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Magi: Labyrinth of Magic upgrades?

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My bad I posted it wrong, the "Unknown, Higher" was for Arba. I left Hakuryuu just as "Unknown"

Should I write "Higher to an Unknow extent" For both of them? or leave Hakuryuu's Hax at unknown and write that only for Arba?
 
You can start a separate content revision thread for discussing the calculation, and then ask the rest of the calculation group to help evaluate it:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/370627
 
No problem.
 
None of this is mine, I found it posted on a website.

Magi characters have at least relativistic reaction speed and I will prove how.

First I'll prove that the magic in Magi is indeed natural phenomena and not magical attacks.

This page states that ruhk creates all natural phenomena in the world and magicians manipulate the ruhk to create magic.

http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v05/c046/15.html

this page also states Judal "created thunder" http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v05/c046/16.html


Another statement that proves ruhk creates all natural phenomena in the world. http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v12/c151/8.html

Miss Myers literally says that they're creating natural calamities with magic. http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v12/c151/9.html

Myers again states that magicians create natural phenomena http://i.imgur.com/0Fibfv2.png

Now that I've provided statements of magic being natural, I'll get onto the feats that prove that the magic is natural phenomena.

Aladdin used magic to manipulate heat and water to create a mirage http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v06/c103/3.html

More proof of magic behaving like their natural counter parts. http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v06/c109/8.html
The light was dispersed/weakened by Yam's fog.

Yam reflected the light attack back using a mirror, reflection is another property of light. http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v06/c109/16.html http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v06/c109/17.html


Aladdin's light ray was also weakened by steam magic. http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v12/c150/12.html

Now that I've proven that magic attacks behave like natural phenomena I'll get onto the light speed reaction feats.

Titus reacted to Aladdin's light ray http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v12/c150/12.html

Yam reacted to several light speed attacks http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v06/c109/14.html

http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v06/c109/16.html

http://m.*********.co/manga/magi/v06/c109/2.html

And Elder David has also reacted to light speed attacks http://www1.mangafreak.net/Read1_Magi_230_8

That's three different characters that have reacted to light speed attacks on three different occasions so it isn't an outlier either.
Since they are only reacting to the light attacks and not dodging them I'll leave their speed at relativistic.
 
@AidenBrooks999 Agreed.
 
@AidenBrooks999 I don't fully agree with the information that is shown, after all it's not mine. You can't simply say it's only magic when in the posts it was stated that the rukh causes the natural phenomena for example lightning, and is also stated that natural phenomena can be created through using magic.
 
But is not the same:

Exceptions are normally for: If (example) the lightning comes from a God like Zeus, who, in his mythology, is the creator of the lightning

Or if the lightning came from a Cloud (even if is magic, ONLY if they creater the cloud, and then the lightning came from it, But can't say that is real lightning)

Not even talking about light.
 
So, MHS+ bleach should be removed, since most characters are scaled from Candice.

Laxus shouldn't be rated as MHS+ attack speed

the same for Meliodas full countering Gilthunder lightning

It's constantly stated that rukth cause natural phenomena and since there are calcs that put characters at MHS i don't think it's and outlier
 
@Gabriel I don't know about Candice and Mel, but Laxus is only MHS in attack speed because he can use cloud to ground lightning. And Brandon is talking about light, not lightning. Aiden was just explaining why we can't just assume something to be as fast as the real thing if it's being done through magic. He just used lightning as an example there.

On the topic of light attacks in Magi being real light, i'm going to stay neutral for a while longer. There are some solid arguments supporting it, but Relativistic Magi just feels too weird.
 
I don't know why it isn't accepted as real elements when we have several instances of characters saying that rukh generates this kind of stuff. Hell, Alibaba's entire strategy of using real fire to regenerate magoi(in Balbadd arc) already proves it, and in their fight against Kassim i'm pretty sure Aladdin uses fire magic to do the same and power up Alibaba, which means that Aladdin's fire has the same effect as real fire. Kouen and Baba taking a bath in magma is another instance.

I think Magi characters have really fast reactions but I don't think they're that fast in long distance travel, barring some exceptions.

Magi v5-159
 
i agree with Inoue,

everything in magi consists out of rukh, this is evident in the incident with the billian-hands ill-ilah-medium that destroyed everything after absorbing the rukh out of it,

the relatioship works both ways, rukh -> real element and real element -> rukh...
 
It seems to be right since the scan Inoue posted basically explains that the elemental magic is the same as natural elements plus all the scans Brandon posted to back it up. That migh mean Magi's high and top tiers are at least relativistic in reaction and combat speed.
 
I can barely accept Lightning

Let alone acceot that as real light.


Want some advice: Make a thread apart from this one about this, if you get enough input (from staff members) then, if you want, I can calc some feat to get the exact speed
 
Well, the above scan does state that magoi can generate thunderstorms with lightning, so that part may be acceptable.

However, we have no proof that those energy beams were made of light, and not more slow-moving magic blasts that are typical within fiction.

In addition, there is always the issue of simply timing the opponent's movements, and parrying in accordance, in the manner of Aim Dodging.
 
Here's about Light magic and other types of Rukh too. It's basically a more detailed explanation of what Sinbad said in vol 4(or 5 dunno, the one I posted). Also some info on magicians.

Magi v14-171





Magi v14-172


Magi v14-173
 
Hmm. I am still rather uncertain about scaling from the speed of real light. It depends on what the rest of the community thinks.
 
i dont see any reason why we dont do it, BlackClover is a lot weaker in AP but has relativistic reaction speeds too,

and exspecially considering the relationship of rukh and the elements i dont see why they arent seen real light, it even gets stopped via things that usually mess with light, for example fog:

http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/16-150.0/compressed/u011.jpg

we decided the the villian of Black Clover also has real light beams because it got mentioned as lightspeed several times AND it got the same weaknesses (mirror reflecting it and darkness being the direct counter)...
 
Yeah I'm just posting scans to prove how magic works in the verse, not saying that they are or aren't relativistic and whatno. Also like GreatestSin said you can find more with the medium or il-Illah killing everything or powering up by sucking the rukh out of trees, sand, the sea and a bunch of other things.
 
Well, I suppose that you have a point. However, we would need to get some feats calculated to scale them to relativistic or sub-relativistic speeds in any case.
 
^the scan i posted has first alladin shooting his attack and than titus protecting himself against it, that means titus's reaction feat (and activation speed of easy spells) is at relativistic,

the anime shows how the beam is shot and than fog appears that distorts it,

and in the manga/anime the people also said that titus counters all of alladins spells with a spell of the superior element, that means titus must see alladins attack first :)
 
Well, you can ask the calculation group members if they are interested in calculating it.
 
@Ant

not sure if that feat can be calced :/ titus reacted after alladin shot the beam, and if we all agree that the elements generated by rukh are real elements than this would mean titus has at least relativistic reaction speed right?

another lightbeam dodging feat with actual dodging instead of only reacting (but i guess this is a aim dodge): http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/12-109.0/compressed/mmagi109_006.jpg

but there is another example for rukh-light being the same as real light: http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/12-109.0/compressed/mmagi109_008.jpg

and here we get the same situation that happened in BlackClover:

http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/12-109.0/compressed/mmagi109_014.jpg

http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/12-109.0/compressed/mmagi109_015.jpg

http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/12-109.0/compressed/mmagi109_016.jpg

http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/12-109.0/compressed/mmagi109_017.jpg

http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6151/12-109.0/compressed/mmagi109_018.jpg

mirrors always reflect light ^_^
 
@AidenBrooks999 Well, I would appreciate if you could calculate the best Magi speed feats, that have been mentioned in this thread.

@GreatestSin It depends on the distance to the laser.
 
^wouldnt the distance only play a role if they are like thousands of kilometers away from each other? but for the particular example of alladin vs titus: they fought inside a battlefield that was overseen by the entire magic school, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2KTlPBLSpU go at 0:25, there he uses "Flash" (the light spell) and titus immedatly reacts with the fog-spell ^_^
 
If they were 10 meters away from each other, it would still only result in 1/10th lightspeed, if Aladdin had to move 1 meter to counter.
 
@aiden

it doesnt contradict the manga at all, i only used it in order to make the distance easier to assume, something like that is allowed i think...

@Ant

that is new to me, as far as i know, reacting to legit light= relativistic reaction speed, otherwise why are aster and yami mentioned to be relativistic?
 
Everything depends on the distance to the source. This is very basic mathematics.
 
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