Madara Uchiha vs. Sosuke Aizen

[KillitwithC4]

Should we really say that butterfly aizen has hax? Cause he never showcased any hax when he fought ichigo and he never showed off his kyoga suigetsu, otherwise he wouldn't have a hard time trying to harm ichigo. I would say madara since I don't see aizen finding out about his limbo.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Should be able to heal injuries with large wounds. That is besides the fact that he has a plethora of weapons and techniques to put Aizen down and win with time out.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Should we really say that butterfly aizen has hax? Cause he never showcased any hax when he fought ichigo and he never showed off his kyoga suigetsu, otherwise he wouldn't have a hard time trying to harm ichigo. I would say madara since I don't see aizen finding out about his limbo.

IIRC Ichigo was unaffected by the Kyoka Suigetsu for some reason, but I'll need someone with better knowledge on it.

 

[LordAizenSama]

what weapons or techniques do you mean? nothing besides PS is scratching him here. And Aizen can win simply by being in his proximity. not even considering. his Bakudo,Hado or Zanpakuto.

And people keeping saying limbo wins, yet it won't scratch Aizen. Read madaras profile.

 

[Zensum]

How is Madara avoiding KS again, just wonderin.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

what weapons or techniques do you mean? nothing besides PS is scratching him here. And Aizen can win simply by being in his proximity. not even considering. his Bakudo,Hado or Zanpakuto.
And people keeping saying limbo wins, yet it won't scratch Aizen. Read madaras profile.

He can disrupt his chakra and immobilize him using Black Receivers, he can knock him unconcious using Wood Release pollen, or suck his chakra until he's down with Wood Dragon or seal him with Chibaku Tensei.

How is Madara avoiding KS again, just wonderin.

Madara can sense him using Sage Mode

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Here is Third Raikage impaled by his own hand, he also suffered the same self-inflicted wound when battling Hachibi and fell on his own hand.

That's Naruto rasengan going through his arm and chest. Also, physical=\= jutsus.

Also here's shown that Rasen Shuriken can greatly damage the body of it's user. Chapter 346 Page 13 and Page 14.

That Jutsu was imcomplete as when Naruto master the jutsu, it never hurt his hand again proving my point.

Even if these examples didn't exist, the idea itself that someone won't be damaged by his own technique is completely illogical.

No, it isn't is totally logical. Naruto wouldn't be the first.

The key word being partially, that won't stop him. And Hado 90 has a great casting time and Madara will intercept it while Aizen is still reciting his poem. Not to mention he also has Gravity Manipulation and can break free.


Yes, it will. As shown in the manga. Itcan be stop by black routers. That won't be a problem, Aizen has shown to cast Hado 90 without Incantation in seconds, it was bigger and he can shoot it with him inside of it receiving no harm what so ever.

 

[Zensum]

How is Madara avoiding KS again, just wonderin.

Madara can sense him using Sage Mode

Sage Mode is just enhancing the senses he already has which KS has shown to completly control. Sage Mode sensing doesnt even help under mid tier genjustu.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Should we really say that butterfly aizen has hax? Cause he never showcased any hax when he fought ichigo and he never showed off his kyoga suigetsu, otherwise he wouldn't have a hard time trying to harm ichigo. I would say madara since I don't see aizen finding out about his limbo.

When fighting Yhwach, Aizen said he didn't put Ichigo under Kyoga suigetsu. Giving that he can still use it in a later form, he can still use it in monster form if he wants too.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Aizen's reiatsu acts as a barrier around him, the black rods will disintergrate before it touches Aizen. It will also likely stop the Pollen in the same way

And these moves you're listing take time to use, whilst LITERALLY all Aizen has to do is teleport to him and any sort of contact and Madara is done.

Normally this argument is looked down upon, however with Madara's trash Durability roughly a 100,000th that of Aizens Power here and Madara's not even noteworthy regen, it becomes fairgame.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

That's Naruto rasengan going through his arm and chest. Also, physical=\= jutsus.

Also here's shown that Rasen Shuriken can greatly damage the body of it's user. Chapter 346 Page 13 and Page 14.

That Jutsu was imcomplete as when Naruto master the jutsu, it never hurt his hand again proving my point.

Serisouly? Raikage was impaled twice by his own hand and you're saying it's Naruto's rasengan? His hand was chakra amplified to pierce, without the chakra he wouldn't do anything to himself.

Also Rasen Shuriken wasn't incomplete, it was dangerous to use in point blank because of the damaging effects to the user. Thanks to the Sage Chakra Naruto was to overcome these flaws by learning senjutsu and maintaining it's form and using it as a throwing technique.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Sage Mode is just enhancing the senses he already has which KS has shown to completly control. Sage Mode sensing doesnt even help under mid tier genjustu.

Yes, but Madara is a different case. He was able to detect chakra signatures countries away and fight while having no eyes thanks to his sensory skills.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Seriously? Raikage was impaled twice by his own hand and you're saying it's Naruto's rasengan? His hand was chakra amplified to pierce, without the chakra he wouldn't do anything to himself.

What you show, has Naruto going through his body and hand with the rasengan.

Also Rasen Shuriken wasn't incomplete, it was dangerous to use in point blank because of the damaging effects to the user. Thanks to the Sage Chakra Naruto was to overcome these flaws by learning senjutsu and maintaining it's form and using it as a throwing technique.

Proof that Sage Chakra protects Naruto from the Rasen Shurinken? When was this explain or is just your speculation?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Aizen's reiatsu acts as a barrier around him, the black rods will disintergrate before it touches Aizen. It will also likely stop the Pollen in the same way
And these moves you're listing take time to use, whilst LITERALLY all Aizen has to do is teleport to him and any sort of contact and Madara is done.

Normally this argument is looked down upon, however with Madara's trash Durability roughly a 100,000th that of Aizens Power here and Madara's not even noteworthy regen, it becomes fairgame.

If a fodder like Rangiku won't disintegrate by touching it, neither will Madara. And all of these techniques are chakra amplified, it's not just flower pollen. Also Chibaku Tensei.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

If a fodder like Rangiku won't disintegrate by touching it, neither will Madara. And all of these techniques are chakra amplified, it's not just flower pollen. Also Chibaku Tensei.

LoL Aizen said he lower reiatsu so they wouldn't die. XD

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@HokageMangaVox

Please go and look up Third Raikage's profile. I'm showing you the scans and you refuse something that's right there. And Sage Chakra doesn't protect Naruto, it merely allows him more control over the Shuriken's form, therefore allwoing him to throw it. There's a reason why the RasenShuriken was classified as a Kinjutsu (Forbidden Technique), and that's exactly that.

Madara has shown to have humongous chakra reserves so it won't be a problem for him. Aizen himself stated that battles were between Reiatsu, the one with more of it, would win. Madara and Aizen are very close in chakra/reiatsu reserves.

 

[Zensum]

Sage Mode is just enhancing the senses he already has which KS has shown to completly control. Sage Mode sensing doesnt even help under mid tier genjustu.

Yes, but Madara is a different case. He was able to detect chakra signatures countries away and fight while having no eyes thanks to his sensory skills.

Aizen doesnt have chakra but if we are equalising it with reiatsu. Aizen can alter the reiatsu of his illusions to make it seem and appear to be someone else. Like with toshiro and momo. Distance isnt the problem if his senses are being fooled.

That or he could just cloak his reiatsu compelty like hes done before

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Zensum

His five senses maybe fooled, but his sensory skills won't. Aizen can only manipulate the 5 senses, not other.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Except Rangiku never touched Aizen, and was not the point of the video I linked. I was just showing his staff disintergrating via reiatsu, as it's much clearer to see then the example I eluded to earlier with Aizens Reiryoku/Reiatsu distengrating part of Gins wrist when it brushed Aize , Who has City level dura. far above Madaras. And again, this happened when Aizen was ina lesser form of the one used here.

Chibaku tensei is nice and all (if he can even use it with one rinnegan. lol) but he will never get it off in time. Aizen just has way to many easy, less time consuming options to win here.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Someone like Deva Path could cast Chibaku Tensei fast, Madara won't have much problems either. When he had both his Rinnegans, he could cast several of them, so if he has one, he should be able to cast one at the least.

Also how will Aizen deal with Madara, his clone, Gedo Mazo and possibly Kyubi all at the same time?

 

[LordAizenSama]

I can't help but feel you are overlooking how bad Madaras dura is here, and the ease that Aizen can kill him. Not that Chibaku tensei would either hit Aizen, or kill Aizen anyway with his immortality, Regenerationn and Teleportation.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Madara's base Dura is bad that's true, but his Perfect Susanoo is on par with Aizen. And Aizen has his clone and Gedo Mazo to deal with also.

I'm not saying that Madara would be able to kill Aizen, since his regenerative, but knock him down or trap him in the Chibaku Tensei and win with timeout.

 

[Zensum]

@Zensum
His five senses maybe fooled, but his sensory skills won't. Aizen can only manipulate the 5 senses, not other.

He disrupts senses in general. Not just the 5 which is why he has feats of manipulating reikaku as well.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Zensum

Yamamoto sensed that it was Aizen's reiatsu and got a hold of him. Madara has more sensory skills and those are even more amplified in his Sage Mode.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Perfect Susanoo gets trolled hard by Teleportating inside of it. infact using PS will seal Madaras doom as he has no way out, lol.

Limbo won't hurt Aizen either. Gedo Mazo is a giant target so that's not much of a issue either. again not that Madara could manifest it fast enough before Aizen closes the distance and ends it.

I could use the argument of Kyoka Suigetsu here to, but I honestly feel it's overkill as it is. I still feel this match is a stomp despite these arguments for Madara.

 

[Gear2ndGandalf]

Saying that chakara can't hurt its user is like saying reiastsu or even a rocket launcher can't hurt its user. It is illogical lol.

Anyway, I'll have to go with Aizen on this one as the hogyoku makes him immortal and gives him the power to evolve when he has fear of losing or dying.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Aizen

Well it seems I can't do anything to convince you, and neither can you my friend. Agree to disagree? xD

 

[Zensum]

@Zensum
Yamamoto sensed that it was Aizen's reiatsu and got a hold of him. Madara has more sensory skills and those are even more amplified in his Sage Mode.

He sensed the reiatsu of KS after making contact with the blade which is how he knew it was the real Aizen not aizens reiatsu. Also touching the blade before activation is a counter
. Yama had to to get stabbed to do this

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Also touching the blade before activation is a counter.

Except that it was already activated. The Aizen before Yama dissapeared and appeared behind him and stabbed him.

 

[Gear2ndGandalf]

@Zensum
Yamamoto sensed that it was Aizen's reiatsu and got a hold of him. Madara has more sensory skills and those are even more amplified in his Sage Mode.

He sensed the reiatsu of KS after making contact with the blade which is how he knew it was the real Aizen not aizens reiatsu. Also touching the blade before activation is a counter
. Yama had to to get stabbed to do this

^I agree. In Bleach, one has to touch the blade in order to see the truth. Take Kenpachi vs Tousen as an example. Kenapchi let himself get stabbed and held on to Tousen's blade in order to negate the affects of his zanpakuto's blinding & deafening ability.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I believe Tousen's sword was a bit different. Susumushi(spelling?) could be negated by touching it's hilt.

On Aizen's weakness it says: His Zanpakuto's special ability can be overcome by touching its blade before it is released.

Aizen had already released the sword when he was fighting Yama, and Yama went under it's hypnosis. He was able to get out while sensing the reiatsu coming from the blade, not because KS was dispelled.

Yama says: Is this part of your hypnosis? If it was just what I saw with my eyes or what I felt with my skin, it could very well be. But I'll never fail to recognize the reiatsu of the sword piercing my abdomen.

Meaning he could still be under KS's hypnosis, but recognized the reiatsu and knew it was the real Aizen.

 

[Zensum]

Also touching the blade before activation is a counter.

Except that it was already activated. The Aizen before Yama dissapeared and appeared behind him and stabbed him.

When Yama swung at Aizen KS was on, then he turned KS off as shown when his fake body just disappeared, he then struck yama with KS still off, to which yama confirms

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Aizen
Well it seems I can't do anything to convince you, and neither can you my friend. Agree to disagree? xD

Yes so it would seem, I can agree to this at least

 

[LlamaGod1411]

@HokageMangaVox


The thing with the Raikage, it happened twice.


You could make an argument that the second time it was due to Naruto's Rasengan, but what about the first time(Against the eight tails)?


> Bijuu Dama hurt the Eight Tails.

> Obito has to dodge TsB.

> Kaguya's Gravity Dimension.

> Nagato's random Jutsu.

> Amaterasu's effect on Itachi(Logic).

> Kisame's Water Sharks

> Deidara's C0

> Sasori's Third Kazekage puppet could literally crush Sasori himself.

> Hidan(Not even sure if this should be on the list).

 

[Veilas_Frostmoon]

- Kurama tanked a TBB by Ten-Tails.
Proof? Because Kurama >>all other 6 tail beasts.

-Gyuki tanked it's own TBB.

When has a chakra attack harm his own user in Naruto?!

- Unfortunately, 7 and under lack any significant displays of durability. However, they endured being struck and manhandled by Kurama. Given the immense strength of Kurama, it's worthy of noting.

Which is?

- Also, according to the databook, a limbo clone possesses equal skill and ability to it's user. The fact the limbo clone could repel all nine of the bijuu and send them flying, in a matter of seconds no less, should speak volumes on the strength and speed of Madara when enhanced by senjutsu.

The databooks which said that Tomari is Universal, and Zabusa's friend lightspeed is not reliable. Featless.

- Proof?


Gyuki and Kurama tanking a direct punch.



Kurama tanking a TBB. Although, it did lose six tails.



Gyuki in the epicenter of it's own TBB.


Right after, Gyuki crash landed and Bee remarked half-heartedly, "ouch" or "that's going to leave a mark." in another translation. Of course, it did hurt him. Gyuki can be seen covered in blood and bruises. I can provide that scan if you like.

- Which is?

Are you referring to Kurama's strength? Or the durability displayed by the bijuu when fighting Kurama? I apologize for not understanding.


- The databook which said Temari is Universal

Yikes. I didn't know the databook went that far. Although, there is SOME truth to rinbo clones being comparable to the original. They aren't clones for nothing. In fact, I recall one of them being able to fly like the original Madara during the Juudara part. I'm referring to when Six Paths Naruto attempted to jump up and hit Madara, only for him to call out a limbo clone to block, then repel Naruto with a punch.

So, if anything, that should show that their skills and abilities revolve around Madara's status (which in this case is a lesser form of a senjutsu, and one rinnegan).

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Aizen casted a stronger hado 90 with him inside of it, and he was not harm by his own reiatsu. Neither was Noitra when Nel absorb his attack and through it back at him. Smh.

Also, how can you equal Chakra = reiatsu when reiatsu is not even energy, the energy is called Reiryoku, and reaitsu is just the pressure of the energy use for many different things. Is a extention of the energy not the energy. Aizen wins by reiatsu stomp. He leaves Madara without breath, just like how Yamamoto did with Nanao.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139933/3530654-soul+crush+3.jpg

 

[Zensum]

Aizen casted a stronger hado 90 with him inside of it, and he was not harm by his own reiatsu. Neither was Noitra when Nel absorb his attack and through it back at him. Smh.
Also, how can you equal Chakra = reiatsu when reiatsu is not even energy, the energy is called Reiryoku, and reaitsu is just the pressure of the energy use for many different things. Is a extention of the energy not the energy. Aizen wins by reiatsu stomp. He leaves Madara without breath, just like how Yamamoto did with Nanao.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139933/3530654-soul+crush+3.jpg

I agree people dont seem to get the reiatsu reikaku, reiryoku thing when i explain.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Reiryoku is the spiritual energy. Reiatsu is it's physical manifestation. Reishi are the particles that make Reiryoku. Therefore Reiatsu is a extension of Reiryoku. Reiryoku = Reiatsu = Chakra. Simple as this.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Reiryoku is the spiritual energy. Reiatsu is it's physical manifestation. Reishi are the particles that make Reiryoku. Therefore Reiatsu is a extension of Reiryoku. Reiryoku = Reiatsu = Chakra. Simple as this.

Are you implying thay shockwaves or ki pressure from DBZ = Chakra?

Reiatsu is not a form of energy, but pressure exerted from such energy.

If anything you should equal Reiryoku, not reiatsu. Otherwise people will have to equalize six path chakra as well in every vs match. As reiatsu and six path users only they can be harm by it.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Whatever you wanna call it, the verses are equalized. If Aizen has Reiryoku, Reiatsu or Reishi, then so does Madara. If Madara had chakra then so does Aizen.

You're blatantly disregarding rules about verse equalization and trying to make an argument where there is none.