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Magi Stuff 2

Pain seems to make sense to me. This seems far too uncertain to apply for such a drastic upgrade.

Are you certain about this @Elizhaa ?
 
I thought that you want to rate Sinbad, Ugo, and David as being able to ascend to the top of the hierarchy instantly whenever they want to, by swapping positions with other deities.
 
Antvasima said:
I thought that you want to rate Sinbad, Ugo, and David as being able to ascend to the top of the hierarchy instantly whenever they want to, by swapping positions with other deities.
Click to expand...
Yes, but they can never reach the top
 
From what I recall of the manga, they would need to handle it one reality-fiction layer at a time, and have to assemble massive amounts of Rukh first every time, but I may misremember.
 
Antvasima said:
From what I recall of the manga, they would need to handle it one reality-fiction layer at a time, and have to assemble massive amounts of Rukh first every time, but I may misremember.
Click to expand...
What you are talking about is ascending, it is completely different from swapping the Hierarchy. It is the same agurment pain tried to use but both are different
 
Antvasima said:
From what I recall of the manga, they would need to handle it one reality-fiction layer at a time, and have to assemble massive amounts of Rukh first every time, but I may misremember.
Click to expand...
Yes you're correct at that part, but we don't upgrade them because they can ascend to higher reality via massive amount of rukh, we upgrade them because they swap rank while still remain in the same reality
 
Okay, and how high an infinity does the same reality reach, via established proof?
 
Okay. That does not tell us any specifics though.
 
How so? Weren't David and Sinbad simply pushing each other up and down in relation to each other?
 
Okay. I unfortunately don't have the time to investigate an entire extra thread though. My apologies.
 
Lormac_CC said:
No problem, but this scan should help, the ability enables him change the ranks with gods of higher worlds
Click to expand...
this is the part where i am saying you need to read my posts properly, what my post was saying is
how does this affect Sinbad, Ugo and David? have they themselves been shown to swap hierarchy with a god way above them? as the scan you posted applies to them, so at most what they have been doing is swap with someone directly above them and never did more than that on the other hand they can arrange the hierarchy of the gods which is why they have 1B with SP in the first place (though not combat applicable). what you are proposing is they themselves can swap with someone 10000000D above them which well aside from the fact they were never implied or stated to do so, the times they were shown to use the SP on themselves it is for gods directly above them so it is really a reach to say they can do that while ignoring how he compared cells and whole organisms and that applies to them also
 
Pain_to12 said:
this is the part where i am saying you need to read my posts properly, what my post was saying is
how does this affect Sinbad, Ugo and David? have they themselves been shown to swap hierarchy with a god way above them? as the scan you posted applies to them, so at most what they have been doing is swap with someone directly above them and never did more than that on the other hand they can arrange the hierarchy of the gods which is why they have 1B with SP in the first place (though not combat applicable).
Click to expand...
Yes they can swap ranks with gods from the endless Hierarchy of worlds, no scan shows that they swap with someone directly above them, you can get scan that shows that cause I haven't posted a scan that says directly, all scan I have posted simply says, I can change the ranks of gods on the Hierarchy with the last scan I posted showing Ugo saying he can ranks with gods from the endless Hierarchy of worlds. So get the scan

Pain_to12 said:
what you are proposing is they themselves can swap with someone 10000000D above them which well aside from the fact they were never implied or stated to do so, the times they were shown to use the SP on themselves it is for gods directly above them so it is really a reach to say they can do that
Click to expand...
Yes, the very fact that it was mentioned that they can change the ranks with gods from the Hierarchy, Everytime they swapped the ranks they actually did it. You keep mentioning gods directly above them but you aren't getting a single scan for your agurment.
Pain_to12 said:
while ignoring how he compared cells and whole organisms and that applies to them also
Click to expand...
I don't see how this affects this agurment.
 
Pain_to12 said:
what you are proposing is they themselves can swap with someone 10000000D above them which well aside from the fact they were never implied or stated to do so,
Click to expand...
The very fact that it was mentioned that they scan swap order of gods within the endless Hierarchies of worlds. You need to bring scans that they swap with a god directly above them. For analogy,
1,2,3,4,5,6,7....
The story basically say Ugo change the order of how those numbers are arranged, this mean he can change 1 with 7 or 1 with 4. That is the basic meaning of changing the order of how things are arranged. Now you are saying the he can only change 1 with 2, then 1 with 3. To support your claim you need scans which you have failed to provide
 
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Pls for the sake of god, go get a scan which says that they can only swap ranks with the gods above them one layer if you can
 
Lormac_CC said:
Yes they can swap ranks with gods from the endless Hierarchy of worlds, no scan shows that they swap with someone directly above them, you can get scan that shows that cause I haven't posted a scan that says directly, all scan I have posted simply says, I can change the ranks of gods on the Hierarchy with the last scan I posted showing Ugo saying he can ranks with gods from the endless Hierarchy of worlds. So get the scan


Yes, the very fact that it was mentioned that they can change the ranks with gods from the Hierarchy, Everytime they swapped the ranks they actually did it. You keep mentioning gods directly above them but you aren't getting a single scan for your agurment.

I don't see how this affects this agurment.
Click to expand...
again like i said you seem to not understand my posts.
1. Yes they can swap ranks of the gods within the hierarchy
2. Yes they can also use the SP on themselves to change their own rank
3. When they were shown to change the ranks of themselves it was only with somene of a single transcedence, David x ugo, ugo x david
4. NLF to say they can swap their own rank up to 100000D at a go(if that is what the OP is proposing) as they never did that.
5. i am not saying they cannot change the order of the gods, i am talking about how it affect them as you are proposing they can swap with 100000000D even when they never did so or implied to do so
6. The one cell not understanding what the entire organism analogy is used to explain how a lower world will not understand what a higher world is about and it applies to the gods too.
Lormac_CC said:
The very fact that it was mentioned that they scan swap ranks within the endless Hierarchies of worlds. You need to bring scans that they swap with a god directly above them. For analogy,
1,2,3,4,5,6,7....
The story basically say Ugo change the order of how those numbers are arranged, this mean he can change 1 with 7 or 1 with 4. That is the basic meaning of changing the order of how things are arranged. Now you are saying the he can only change 1 with 2, then 1 with 3. To support your claim you need scans which you have failed to provide
Click to expand...
that will be nice if i ever made such claims about them only being able to change 1 or 2, my claims has always been
1. the only time they used the SP on themselves it was to switch with the person above them not directly go 1000000D
2. NLF to say they can do such when they never did, stated to do it or implied to do so

so please read properly to understand, i plan on making a CRT later on to remove the ratings anyway as they are wrong and not even combat applicable when taken outside of magi verse
 
I still think that Pain makes sense above.

Would you be willing to read and evaluate his posts @Elizhaa ?
 
Pain_to12 said:
When they were shown to change the ranks of themselves it was only with somene of a single transcedence, David x ugo, ugo x david
Click to expand...
Everytime they swapped
Pain_to12 said:
NLF to say they can swap their own rank up to 100000D at a go(if that is what the OP is proposing) as they never did that
Click to expand...
They did, but your opinion is that they where only going layer by layer
Pain_to12 said:
i am not saying they cannot change the order of the gods, i am talking about how it affect them as you are proposing they can swap with 100000000D even when they never did so or implied to do so
Click to expand...
Again, they did this Everytime they swapped that Hierarchy
Pain_to12 said:
The one cell not understanding what the entire organism analogy is used to explain how a lower world will not understand what a higher world is about and it applies to the gods too
Click to expand...
Yes, they story said that, right in that same panel, it also said it is possible to change the order of worlds
Pain_to12 said:
the only time they used the SP on themselves it was to switch with the person above them not directly
Click to expand...
This is getting hard. Please get a scan to support your claim. The only scan that supported you had a different translation
Pain_to12 said:
NLF to say they can do such when they never did, stated to do it or implied to do so
Click to expand...
The moment they changed the order, they did so.
Pain_to12 said:
so please read properly to understand, i plan on making a CRT later on to remove the ratings anyway as they are wrong and not even combat applicable when taken outside of magi verse
Click to expand...
You can make the CRT, I wouldn't get into that right but get a scan to support your claim,
 
Please get a scan, it is getting difficult because you just keep saying stuff which are head canon
 
Pain_to12 said:
as this is the only thing that actually matters here, when did they do this?
Click to expand...
I already answered, every time they changed the order. Please get a scan to support your claim as every other scan that talks about the Hierarchy supports my claim
 
Story never said they went layer by layer, infact it said they change order with those higher worlds. Now get a scan for layer by layer stuff
 
Lormac_CC said:
That they go layer by layer
Click to expand...
not exactly this will be oversimplifying it, cause literally all what you were saying does not address my claim which was why i had to ask.
another quick question, how does this new revision affects SP users outside of magi verse?
and another question, you said something not sure what you mean but are you saying that Ugo once swapped himself with a 100000+D god?
 
Pain_to12 said:
how does this new revision affects SP users outside of magi verse?
Click to expand...
It doesn't affect anybody out the verse, it is a verse mechanism, this is why vs battles can do things like without the sacred palace and restrict things from characters. It is just like saying Naruto can't fight in bleach verse because there isn't chakara
Pain_to12 said:
you said something not sure what you mean but are you saying that Ugo once swapped himself with a 100000+D god
Click to expand...
He can swap orders of worlds on that Hierarchy, there isn't any limiting factor except the collapse of the SP
Pain_to12 said:
cause literally all what you were saying does not address my claim which was why i had to ask
Click to expand...
You had no evidence for you claim in the first place. Things address your claim but you chose to disagree
 
Last edited:
Delta333 said:
Can you explain to me how can he make sense when he can't even bring a single proper scan?
Click to expand...
He illustrates how your evidence seems too unclear and insufficient for such an extreme upgrade.
 
Looking back at it, the evidence, likely due to my general lack of knowledge when it comes to the verse, seems a little lacking for an upgrade like this
 
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