• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.
irrelevant and Byakugan users do not have clairvoyance
Explain why
You mean teleportation?
Yes
nah it is just mid regen
Which would cover burns, weapon strikes, etc.
first watch naruto the only reason why you will need to send chakra is if the target does not have chakra so this did not happen during obito and minato and only happened in the novel
No? I have read Naruto already which is why I am informed as to what I'm talking about. Literally all genjutsu is yin chakra manipulation. It requires the user use some medium to transfer chakra from the user of said technique, to the recipient of the technique. Which is why genjutsu is a thing as obviously chakra native to the user doesn't begin inside the recipient without some weird Orochimaru style prep. Sharingan users use the light reflected from a sharingan to send the chakra into the recipient's brain just as Shi uses light emitted from his chakra to do so.

All explained by Jiraiya when literally teaching naruto how to defend from genjutsu after meeting Itachi.

Not really.
uhhm no shisu said Mangekyou sharign not "My sharigan" he said "the Mangekyou Sharigan"
What? It is of explicit note in the manga that Shisui's Kotoamatsuki is renowned not only for it's ability to ellicit complete dominance, but also that Shisui didn't need eye contact. Which is what Danzo used to his advantage...The only other instances of sharingan usage we saw from long range was Itachi during the war, and Shisui in the anime filler fighting Hidden Rain ninja. Both genjutsu prodigies. Meanwhile Madara was forced to trap Ei and make eye contact even with his EMS, and we saw Sasuke likewise have 0 shot at genjutsuing Ei, or Killer Bee in V2.
Uhhm The burden of proof is on you that Gojo can stop something he cannot feel or has never seen or felt before you cannot ask us to proof a negative,
and again if genjutsu cannot work then this is a stomp or stalemate lmao, as madara only wincon is genjutsu or wait for Gojo to use domain and infinity goes down in that instant
Okay that's easy.
Gojo has seen and can feel cursed energy.
Sharingan users give off cursed energy in their chakra which is how they unlock the sharingan and is noted by Karin that MS users give off extreme Malice.
Chakra is an energy not native to Gojo.
Cursed energy is inherently not physical while Chakra has both inherent physical and spiritual properties and can typically be interacted with.

Ipso facto, Genjutsu should not be capable of bypassing infinity especially with Gojo's clairvoyance, teleportation, and instagib once his domain activates.
according to this wiki madara is resistant to Gojo Domain
He has resistance to the subtype of power. Not the potency. Even using the gaiden of Itachi, 80 years in some small fraction of a second is still nowhere close to infinity.
 
Explain why
why would the byakugan users have clairvoyance? Enhanced eye sight =/= clairvoyance
No? I have read Naruto already which is why I am informed as to what I'm talking about. Literally all genjutsu is yin chakra manipulation. It requires the user use some medium to transfer chakra from the user of said technique, to the recipient of the technique. Which is why genjutsu is a thing as obviously chakra native to the user doesn't begin inside the recipient without some weird Orochimaru style prep. Sharingan users use the light reflected from a sharingan to send the chakra into the recipient's brain just as Shi uses light emitted from his chakra to do so.

All explained by Jiraiya when literally teaching naruto how to defend from genjutsu after meeting Itachi.
Dude, no one is arguing this, the only time you need to inject chakra into your opponent is if your opponent has not chakra
What? It is of explicit note in the manga that Shisui's Kotoamatsuki is renowned not only for it's ability to ellicit complete dominance, but also that Shisui didn't need eye contact. Which is what Danzo used to his advantage...The only other instances of sharingan usage we saw from long range was Itachi during the war, and Shisui in the anime filler fighting Hidden Rain ninja. Both genjutsu prodigies. Meanwhile Madara was forced to trap Ei and make eye contact even with his EMS, and we saw Sasuke likewise have 0 shot at genjutsuing Ei, or Killer Bee in V2.
Dude who said anything about long range? the itachi novel is canon and it was stated that the sharigan allows you to input chakra into your opponent eyes not the kotoamatsukami. and when madara put Ay under genjutsu it was a three tomoe sharigan
Ipso facto, Genjutsu should not be capable of bypassing infinity especially with Gojo's clairvoyance, teleportation, and instagib once his domain activates.
Dude again how is this relevant? also Gojo can see beneath the blindfold as it was already stated
and again curse energy is not chakra, what madara will be injecting is chakra not his own emotions tf is this
He has resistance to the subtype of power. Not the potency. Even using the gaiden of Itachi, 80 years in some small fraction of a second is still nowhere close to infinity.
Dude this is a joke right? so you are telling me processing 80 yrs worth of info in 0.000000000001 sec is less impressive than half a year in 0.2 sec? tell me you are joking.
 
Dude, no one is arguing this, the only time you need to inject chakra into your opponent is if your opponent has not chakra
Everyone in Naruto has chakra, this was stated by Naruto in Boruto and it's a logical conclusion using other things we know about the verse

Anyway, Gojo FRA
 
Everyone in Naruto has chakra, this was stated by Naruto in Boruto and it's a logical conclusion using other things we know about the verse
You took that out of context tho, everyone can have chakra not everyone has chakra, you still need to learn how to knead your physical and spiritual energy together to use the said chakra
 
You took that out of context tho, everyone can have chakra not everyone has chakra, you still need to learn how to knead your physical and spiritual energy together to use the said chakra
No, I'll quote Naruto verbatim

"Chakra is something that exists inside of everyone"

To exist is to currently be there, not be there in the future when you knead chakra.
 
No, I'll quote Naruto verbatim

"Chakra is something that exists inside of everyone"

To exist is to currently be there, not be there in the future when you knead chakra.
and you took it out of context, like kawaki just literally said i cannot use chakra before naruto said that is not true. and yes all kawaki needs is to learn how to knead chakra, which is what was called ninja training which is what he did and boom he know uses naruto signature move
 
and you took it out of context, like kawaki just literally said i cannot use chakra before naruto said that is not true. and yes all kawaki needs is to learn how to knead chakra, which is what was called ninja training which is what he did and boom he know uses naruto signature move
I didn't take anything out of context, Naruto clearly stated that chakra exists inside of everyone, not that it will exist if they learn to create it, Naruto doesn't once state there that Kawaki needs to learn to create chakra by kneading it, he just verbatim says it already exists in everyone.

You just have a terrible interpretation of Naruto's pretty clear statement, besides, not once has it ever been shown or stated that a human exists without chakra post Hagoromo spreading it.
 
I didn't take anything out of context, Naruto clearly stated that chakra exists inside of everyone, not that it will exist if they learn to create it, Naruto doesn't once state there that Kawaki needs to learn to create chakra by kneading it, he just verbatim says it already exists in everyone.

You just have a terrible interpretation of Naruto's pretty clear statement, besides, not once has it ever been shown or stated that a human exists without chakra post Hagoromo spreading it.
Ah okay i guess it is time again, anyway i will explain

This is from shikamaru novel
“I’m asking another.” Gengo sharply cut him off. “Shinobi hold a power different from all other humans in this world. Do you agree?”
Chakra and ninjutsu....
“Don’t you think the reason all the fighting hasn’t stopped is because the daimyou are governing everything, instead of shinobi? Because these people who hold neither chakra nor jutsu keep meeting together, every time they pass by each other, these wars never end. Because they have no extraordinary people among them, there is no country which is stronger than all the others, and thus no one to keep them in check. So the countries keep fighting and reconciling, again and again, and this world of war continues.
NOW SCANS FROM THE NARUTO MANGA
i mean this was mentioned several times in the manga

1.
ueIMvPT.jpeg


this is Pa

2.

GWRkr4o.jpg



TMJyq7p.jpeg



this was the earliest explanation of how chakra is created.

Like i said although everyone can indeed utilize chakra they need to learn how to use the weaponized form of it also i should note many times, spiritual energy, life force and energies in general are called chakra.
you need to learn how to knead chakra(mix physical and spiritual energy together) to create chakra for Ninjutsu and Genjutsu something ninjas are taught.
 
I'll just point out that if genjutsu doesn't work here, Itachi and Obito's matchups from the Gojo's profile should be removed, as genjutsu was their only wincon.
 
Ah okay i guess it is time again, anyway i will explain

This is from shikamaru novel

NOW SCANS FROM THE NARUTO MANGA
i mean this was mentioned several times in the manga

1.

this is Pa

2.

this was the earliest explanation of how chakra is created.

Like i said although everyone can indeed utilize chakra they need to learn how to use the weaponized form of it also i should note many times, spiritual energy, life force and energies in general are called chakra.
you need to learn how to knead chakra(mix physical and spiritual energy together) to create chakra for Ninjutsu and Genjutsu something ninjas are taught.
The Shikamaru novel that wasn't written by Masashi Kishimoto and is secondary to the source material, that being the Boruto manga, even if we assume the Shikamaru novel is canon which is quite questionable.

Kneading chakra allows you to create more and utilize it for jutsu etc, that doesn't contradict what Naruto said about how everyone has chakra within them from the get go.

None of the stuff you just posted disproves Naruto's statement that chakra exists within everyone.
 
Dude this is a joke right? so you are telling me processing 80 yrs worth of info in 0.000000000001 sec is less impressive than half a year in 0.2 sec? tell me you are joking.
I'm only here to clear a misconception but Gojo's 0.2 domain is him using a completely watered down version of the actual technique which inputs infinite information rather than half year.
 
The Shikamaru novel that wasn't written by Masashi Kishimoto and is secondary to the source material, that being the Boruto manga, even if we assume the Shikamaru novel is canon which is quite questionable.
It is canon tho and treated as canon
Kneading chakra allows you to create more and utilize it for jutsu etc,
uhhm no like read the scans i sent manga scans
that doesn't contradict what Naruto said about how everyone has chakra within them from the get go.
of course they just need to combine their energies together to weaponize them that is the chakra i am referring to, as that was not the original basis of chakra, chakra was created to connect everyone spiritual energy together instead they connected it with their physical energy to weaponize it, that weaponized form is what everyone dont have and nothing contradicts each other as kawaki could also not weaponize chakra until he was also taught
None of the stuff you just posted disproves Naruto's statement that chakra exists within everyone.
i never said it did as naruto is right you just took it out of context to mean everyone walks around with weaponized chakra which is wrong
I'm only here to clear a misconception but Gojo's 0.2 domain is him using a completely watered down version of the actual technique which inputs infinite information rather than half year.
you will need a scan for that
Hence the "if it doesn't work".
oh i get but like i said already
With SBA, madara does not need to inject chakra into gojo brain so GG
without SBA Gojo cannot sense chakra so cannot stop it again GG
.
 
why would the byakugan users have clairvoyance? Enhanced eye sight =/= clairvoyance
"The term clairvoyance is generally defined as the ability to gain information about an object, person, location or physical event through extrasensory perception."

Byakugan users and Gojo can "see" things outside of the normal scope of vision, which is why they can see things without directly staring at them or in their direction. It's a similar concept to scrying.
Dude, no one is arguing this, the only time you need to inject chakra into your opponent is if your opponent has not chakra
No clue what this means. I broke down the gnejutsu mechanics for you already.
Genjutsu user -> Yink chakra from their body/mind -> Some physical medium (light w/ Shi, sound with Tatuya, Eye contact with Uchiha's, etc) -> The person the genjutsu is being used on brain -> desired mental manipulation.

The only exceptions are environment-based illusions which affect the environment and not the direct perception of another person, like the one kotetsu used on the genin in pt. 1, or bushin no jutsu.
Dude who said anything about long range? the itachi novel is canon and it was stated that the sharigan allows you to input chakra into your opponent eyes not the kotoamatsukami. and when madara put Ay under genjutsu it was a three tomoe sharigan
Long range aka not within eye contact distance.

Yes, all sharingan have to inject chakra into the opponent to manipulate them. That's what I've been saying, and why the chakra would be stopped by Infinity. Kotoamatsuki is specifically heralded because it does not need direct eye contact. The whole defensive approach against Uchiha has always been partner method or not looking into the eyes like Gai. This is because it needs eye contact. Not sure how to put it any more clearly.

Also this is not 3 tomoe
Dude again how is this relevant? also Gojo can see beneath the blindfold as it was already stated
and again curse energy is not chakra, what madara will be injecting is chakra not his own emotions tf is this
Gojo being able to see doesn't change anything. Uchiha need a direct glare on glare in order to activate their genjutsu. Which means they can't cast it without looking directly into someone's eyes.

Cursed energy is still an energy. Chakra isn't going to be special and magically bypass infinity when it working on cursed energy proves it can do so not only to physical things but parapsychological as well.

And once again, Uchiha emotions are directly tied to their sharingan. See Tobirama's explanation, and pretty much every lore detail behind the progression of the sharingan. This being something a sensor like Karin easily picked up on.

Dude this is a joke right? so you are telling me processing 80 yrs worth of info in 0.000000000001 sec is less impressive than half a year in 0.2 sec? tell me you are joking.
Because being trapped in the domain move used vs Jogo is not the same as the feat you are referencing. The feat you are referencing was Gojo's own experience based on memories flooding into him, which was based on context, not utilizing the realm of infinity to flood infinite knowledge directly into someone.
80 years worth of information in .2 sec is hilariously < infinite information.
 
Last edited:
It is canon tho and treated as canon
Since when? I've never seen the novel used here and again, even if it were canon, it's still second to the manga which clearly states that chakra exists in everyone.
uhhm no like read the scans i sent manga scans
I read them multiple times, Naruto says "chakra exists inside of everyone" not "spiritual and physical energy separately exist inside of everyone and they can use that to make chakra", at worst, the Boruto manga retconned it since it's the latest source of information.
of course they just need to combine their energies together to weaponize them that is the chakra i am referring to, as that was not the original basis of chakra, chakra was created to connect everyone spiritual energy together instead they connected it with their physical energy to weaponize it, that weaponized form is what everyone dont have and nothing contradicts each other as kawaki could also not weaponize chakra until he was also taught
They have chakra flowing through their chakra network, that's all that matters, it doesn't matter if they can't use it for jutsu etc without training because not only is that irrelevant to genjutsu working on them, but it was never something I argued.
i never said it did as naruto is right you just took it out of context to mean everyone walks around with weaponized chakra which is wrong
"weaponized chakra", what does this even mean? You literally just created this, it's not a thing.

Every single human in Naruto has chakra flowing through their chakra network, whether or not they're able to "weaponize" it or whatever is irrelevant to my argument.
 
"The term clairvoyance is generally defined as the ability to gain information about an object, person, location or physical event through extrasensory perception."

Byakugan users and Gojo can "see" things outside of the normal scope of vision, which is why they can see things without directly staring at them or in their direction. It's a similar concept to scrying.

No clue what this means. I broke down the gnejutsu mechanics for you already.
Genjutsu user -> Yink chakra from their body/mind -> Some physical medium (light w/ Shi, sound with Tatuya, Eye contact with Uchiha's, etc) -> The person the genjutsu is being used on brain -> desired mental manipulation.

The only exceptions are environment-based illusions which affect the environment and not the direct perception of another person, like the one kotetsu used on the genin in pt. 1, or bushin no jutsu.

Long range aka not within eye contact distance.

Yes, all sharingan have to inject chakra into the opponent to manipulate them. That's what I've been saying, and why the chakra would be stopped by Infinity. Kotoamatsuki is specifically heralded because it does not need direct eye contact. The whole defensive approach against Uchiha has always been partner method or not looking into the eyes like Gai. This is because it needs eye contact. Not sure how to put it any more clearly.

Also this is not 3 tomoe

Gojo being able to see doesn't change anything. Uchiha need a direct glare on glare in order to activate their genjutsu. Which means they can't cast it without looking directly into someone's eyes.

Cursed energy is still an energy. Chakra isn't going to be special and magically bypass infinity when it working on cursed energy proves it can do so not only to physical things but parapsychological as well.

And once again, Uchiha emotions are directly tied to their sharingan. See Tobirama's explanation, and pretty much every lore detail behind the progression of the sharingan. This being something a sensor like Karin easily picked up on.


Because being trapped in the domain move used vs Jogo is not the same as the feat you are referencing. The feat you are referencing was Gojo's own experience based on memories flooding into him, which was based on context, not utilizing the realm of infinity to flood infinite knowledge directly into someone.
80 years worth of information in .2 sec is hilariously < infinite information.
Too tired to reply point by point just going to mention few things quickly
1. Sharigan genjutsu is not curse energy dude wtf is this? what they are projecting is chakra and chakra is not cursed energy unless you are using SBA here which then means madara does not need to project chakra into his brain has it already exist there but without it gojo is not stopping chakra with infinity
2. the only reason you need to inject chakra into your opponent brain is if your opponent does not have chakra but if they do you are simply manipulating the existing chakra
3. it is 80 years worth of info in 0.000000000001 sec >>>> half a year in 0.2
also stated in the profile when you click the scans 0.2 in a year it was literally explained in the manga that a human experience half a year worth of info in 0.2 sec in the domain
Since when? I've never seen the novel used here and again, even if it were canon, it's still second to the manga which clearly states that chakra exists in everyone.

I read them multiple times, Naruto says "chakra exists inside of everyone" not "spiritual and physical energy separately exist inside of everyone and they can use that to make chakra", at worst, the Boruto manga retconned it since it's the latest source of information.

They have chakra flowing through their chakra network, that's all that matters, it doesn't matter if they can't use it for jutsu etc without training because not only is that irrelevant to genjutsu working on them, but it was never something I argued.

"weaponized chakra", what does this even mean? You literally just created this, it's not a thing.

Every single human in Naruto has chakra flowing through their chakra network, whether or not they're able to "weaponize" it or whatever is irrelevant to my argument.
i will end it with this
Hagoromo dispersed his chakra amongst the population of the world, in hopes of everyone binding their mental energies together and forming a harmonious synergy. However, the people instead chakra as a tool to link their own physical and mental energies, weaponizing it into ninjutsu. everyone in the world at this point possesses chakra; however, they do not have the power to control it and utilize it in the same way that ninja or samurai can which is kneading it together to form the one used for ninjutsu and genjutsu.
 
i will end it with this
Hagoromo dispersed his chakra amongst the population of the world, in hopes of everyone binding their mental energies together and forming a harmonious synergy. However, the people instead chakra as a tool to link their own physical and mental energies, weaponizing it into ninjutsu. everyone in the world at this point possesses chakra; however, they do not have the power to control it and utilize it in the same way that ninja or samurai can which is kneading it together to form the one used for ninjutsu and genjutsu.
Thanks for proving my argument I guess, we agree then that everyone in Naruto has chakra by default, and thus, there has never been an instance of genjutsu working on a human that doesn't have chakra.
 
Thanks for proving my argument I guess, we agree then that everyone in Naruto has chakra by default, and thus, there has never been an instance of genjutsu working on a human that doesn't have chakra.
Sigh and Sigh again well believe what you will i guess but like i said everyone indeed have chakra but not everyone can weaponize it
 
Sigh and Sigh again well believe what you will i guess but like i said everyone indeed have chakra but not everyone can weaponize it
Good so then we agree, because I never once said that all humans can use their chakra offensively, I just said that all humans in Naruto have chakra by default.
 
People literaly trying to compared the watered down domain of gojo to the full thing

The watered down version was used by hik to try to put the least amount of info and damage on people around him

His true domain as explain on chapter 15, is literaly putting infinite amount of info on the enemy
 
also stated in the profile when you click the scans 0.2 in a year it was literally explained in the manga that a human experience half a year worth of info in 0.2 sec in the domain

Where is it ever stated in that scan that humans will always experience 0.2 seconds of half a year's worth of information?

The scan literally says that Gojo estimated that a human could survive 0.2 seconds in the void and it states that he came up with it on the spot.

This is like arguing regular genjutsu is on the level of infinite tsukiyomi
 
People literaly trying to compared the watered down domain of gojo to the full thing

The watered down version was used by hik to try to put the least amount of info and damage on people around him

His true domain as explain on chapter 15, is literaly putting infinite amount of info on the enemy
Nope, i have no idea why Unlimited Void would put infinite info inside the target:
  1. He expanded his domain for a fraction of time, a fraction of infinite should still be infinite, this is already against it being infinite information
  2. Jogo uses "never ending" to describe the amount of information and Gojo himself says it is being forced "repeatedly".
Even the "watered down" is only ever stated to be different in the duration not the info (it even has the exact same name and activation), it's stated that the amount of info (6 months) and the timeframe (0,2s) are a a intuitive guess/rough estimative, meaning it comes from the understanding of his own domain and isn't a set rule of the "watered down version".


Also, this fight is a stomp if genjutsu doesn't work, IMO this thread should just be closed.
 
Nope, i have no idea why Unlimited Void would put infinite info inside the target:
  1. He expanded his domain for a fraction of time, a fraction of infinite should still be infinite, this is already against it being infinite information
  2. Jogo uses "never ending" to describe the amount of information and Gojo himself says it is being forced "repeatedly".
Even the "watered down" is only ever stated to be different in the duration not the info (it even has the exact same name and activation), it's stated that the amount of info (6 months) and the timeframe (0,2s) are a a intuitive guess/rough estimative, meaning it comes from the understanding of his own domain and isn't a set rule of the "watered down version".


Also, this fight is a stomp if genjutsu doesn't work, IMO this thread should just be closed.
https://cdn.*****************.com/file/mangap/2085/10015000/15.jpg

"Perception, communication, the actions you take in life are force upon you infinitely. Ironic isn't it given everything but unable to do anything but die slowly"
 
https://cdn.*****************.com/file/mangap/2085/10015000/15.jpg

"Perception, communication, the actions you take in life are force upon you infinitely. Ironic isn't it given everything but unable to do anything but die slowly"
Infinitely isn't the same as infinite, for example, a infinitely branching multiverse will never get from 2B to 2A.
 
If madara wants to use genjutsu you see the eye and you are hypnotized its dosent actually have a travel/combat speed. Its not going from point A to B like this thread is implying. You cant block or outrun a sharingan GJ because its "traveling" to u
 
False comparison, that's a greater degree of Infinity which Gojo doesn't use or function on.
Infinitely increasing AP will never go from 3A to H3A, infinitely increasing data will never go from 1TB to infinite bytes, is the comparison valid now?

in·fi·nite·ly
/ˈinfənətlē/
adverb
"to an infinite extent or amount; without limit."
Ok, so let's just get the original text and see what word is there, because the page you are using to get the "infinitely" is the same i got "repeatedly", and this doesn't mean anything to the other points i made.
 
If madara wants to use genjutsu you see the eye and you are hypnotized its dosent actually have a travel/combat speed. Its not going from point A to B like this thread is implying. You cant block or outrun a sharingan GJ because its "traveling" to u
Genjutsu does travel, it still needs a medium and unless it's stated to lack a travel distance then we don't assume as much. They do still need to inject chakra into the brain or the nervous system of the opponent, which would be impossible when your opponents entire body is hidden and shielded by infinite space.


I.E Genjutsu still needs to somehow enter Gojo's body to implant chakra, which it can't do due to Gojo's body being protected by infinite space.
 
Infinitely increasing AP will never go from 3A to H3A, infinitely increasing data will never go from 1TB to infinite bytes, is the comparison valid now?
No because Gojo's domain is him inserting infinite knowledge into his victim, the timeframe of his Domain is irrelevant as he only used what was needed out of it. Infinitely increasing AP wouldn't go from 3-A to High 3-A because High 3-A requires the destruction of an infinite amount of one thing.
 
You mean 12 years old itachi that can process 80 years worth of information in a pico second? lol Gojo domain pales in comparison
lol gojo can send infinite information inside ur brain. tsukuyomi cant even compare to gojo domain. gojo choose 6 month information in Shibuya because human only can support 6 month information but need to rest 2 months. gojo stated "this level of domain,special grade can wake up any moment" while he make it infinite information when fighting jogo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top