The planet would be protected by plot convenience, stupidity, or maybe scientific ignorance; i guess? I think holding fiction to such a strict standard for earthquake calcs might be a bit too strict, but that's just my opinion though.

random example i created off the top of my head. might not be a good one, but hopefully what im trying to say made sense and got across well enough...

 

[KLOL506]

Can't use the Earthquake formulas for larger than Earth planets at all. One reason being that such planets have a different composition, the other reason being that our Earthquake formulas actually have planet size stealthily baked into them, meaning that they don't hold at all if you increase the planet radius. (at least the above 700km version)

Not even the Other formula? Are all quake formulae invalid for planets that are smaller than/bigger than Earth or only have a solid surface with no tectonic plates?

 

[Eseseso]

1. @KingTempest informed me that he talked with some people and they said that it was ok to use Total Seismic Energy for Whitebeard's Kabutowari Earthquake calc that tempest made.

2. As I've said, it is fine to limit magnitude to no more than 10.5 for Earth and Earth like planets, but for a world like One Piece (which has a size far above Earth), this is downright absurd, and also unfairly interferes with calcs for multiple verses because it's trying to apply real world logic to completely fictional planets.

Is there any other proposal for finding the power of Earthquakes above 10.5 for fictional planets that are different from Earth and much larger?

Because otherwise it seems pretty unfair to multiple franchises, such as One Piece.

 

[Eseseso]

Basically, what the opposition is saying:

Earth-like planets can't use this since it can't be used on Earth due to fault line size.

But planets that aren't Earth-like can't use this either because...they aren't Earth like.

??????