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I know the cosmology is already 1b, I will just add 2b to the cosmology
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Magi General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Valeska24
- Start date
- 568
- 642
- Thread starter
- #42
@Lormac_CC Actually, I will give this 2b cosmology from the horizontal dimensions of the Magi and Alibaba was saying that he can combine these dimensions (with his special magic) I think he can get 2b-4d dimensional manipulation from here But this is just my opinion at the moment, I'm looking into this a little more
Lormac_CC
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The thing is that Horizontal dimensions might be 1-C rather than 2-B
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This is strange to hear, but it is not impossible. first, we need to get a 2B scaling accepted, and then we can agree on whether it can be scaled higher
Lormac_CC
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The only person that scales to the horizontal dimension is Ilah
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Not as a tier but actually as hax
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Guys, infinite D magi...
100% of the magoi of a God is capable of unifying all dimensions [infinite hierarchy of R>F] that is why the world has to return to Rukh because 100% of the magoi of a God is needed and Solomon used Ill Ilah magoi to create the world so to achieve 100% of a god's magoi it is necessary to have possession of the Ill Ilah magoi that Solomon stole and used to create the world and currently constitutes everything that exists in the world.
Sure
Lormac_CC
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No, Context is important here. It takes the power of a god to connect dimensions in his layer not the entire R/F layersSure
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Ugo said:
Ugo said:
Nope, what was said is contextually about the hierarchy of gods.Ugo said:
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Lormac_CC
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Not at all, the raws uses "interfere with one dimension" rather than cross. Also, there are only two instances when dimensions where connected. First was Alibaba crossing, the other was when Ugo transported people from Alma torran to the the real world using illah magoi. I believe Ugo was referring to the latter
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Cross obviously also means getting somewhere, which in this case would be the upper world, at least in the case of the official translation, I don't know Japanese, I'll see if I can ask a translator to translate the raw later.
Lormac_CC
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Is what is written on the side useful?
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Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)
can this lil bit of text get translated?
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Lormac_CC
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As for what would qualify, a list of questions one should ask themself is:
The first one finds itself more easily apparent in the more "mystical" or "metaphysical" instances of R>F Transcendence. For example, in cosmologies where the universe is defined as being illusory, and there is a "more real" reality existing above it. Chronicles of Narnia is a good example of a such thing (Drawing from the concept of the Platonic Cave), and so is this scene from Persona 2: Eternal Punishment.
Here you see that, by "illusion," what's needed is not something like the Matrix, which is really just a virtual space created by manipulations ultimately rooted in physical things (Brain electricity and etc, meaning the illusion is in fact just as "real" as the world behind it). What's needed is the world, itself, being devoid of substance (Existence) to a higher reality, even if it nevertheless has some mode of existence of its own.
For an illustrative example of this, take this scene from Mike Carey's The Unwritten as a reference point, where the Leviathan is described as "too real" and "too solid" compared to the world below it. Another way to think of it is to picture the following: A character with Nonexistent Physiology, except their nonexistence is depicted as making them intrinsically inferior to things that exist. That's how a character with a R>F Transcendence ought to see things below themselves.
For more ordinary forms of R>F, this would in turn be inferred by asking yourself yet another question: Is this higher world, quite literally, just a "real world"? Are those characters just people? Authors and readers and consumers of media? Are they not just cosmic entities being non-literally portrayed as such? An example of a verse where the answer to this is "Yes" would be, again, The Unwritten, and the very image of the Reality-Fiction Transcendence article should give one a pretty good initial idea of what's expected from this type of R>F. Though, mind you: You can be simultaneously a literal author and a genuine cosmic entity. These two are not mutually exclusive deals at all.
This could be asked of beings who dream realities into existence, too. For example, one such character that would most certainly never qualify for a genuine Reality-Fiction Transcendence is the One Being from Mortal Kombat, who is stated to create reality with its dreams, and yet also is reality: The realms composing the universe are splintered fragments of it. Suggesting that its dreaming stuff is no Reality-Fiction Transcendence at all, and in fact just a feat of Subjective Reality.
The second one is straightforward, and is only really a factor in the second forms of R>F described above: Is the "real world" really being depicted as something transcendentally powerful, compared to the fictional reality? A good example of what I mean by this would be this scene from Final Crisis: Superman Beyond, where Superman reaches out to try and grasp what is implied to be the reader of the comic, and describes it as "something immense beyond understanding." The Luminous Being from Dungeons and Dragons would be yet another instance of this.
In contrast, there can be characters who are depicted as literal authors and so on, but whose exact relationship with the fictional world is... vague, at best. In many such cases, you could very well interpret them as simply living externally to these worlds, and as having control over them, not involving total ontological transcendence at all. In which case, they'd be similar to the example of the One Being given above, simply swap dreams with books or whatever you like.
The third one is just as important as the above two, and in most cases will probably be what makes or breaks whether your R>F Transcendence is 1-A or not: Are beings from the fictional reality interacting with the "real world" despite having no business doing that? As an example: In Bravely Default, the real world is an actual important plot-point, referred to as the "Celestial Realm" where the gods live. It appears to be very much a literal real world, so much so that, at the end of the game, the 3DS camera turns on and projects the player's face over the background as a showcase of the Celestial Realm. Furthermore, the characters are referred to as lesser beings compared to the Celestials, who as said before, are also "gods" to them.
So, that seems to have a good case for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence, right? No, not really, because a plot-point in the game is also that the villain, Ouroboros, hatched a scheme to link together a bunch of alternate universes, in the hopes of consuming them and, in doing so, increase his power enough to breach into the Celestial Realm. That implies continuity between the higher world and the lower one in the sense described above, which is, of course, unacceptable. Another example would be this, which, of course, dispenses all explanation.
Of course, given the above-mentioned factors, such things would have to be very definitely explained in a revised version of the Reality-Fiction Transcendence page. As has been said: Not everything that looks like R>F is R>F in a genuine sense (Including many things we currently accept as sufficing for it), and so I would very much like to note that down.
- Does the higher world actually see the lower world as something immaterial, and insubstantial? Is there any continuity between it and the lower world, as there is with higher and lower-dimensional spaces, or even with finite and infinite things? Can there be?
- Is this actually being depicted as a matter of power, or, more precisely, something analogous to "size"?
- Can lesser existences unexplainedly interact or potentially interact with the higher existences, on their own, without any external (Or otherwise anomalous) assistance at play?
The first one finds itself more easily apparent in the more "mystical" or "metaphysical" instances of R>F Transcendence. For example, in cosmologies where the universe is defined as being illusory, and there is a "more real" reality existing above it. Chronicles of Narnia is a good example of a such thing (Drawing from the concept of the Platonic Cave), and so is this scene from Persona 2: Eternal Punishment.
Here you see that, by "illusion," what's needed is not something like the Matrix, which is really just a virtual space created by manipulations ultimately rooted in physical things (Brain electricity and etc, meaning the illusion is in fact just as "real" as the world behind it). What's needed is the world, itself, being devoid of substance (Existence) to a higher reality, even if it nevertheless has some mode of existence of its own.
For an illustrative example of this, take this scene from Mike Carey's The Unwritten as a reference point, where the Leviathan is described as "too real" and "too solid" compared to the world below it. Another way to think of it is to picture the following: A character with Nonexistent Physiology, except their nonexistence is depicted as making them intrinsically inferior to things that exist. That's how a character with a R>F Transcendence ought to see things below themselves.
For more ordinary forms of R>F, this would in turn be inferred by asking yourself yet another question: Is this higher world, quite literally, just a "real world"? Are those characters just people? Authors and readers and consumers of media? Are they not just cosmic entities being non-literally portrayed as such? An example of a verse where the answer to this is "Yes" would be, again, The Unwritten, and the very image of the Reality-Fiction Transcendence article should give one a pretty good initial idea of what's expected from this type of R>F. Though, mind you: You can be simultaneously a literal author and a genuine cosmic entity. These two are not mutually exclusive deals at all.
This could be asked of beings who dream realities into existence, too. For example, one such character that would most certainly never qualify for a genuine Reality-Fiction Transcendence is the One Being from Mortal Kombat, who is stated to create reality with its dreams, and yet also is reality: The realms composing the universe are splintered fragments of it. Suggesting that its dreaming stuff is no Reality-Fiction Transcendence at all, and in fact just a feat of Subjective Reality.
The second one is straightforward, and is only really a factor in the second forms of R>F described above: Is the "real world" really being depicted as something transcendentally powerful, compared to the fictional reality? A good example of what I mean by this would be this scene from Final Crisis: Superman Beyond, where Superman reaches out to try and grasp what is implied to be the reader of the comic, and describes it as "something immense beyond understanding." The Luminous Being from Dungeons and Dragons would be yet another instance of this.
In contrast, there can be characters who are depicted as literal authors and so on, but whose exact relationship with the fictional world is... vague, at best. In many such cases, you could very well interpret them as simply living externally to these worlds, and as having control over them, not involving total ontological transcendence at all. In which case, they'd be similar to the example of the One Being given above, simply swap dreams with books or whatever you like.
The third one is just as important as the above two, and in most cases will probably be what makes or breaks whether your R>F Transcendence is 1-A or not: Are beings from the fictional reality interacting with the "real world" despite having no business doing that? As an example: In Bravely Default, the real world is an actual important plot-point, referred to as the "Celestial Realm" where the gods live. It appears to be very much a literal real world, so much so that, at the end of the game, the 3DS camera turns on and projects the player's face over the background as a showcase of the Celestial Realm. Furthermore, the characters are referred to as lesser beings compared to the Celestials, who as said before, are also "gods" to them.
So, that seems to have a good case for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence, right? No, not really, because a plot-point in the game is also that the villain, Ouroboros, hatched a scheme to link together a bunch of alternate universes, in the hopes of consuming them and, in doing so, increase his power enough to breach into the Celestial Realm. That implies continuity between the higher world and the lower one in the sense described above, which is, of course, unacceptable. Another example would be this, which, of course, dispenses all explanation.
Of course, given the above-mentioned factors, such things would have to be very definitely explained in a revised version of the Reality-Fiction Transcendence page. As has been said: Not everything that looks like R>F is R>F in a genuine sense (Including many things we currently accept as sufficing for it), and so I would very much like to note that down.
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Yes, the only thing that could be a problem is this requirement
But it is resolved by the fact that lesser beings interact through narratively superior things like ill-ilah's magoi.
Lormac_CC
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Alright
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so R/F magi doesn't qualify?
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Technically both, the concept was shared through solomon creating the universe with ill-ilah's magoi and the ability was taught by ill-ilah, every universe has the concept of magic because they are composed of Rukh.
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R>F qualifies, what I meant is that the only possible problem was the interaction of less real characters with more real characters but it's not really a problem because these interactions only happen through abilities coming from more real characters or more real artifacts.
Lormac_CC
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Magi doesn't have conceptual manipulation
Lormac_CC
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I believe this will easily be covered by the fact that narrative/thoughts are controlled by the higher worlds
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I was using the word in the same sense that you used referring to the idea that it is magic and not literal conceptual manipulation -_-
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What CRT removed Acausality (Type 4) from Arba and the dimension stuff?
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Acausality/EE/regeneration for Sinbad
After the new justification, I have a question about this. Sinbad: (Type 4; as a Singularity, Sinbad is born with a vast amount of Magoi and is capable of deviating from fate and “feel” fate. He is also halfway Fallen into Depravity) This is not Acausality type 4. Acausality (Type 4; as a...
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higher dimensional existence?
Magi's HDE Removal (Part 2 of ???? HDE Removals)
This should be more straightforward. Magi characters like Sinbad and the other gods have HDE due to the fact that they are part of the god's hierarchy, a hierarchy that allows the higher god to view the lower god and his world as fiction and edit it as it seems fit. This is R>F difference and...
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higher dimensional existence?
Magi's HDE Removal (Part 2 of ???? HDE Removals)
This should be more straightforward. Magi characters like Sinbad and the other gods have HDE due to the fact that they are part of the god's hierarchy, a hierarchy that allows the higher god to view the lower god and his world as fiction and edit it as it seems fit. This is R>F difference and...vsbattles.com
thanksAcausality/EE/regeneration for Sinbad
After the new justification, I have a question about this. Sinbad: (Type 4; as a Singularity, Sinbad is born with a vast amount of Magoi and is capable of deviating from fate and “feel” fate. He is also halfway Fallen into Depravity) This is not Acausality type 4. Acausality (Type 4; as a...
Lormac_CC
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Rukh are pure existence and are the basic unit of the spirit. After a person dies, they become one with God. God is the source of rukh. His body is also make of Rukh. He is the cause of everything that happens in creation including the thought of human. Creation is a story and God is the author of that story. Characters in a story can't harm their author. The Rukh exists in all things. There are higher worlds/gods above God. Everything that occurs in a lower world is controlled by the higher world. It is like a script written.
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I remember that the idea that inhabitants of a world of a superior God are an additional layer of transcendence was rejected. Do you think that if a thread were actually made about this, it would be accepted?
Lormac_CC
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I don't remember the CRT.
Lormac_CC
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Yes. It would. We can use the size of the small world illah created. It had countless dimensions and a universe. It was smaller than regular humans. Keep in mind the difference between that world and Aladdin world isn't even reality fiction.
Lormac_CC
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I don't plan on doing anything yet
